Danny Boy's Mk4 Build - Putting the project on hold for a while...

[edwardb]

Got it, Paul, makes sense. I'd do and recommend the same thing in that case.

Just a real quick additional comment I should have explained more clearly. In the Coyote system, the fuse and wire to the PDB in this case handles much more than just the PCM. It's powering the entire Coyote system and is the single source of power. Includes everything -- fuel pump, cooling fan, throttle body, DBW, injectors, coils, O2 sensors, PCM, etc. You get the idea. Inside the PDB are the appropriate fuses, and in some cases relays, for the individual circuits. If you add up the ratings for all the currents in the PDB I'm guessing it could get close to the 250 amps. I'm assuming our friendly engineers at Ford did the math. Since it's extremely unlikely all would be drawing at full current at the same time, the 250 amps does seem a bit overkill. But that's obviously what they chose.

[John Ibele]

Good background. And along the way, answered all the questions I wasn't going to pollute Dan's build thread or confuse Coyote owners with. Wayyy more going on in RUN mode than I suspected. Thanks for educating a non-Coyote builder!

[facultyofmusic]

Just a real quick additional comment I should have explained more clearly. In the Coyote system, the fuse and wire to the PDB in this case handles much more than just the PCM. It's powering the entire Coyote system and is the single source of power. Includes everything -- fuel pump, cooling fan, throttle body, DBW, injectors, coils, O2 sensors, PCM, etc. You get the idea. Inside the PDB are the appropriate fuses, and in some cases relays, for the individual circuits. If you add up the ratings for all the currents in the PDB I'm guessing it could get close to the 250 amps. I'm assuming our friendly engineers at Ford did the math. Since it's extremely unlikely all would be drawing at full current at the same time, the 250 amps does seem a bit overkill. But that's obviously what they chose.

Thanks for the clarifications Paul!

[facultyofmusic]

Good background. And along the way, answered all the questions I wasn't going to pollute Dan's build thread or confuse Coyote owners with. Wayyy more going on in RUN mode than I suspected. Thanks for educating a non-Coyote builder!

Hey no worries John! Keep the questions coming. The more answers we have the better for the future builder who reads this thread. About the fuse, yes I've both talked about it IRL with fellow builders and seen it being discussed on the forums. Can't imagine that 250A ever getting maxed out.

[facultyofmusic]

In post #132 I discussed the new parking brake handle location. Earlier during my build the parking brake was on the passenger side trans tunnel, but I've since then moved it to the driver side. After staring at it for a few days, I decided to finalize its placement. It's time to finish the parking brake!

I decided to purchase the wilwood universal parking brake cable kit. Why? Because...

• The FFR provided brake lines had mustang style line-ends that didn't play well with the wilwood parking brake. There's a little adapter for it, but I don't like how it looks.
• The clip that secures the FFR provided cable in place is REALLY FREAKING HARD TO TAKE OUT once its in. I had to contort my hands in awful ways just to press all the tabs at the same time so I could un-mount it. I never want to do that ever again.
• The wilwood parking brake kit offers a great mounting solution that's adjustable and versatile.
• The Lokar cable clamp that I see in pretty much every other build is no where to be found. Every place has it out of stock. The wilwood parking brake cable kit comes with it as a part of the kit.

So in the end it was a no brainer. The package came in the mail a few days later.

I started by making a mounting plate for the cable mounting bracket. I took a strip of steel, cut it down to a length that would span the trans tunnel truss structure and hold the bracket in place. I only drilled the bottom hole and used clamps to secure to top so I can adjust the bracket-to-handle angle after the handle is mounted.
cable_bracket_mount00002.jpg cable_bracket_mount00003.jpg cable_bracket_mount00001.jpg

I then routed the cables from the calipers to the driver side trans tunnel by going behind the diff, over the top of the diff, then back down the front of the diff. The pictures should make more sense:
cable_route00002.jpg cable_route00003.jpg cable_route00004.jpg cable_route00001.jpg

I secured the parking brake handle to the trans tunnel's top-driver-side-beam by drilling an opening on top of the beam just big enough to fit my 1/2in socket and a hole at the bottom of the beam for the bolt from the handle itself. The holes will get covered up once the trans tunnel cover goes on the car.
handle_mount00002.jpg handle_mount00001.jpg handle_mount00003.jpg

To be honest I'm slightly worried about the structural integrity of the beam now that I've pretty much cut away one side of it. I don't think it's a big load-bearing beam so it should be ok. If you think otherwise, please do let me know.

[facultyofmusic]

Here's what the mounted handle assembly looks like:
handle_mount.jpg handle_mount00004.jpg

With the bracket, cables, and handle now in place I connected the cables to the clevis and clamp. Before securing everything I made sure to mark the correct length of cable sleeve and cable I wanted with masking tape and cut it to length using an angle-grinder and a cutting wheel. The cable sleeve has a metal coil core so a normal clamp type cutter won't work. With the cables attached I played around with the angle of the mounting plate to ensure the cable comes out of the bracket as straight as possible.
cables_connected00003.jpg cables_connected00001.jpg cables_connected00002.jpg

I was pretty happy with the results! The parking brake engages/disengages smoothly and everything seems to be working out. That is, until I noticed the steel strip I used to mount the bracket twisting as I engage the brake. The handle is able to exert quite a lot of force on bracket, causing the bracket to pull and flex. Since the parking brake is the only thing preventing my car from rolling down a hill, I want to make sure it's as solid and secure as possible. The steel strip is strong, but not enough to satisfy my paranoid brain.

I took a pencil and sketched over the truss structure around the mounting bracket to get an impression of where the beams are. With this I then devised a triangle-ish shape that would allow me to make more points of security with the frame. With a piece of steel my buddy had lying around, we cut out a piece in the shape of the template. It's much, MUCH more solid compared to that strip of steel I was using before.
20220128_194700.jpg cable_mount_plate00002.jpg

Using the old mounting steel strip I transferred the holes onto the new mounting plate. Instead of using rivets I opted for stainless steel bolts. The results were excellent. I pulled the parking brake as hard as I can and the thing didn't budge a hair!
cable_mount_plate00003.jpg cable_mount_plate00001.jpg

[facultyofmusic]

After persuading myself that I'm finally satisfied with the parking brake setup I disassembled everything again... to paint it of course! These components are bare steel and will for sure corrode over time without some kind of protection.

I bought a wire-wheel and let it work over every component of the parking brake handle assembly and mounting bracket. After roughing up the surface I cleaned them with acetone to remove any oil and residue. The paint I used is Rust-oleum's "High Performance Enamel" in black. This stuff is pretty darn strong on a well prepped surface. Not as good as power-coat, but what we need here is protection, not looks. Enamel will do just fine.
pointing_components00001.jpg pointing_components00004.jpg pointing_components00002.jpg pointing_components00003.jpg

I left the components outside to dry for 2 nights before reassembling them together:
final_assembly00001.jpg final_assembly00002.jpg
Lookin good!

To end it all off I cut out a long hole in the trans tunnel for the e-brake handle to pass through and installed the tunnel cover.
DRUM ROLL PLEASE!

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... and that's it! The parking brake is officially done. This part of my build is probably the biggest deviation from FFR's instructions so far but hey, it's freakin sweet.

[facultyofmusic]

Remember the little cardboard box from post #152 and #153?

I've been looking around my box of scrap metals and there just isn't a sheet of aluminum big enough to replicate the cardboard plan, so I decided to make it from two halves. One half covers the driver side and bottom, another half covers the front and passenger side. There's an advantage to doing it in two halves too. I have make one half easily disassembled to provide access to ignition panel wiring while the other half stays in place to anchor down any loose wiring. Why not?

Using the same dimensions, I draw out the plans on 2 sheets of scrap aluminum that were JUST big enough for each of the two halves, got super lucky on this one.
plans.jpg

Then using my humble little vise press-brake I bent the folded the sheets at the designated folding points. One disadvantage here is that my press-brake can only bend a sheet of metal 90 degrees; no more than that. I ended up using a small hammer to form the metal tab. It's a really fun experience actually.
press_brake.jpg

Here's what the two halves look like. They fit together surprisingly well.
two_halves00001.jpg two_halves00002.jpg

I used some masking tape to tape the two halves together an voila! A nice little box!
completed_box00001.jpg completed_box00004.jpg completed_box00005.jpg completed_box00003.jpg completed_box00002.jpg

[facultyofmusic]

Secured the ignition control panel onto the aluminum box and mounted it in place. The key cylinder wires are the perfect length for it too!
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Here's what it looks like with the dash mounted.
20220206_185753.jpg 20220206_185927.jpg

[John Ibele]

Nice work with the aluminum origami - good vision and well carried out. And the press brake vice looks really handy. I hadn't seen that tool. I've gotten a lot out my cheapie HF press brake, but for doing shorter length bends that vice break has real advantages if you don't have a box break. I'm often stuck with how to do that second 'in a corner' bend. Thanks for the tip!

[Blitzboy54]

Secured the ignition control panel onto the aluminum box and mounted it in place. The key cylinder wires are the perfect length for it too!
20220206_173101.jpg 20220206_173319.jpg 20220206_174944.jpg 20220206_174952.jpg

Here's what it looks like with the dash mounted.
20220206_185753.jpg 20220206_185927.jpg

I love this, what are you planning with the extra switches?

[facultyofmusic]

I love this, what are you planning with the extra switches?

Thanks dude! I'm planning to use this ignition panel to substitute the key cylinder as well as some other toggles that I won't need to touch very often when driving (such as a seat heater if I'll ever have one). I won't have a key for my build and will eventually install a "proximity sensor" that closes a master relay when I'm close enough to the car.

I just like the idea of turning on toggle switches so much more than turning a key. Just my preference :P

More info on the planning for this panel can be found in post #152.

[facultyofmusic]

Something I haven't thought much about so far is the hydraulic clutch line and the route to take. I got my Gen 3 Coyote + T56 Magnum package from FFR. The package came with the hydraulic throw-out bearing pre-installed and two -3AN lines coming out of the bell housing.
20220207_175730.jpg 20220207_175740.jpg

From reading the other build threads I've gathered the following advice:

• Use a clip to ensure the lines don't wiggle into the bell housing. They maybe chewed up by the clutch.
• Don't use the 90 degree NPT to inverted-flare fitting that came with the wilwood MC kit. Just use a 1/8in NPT to -3AN fitting.
• Use a -3AN bleeder valve on one of the -3AN lines that comes out of the bell housing.

As for the route, I plan to go horizontally from the clutch MC directly towards the firewall side of the driver footwell, put a 90 degree -3AN elbow through the firewall and direct the line downwards where it will meet with the lines from the bell housing.

Component list starting from the 1/8 NPT output of the wilwood MC to the -3AN male input of the clutch slave line.

• 1/8 NPT to -3AN fitting
• -3AN line. 12in long.
• -3AN to -3AN 90 degree bulkhead fitting with 2 bulkhead nuts. (to go through the firewall)
• -3AN line. 16in long.

For the bleeder I'll be using a regular -3AN bleeder fitting.

As for the sealant, I've got a little paranoia going on. Today when tightening my braided brake lines onto the calipers to get ready for brake bleeding, I found that the -3AN to NPT fitting that goes into the wilwood caliper could still turn with some force. "Some" as in "this feels like it shouldn't turn so easily" kind of "Some". This got me really worried. I applied a good amount of Loctite PST thread sealer and I expected it to be down real tight. I then search up some threads on hydraulic lines leaking and sure enough I found this thread by JohnK discussing some leakages around NPT fittings. The thread talks about using Permantex thread sealer. Should I redo by brake lines NPT fittings with permantex thread sealer? Would that help?

[JohnK]

Hey Daniel. Your plan and routing for the clutch hydraulic line sounds solid. I had to play with line lengths a bit to get everything to fit right, and don't recall what I ultimately ended up using but you're definitely in the ballpark with your line lengths. The bulkhead fitting through the firewall side of the bootbox makes installation a bit easier (vs. trying to do it all with one continuous line).

Regarding the sealant. I haven't personally used the Loctite PST sealer but from my quick look at it online it looks like it's a PTFE-based sealer very similar to the Permatex thread sealer. These aren't really "thread lockers" so don't expect it to lock the fitting in place. You still need to tighten the fitting down appropriately. If your caliper fittings aren't leaking and you are able to tighten them down, there's no need to remove them and re-seal with a different sealer.

[edwardb]

Agree with the advice to not take parts apart where you've used Loctite PST sealant. Either Loctite or Permatex are quality products. Just to be clear, whatever brand you're using is only on the NPT fittings. The -AN fittings don't use sealant on the threads. A very light touch of lubrication on the threads and on the mating surfaces of the flares isn't a bad thing. I typically use whatever fluid is going to be in the lines. For your hydraulic clutch lines, I'd brush with a little bit of brake fluid. I feel like it helps to make sure that final cinch seats them properly.

You have the same engine/bell housing/T56 setup as my Coupe, and pretty sure you have the hydraulic TOB lines coming out of the same opening. Works fine and the lines are kept well clear of the spinning clutch. Wasn't 100% clear on what you're doing with the hydraulic lines. For the pair, you want which one is the upper one (depending on the orientation of the TOB and how it's configured) to be the bleed line. I put a bleeder on it as you said and just tie wrapped it to the other line. It doesn't need to go all the way into the footbox. Just accessible when reaching from the engine compartment when bleeding. Then add whatever flex extension is needed on the other line to get to the MC. I ran mine through the same hole as the rear harness and didn't use a bulkhead connector. Nothing wrong with that. But IMO the fewer connections the better.

For putting angled NPT connections into the brake calipers and MC's, I agree there's a fine line between tight enough and "I can still go one more turn around..." for proper orientation. Why I like to use straight adapters where possible. Here too I agree with the advice you were already given. If in doubt, error on the light touch side and then check for leaks. Probably you'll be OK. Overtightening means you'll be buying new parts. And not always the adapter. As me how I know that.

[facultyofmusic]

With the help of John and Paul's generous guidance, I ordered the parts from summit racing and they arrived the next day. I don't know what magic summit racing pulls but I swear the stuff got to my door within 12 hours of me pressing the checkout button. Anyway... The implementation is exactly according to plan:
20220209_182654.jpg 20220209_182708.jpg 20220209_182725.jpg 20220209_183400.jpg
Dare I say the bulkhead through the firewall looks CLEAN! Inside the footbox I could have gotten away with a 11in line instead of 12in, but that's all fine really.

It wasn't until I tried attaching the bleeder value to the bleeder line did I realize that... THE LINES AND FITTINGS ARE -4AN, NOT -3AN! I cursed out loud in the middle of the night in my garage. It's no biggie, I'll buy some -3AN to -4AN conversion fittings. I don't like the fact that I'm paying good dinner money for what is an additional potential point of leakage. I'm sure it'll be fine if I just tighten everything down.

[facultyofmusic]

In post #173 I talked about my worries with the fittings still able to turn with some force. With reassurance from John and Paul, I called up my buddy and we bled the brakes. I'm happy to announce that the pedals are now super firm with nothing leaking! After bleeding the brakes I asked by buddy to push on that brake pedal as hard as he could while I monitor the fitting in question. Nothing came out of it at all.
20220208_214533.jpg

[TBull]

Sounds like you got it. Well done. I know that's a good feeling.

[facultyofmusic]

In post #156 I wrote about the heat insulation padding I installed around the lower firewall areas. I was pretty happy with them at the time, but as time went on I realized just how fragile they were. One sharp-ish edge grazing over them and the foil surface may scratch or peel. I grew unsatisfied with them, and so I decided to make it better.

... but WHY more heat insulation? This is a totally subjective topic and I've seem answers ranging from "it never gets hot enough to annoy anyone" to "I can't freaking stand it". AFAIK, heat insulation is only a part of the equation. Making the foot-box air-tight from the other side of the firewall is crucial to ensuring the engine bay hot air doesn't get in. Some also did a pass-through vent to supply ambient temperature air from the front of the vehicle. I've chosen to do heat insulation for the following reasons:

1. I have sweaty feet (trust me I hate it) and it only takes a little heat to have it start sweating.
2. The Californian sun is a ruthless ball of sun burns. With black carpet it's just gonna toast.
3. I want to install as little "stuff" inside the foot box as possible to give myself maximum foot space. Right now all I have is sound dampening and I don't plan to add more than that and carpet.

I purchased some Thermo-Tec Cool-It Mat to add on top of the existing layer of insulation. The mat is stitched strong metal material on one side, foil on the other, with silica wool sandwiched in-between. It's exactly what I need (and it made my order expensive enough to qualify for free shipping from Summit Racing LOL).
insulation_material00004.jpg insulation_material00005.jpg

I took the existing patches of insulation and glued it to the shiny side of the mat with 3M Super77 adhesive spray and cut out the mat in the exact same shape. The end result is pretty much what I had before, but now with a stronger and even more insulating layer.
insulation_material00003.jpg insulation_material00001.jpg

I lined the sides with heat-reflective foil tape. The new mat is both stronger and looks cooler too!
insulation_material00002.jpg

Here are the pads applied to the foot-boxes. I used the remaining mat to shield my brake and fuel lines from the heat as well. Honestly, probably not needed... but hey why not. It also looks like my foot-boxes have invisibility cloaks on. :P
heat_insulation00004.jpg heat_insulation00001.jpg heat_insulation00002.jpg heat_insulation00003.jpg

Whew! Now I'm MUCH more confident about my heat insulation situation. It only took a little bit of time and the end result is definitely worth it.

Fedex has informed me that another box from FFR will be arriving soon. Just on time! Can't wait to finish up the gas pedal and seal up the firewall for good.

[facultyofmusic]

The coyote install kit is here! Time for the first thing on the list: Accelerator Pedal. Let me just preface this with that it was a lot more difficult than I expected, mainly because the coyote pedal is a lot bigger than the footbox has room for. A lot of grinding and shaving is required. Here we go.

Based on the FFR instructions, I initially cut / shaved my pedal to look like this:
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Here the webbing structure around the mounting holes interfere with the drive shaft. I've found other build threads to also mention this. I wanted to confirm for myself, and indeed it does. The pedal mount was actually a pretty good template of how much to cut off, so I traced it out make sure the pedal doesn't stick out from the mount:
20220216_180631.jpg 20220216_181447.jpg 20220216_181452.jpg

At this point I thought the pedal must fit, so I attached the pedal to the mount and tried to install it. Honestly, I'm surprised that I tried as hard as I did. No matter what I did I could NOT figure out a way to maneuver the assembly in place. I took it apart, installed the mount first, and then saw what was wrong. First thing: It's actually not that hard to install the pedal with the mount already secured in place. Second thing, the footbox tubes will interfere with the side and front casing of the pedal base. I used a blue marker to mark out the parts that needed additional grinding/shaving:
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The area between the two blue lines need to shaved down because it interferes with the firewall support tubing. The front of the base, already ground off in the picture, interferes with a cross member in front of the pedals. Both areas need to be shaven. The next trouble came when I was shaving it down. I went just a little too far and actually exposed the rotating bearing section of the pedal! If when you're shaving your pedal and you see red, then you've reached it. Stop, don't keep going. I backed off and smoothed out the remaining area within the blue lines. I made sure to seal the opening off with a huge piece of duct tape and pressed it real well. I don't want water or dust to get in there.
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[facultyofmusic]

With all these parts shaved, the pedal finally sat in place. It's still tight, but it's sitting there without hitting anything else.
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I don't know what you raised an eyebrow when you saw the two above pictures, but I certainly did when I saw it in real life. The throttle pedal sits pretty far back compared to the brake pedal. I DON'T need them to be level, but it shouldn't be THAT far back. I already closed shop for today, but I think I'll go pad the bottom mount point with a washer or something. I also want to install a pedal stopper behind the pedal itself. Not that I'll ever smash that throttle pedal down, but the pedal just seems too floaty to me right now. Luckily the bottom mounting bolt of the pedal bracket is quite literally right behind the pedal arm, perfectly aligned. The distance is almost there too:
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My plan is to use a coupler and a regular nut to make an adjustable pedal stop. On the other end of the coupler I'll put a big fender washer with padding material so the pedal arm has a soft landing. Here's the plan drawn out on paper.
20220216_225006.jpg

Time for a trip to ace hardware.

[460.465USMC]

Hi Danny. Looks like you came up with a config. that works for you. I struggled with the accelerator mount and really tried my best to use the F5 supplied pedal bracket, but wasn't clever enough to make it work for me. Ending up making my own bracket, primarily due to clearance issues at the top where the DBW cable plugs in. Mucho better fit. If you get really bored and have five minutes to waste, you can check it out here (first link is me fiddling with the pedal; second one is the home made bracket):

Coyote Gas Pedal Solution! (Part 1)

Coyote Gas Pedal Solution! (Part 2)

[facultyofmusic]

Hi Danny. Looks like you came up with a config. that works for you. I struggled with the accelerator mount and really tried my best to use the F5 supplied pedal bracket, but wasn't clever enough to make it work for me. Ending up making my own bracket, primarily due to clearance issues at the top where the DBW cable plugs in. Mucho better fit. If you get really bored and have five minutes to waste, you can check it out here (first link is me fiddling with the pedal; second one is the home made bracket):

Coyote Gas Pedal Solution! (Part 1)

Coyote Gas Pedal Solution! (Part 2)

Yeah the throttle pedal ended up being SO much more work than I thought. Perhaps it's minute manufacturing differences, but your pedal sat a lot higher in your pictures than mine did before shaving and grinding. I suppose I got a little lucky here. The DBW cable has JUST enough space to click in.

Although to be completely honest, in hindsight I wish I took the route of making a custom pedal mount just like yours instead of trying to shave the pedal assembly and shoehorn it into place. Not only does your custom spacer look awesome, it also looks like it has much, much more room to work with. In the process of making my pedal fit I ground into the pedal electronics housing itself. Even now I'm wondering if I should just purchase a new pedal and start over. I probably won't change mine now that I finally got it to work, but just thinking about that exposed bearing makes my face scrunch up towards the middle.

To future builders reading this thread: Go with a custom spacer like the one on Chris (460.465USMC), Paul (edwardb), or John (JohnK)'s build. It's worth it.

[facultyofmusic]

Went to the local hardware store today to get some rubber table-leg anti-slip pads, some 1/4" 20 button head screws, and nuts. The anti-slip pads turned out perfect for the job; no couplers required! I've set the stopper distance to just where the pedal goes full "pedal to the metal". If needed I'll be able to adjust it before I close up my foot-box.
gas_spacer.jpg gas_spacer1.jpg gas_spacer2.jpg

I also made a clutch pedal stop using a strip of steel. I bent it is such a way that it has 2-side contact with one of the foot-box cross members, and bent the extension portion by ~20degrees to have it be parallel to the clutch pedal arm angle when it's depressed (sorry I swear it makes more sense with the pictures below). The stopper itself uses the same mechanism as the one above.
clutch_spacer1.jpg clutch_spacer2.jpg clutch_spacer3.jpg clutch_spacer4.jpg

I will be disassembling the clutch pedal stopper in the next few days to sand and paint them so I'll have more pictures then! Something I'm worried about though, is the adjustability of these stoppers once the side panels are installed the sealed. I can make a custom angled wrench to reach behind to the nuts, but I think a better idea is to use 1/4" 20 rivnuts and wing nuts so that the stoppers are fully adjustable by hand. I'll have plenty of time before I seal up the foot-box.

[Fman]

Just a heads up my clutch pedal requires full throw to the firewall to get enough clutch engagement and not be too far in front of the brake pedal. I am running a hydraulic clutch with Forte slave cylinder. Maybe mine is not the norm but wanted to make you aware you could need full throw of the pedal.

Keep up the nice work!

[edwardb]

Just a heads up my clutch pedal requires full throw to the firewall to get enough clutch engagement and not be too far in front of the brake pedal. I am running a hydraulic clutch with Forte slave cylinder. Maybe mine is not the norm but wanted to make you aware you could need full throw of the pedal.

This is a very good point. Just wanted to say (1) I agree completely, and (2) that's what you want anyway. Physics are at work here. The more pedal throw you have, the lighter the pedal effort is going to be. The TOB has to move a certain amount no matter what. I've been very careful on my builds to make sure the clutch pedal has to go all the way to the floor to get full clutch actuation with the least pedal. Requires the proper match between the master and slave cylinders. If you're stopping the clutch pedal well above the floor and getting full actuation, you're working with a heavier pedal than necessary.

Editorial comment: Don't quite get the point of the throttle pedal stop. The Ford DBW module has it's own stop. If you're thinking of it being a sort of governor for the driver, you may want to re-think how you're driving the car. You'll find with the Coyote it's very responsive. It only takes pressure on the pedal to go from idle to launch. Even in normal driving, including aggressively, the main sense is pressure on the pedal. You'll find out very quickly that pushing it to the floor (stopped or not) is generally way too aggressive for street driving and depending on the gear, conditions, etc. will often break the back tires loose. Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears.

[facultyofmusic]

This is a very good point. Just wanted to say (1) I agree completely, and (2) that's what you want anyway. Physics are at work here. The more pedal throw you have, the lighter the pedal effort is going to be. The TOB has to move a certain amount no matter what. I've been very careful on my builds to make sure the clutch pedal has to go all the way to the floor to get full clutch actuation with the least pedal. Requires the proper match between the master and slave cylinders. If you're stopping the clutch pedal well above the floor and getting full actuation, you're working with a heavier pedal than necessary.

The physics makes total sense, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think adjusting pedal effort is possible without swapping out the master/slave cylinders at this point. So whatever bite point and engagement region I get is what I'll have to live with. The clutch pedal stop is mainly there to provide a "soft but firm" stop instead of a "grinding and scraping the foot box hardware" stop. I do hope, though, that the pedal doesn't have to go too far before the clutch fully disengage. My legs aren't very long

Editorial comment: Don't quite get the point of the throttle pedal stop. The Ford DBW module has its own stop. If you're thinking of it being a sort of governor for the driver, you may want to re-think how you're driving the car. You'll find with the Coyote it's very responsive. It only takes pressure on the pedal to go from idle to launch. Even in normal driving, including aggressively, the main sense is pressure on the pedal. You'll find out very quickly that pushing it to the floor (stopped or not) is generally way too aggressive for street driving and depending on the gear, conditions, etc. will often break the back tires loose. Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears.

"Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears." is exactly right Paul, and I've added a "driver's governor" just in case. TBH, I'm not so sure it will ever be useful either. It's there just in case one day I'll think "If there's a way to limit throttle that'll be great". It's easy to add it now than later than the foot-box is sealed, so I'm adding it now. The hope is I'll never really have to use it. If I want to drive an easy car, I should go drive something else.

[facultyofmusic]

While attempting to install the foot-box firewall, I noticed that the pedal surface was too big and collides with the firewall aluminum.
pedal_interference1.jpg pedal_interference2.jpg

The pedal needs to fully clear chassis aluminum along its full degree of travel, so I'll have to grind it down. The pedal itself is pretty darn stiff so that's good. It also has a good amount of metal. I'm not worried about it coming apart.
still_not_much_space1.jpg still_not_much_space2.jpg

Fitting it back into the foot-box, it now clears the aluminum panels, but I think I need to grind it just a bit more to account for carpeting. I **REALLY** don't want the throttle pedal to get stuck in the middle of driving. I marked the new target shape with black marker for reference. It's late in the day, I'll continue grinding tomorrow or else I'll wake up the neighbours.
still_not_much_space3.jpg still_not_much_space4.jpg

After trimming the pedal down to the outline of the pedal mount, I thought it would clear the steering shaft FOR SURE by now. Alas, all that glitters is not gold, just more metal shreds on the workshop floor. The issue is that while the pedal mount clears the steering shaft, the extra thickness of the pedal plus the large button-head bolt does not:
driveshaft_interference1.jpg driveshaft_interference2.jpg

Luckily I have some 1/4-20 button head bolts with smaller heads lying around the shop. I plan to trim down the mounting point to about half of its current thickness as well as use the smaller head bolt. That should clear it.

[edwardb]

The physics makes total sense, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think adjusting pedal effort is possible without swapping out the master/slave cylinders at this point. So whatever bite point and engagement region I get is what I'll have to live with. The clutch pedal stop is mainly there to provide a "soft but firm" stop instead of a "grinding and scraping the foot box hardware" stop. I do hope, though, that the pedal doesn't have to go too far before the clutch fully disengage. My legs aren't very long

Correct. To change the throw requires a different master cylinder ID. Typically the slave is only available in one size. For example, my 20th Anniversary Roadster ended up with a Wilwood 1 inch MC and 7/8 inch slave cylinder. As I recall, Forte supplied a 1.25 inch MC at the time. The 1 inch one (about $70) lengthened the throw and reduced the effort. I'm not suggesting changing anything. But again my point was if you're stopping way short your effort is higher than it needs to be. It's all theory now. Wait until you've driven for a while in stop and go traffic.

"Bottom line IMO, the pedal stop is between your ears." is exactly right Paul, and I've added a "driver's governor" just in case. TBH, I'm not so sure it will ever be useful either. It's there just in case one day I'll think "If there's a way to limit throttle that'll be great". It's easy to add it now than later than the foot-box is sealed, so I'm adding it now. The hope is I'll never really have to use it. If I want to drive an easy car, I should go drive something else.

As long as it's easy enough to adjust, not hurting anything. It will be necessary to hit WOT (wide open throttle) during custom tuning. Dyno or street. And the Gen 3 Coyote absolutely requires a custom tune. But once you start driving, you'll find that WOT is a rare if ever event for street driving and you won't need a stop to tell you that. In any gear but first, WOT is loud, angry, and nearly instantly illegal. And for the record, driven with care and reasonable saneness, these aren't hard cars to drive. I think you'll be surprised how nice it drives if you haven't had the chance already.

[facultyofmusic]

But once you start driving, you'll find that WOT is a rare if ever event for street driving and you won't need a stop to tell you that. In any gear but first, WOT is loud, angry, and nearly instantly illegal. And for the record, driven with care and reasonable saneness, these aren't hard cars to drive. I think you'll be surprised how nice it drives if you haven't had the chance already.

Haha, sometimes I think about this car that I'm building and I can't help but be a little terrified of what it can do. I've driven cars of a similar power before (C7 corvette) but never on a track. I catch myself having that cheeky grin on my face and I know I'm about to try something dumb unless I pull myself back. I look at my unfinished build and I say to myself "Daniel you're gonna get into so much trouble with this thing..." As for driving one of these, unfortunately I haven't. One of the first pieces of instruction on the FFR build manual is "Don't let your friend drive your car." ... so I assume it applies to anyone who I come across with a Mk4 roadster :P. I visited Russ Thompson's shop a while back and saw his roadster. I had to try REALLY hard to not bring it up lol!

Once I get this car to a road drivable state, I plan to go to a bunch of autocross courses to understand its handing characteristics as well as its limits. Too much caution is annoying sometimes, but at least it keeps me alive.

[facultyofmusic]

As planned in post #188, I ground the upper mounting point to about half it's thickness. I was a little worried that it would severely compromise its structural integrity but ended up being pleasantly surprised at how strong the material is. There is a metal bushing inside the plastic to help out with the compression resistance as well.
trimmed.jpg trimmed1.jpg trimmed2.jpg

It now clears the steering shaft by about 1/16". Good enough for me!
installed1.jpg installed2.jpg

I trimmed the pedal again, this time down to the black line marked from last update. I'm now much more comfortable with the amount of space it has on the right.
more_trim_pedal1.jpg more_trim_pedal2.jpg

I swapped the rear nut of the pedal stop with a rivnut. Now I only need one nut to adjust the stop height. I also added a kind reminder for myself just below the stop so I don't end up double-guessing the side of the nut back there. Hehe.
size_reminder.jpg rivnut.jpg

And here's the final pedal arrangement! I can finally seal up the fire-wall! I'm giving myself a day to think if there's anything else I need to do before sealing it up for good.
final_pedals.jpg

[facultyofmusic]

I wanted to keep the pedal posts together so I didn't document the misc things I've been doing on the side. Small thing here and there, but they all add up

About a month ago I made the decision to paint all under-car exposed panels black. The first reason being I want some protection on the panel surfaces facing the seasonal elements. The second reason being that I want the car to look great from the bottom, just as it should from any angle, even the parts that won't be seen normally. I suppose it's a silly pride thing, but there are DEFINITELY build threads with panel treatment better than I'll ever do so.... why not. I've done a fair bit of research on painting on aluminum panels. In a previous post I discussed painting the cockpit aluminum and was cautioned against it due to aluminum metal's properties. In conclusion: once sanded and cleaned properly, apply a self-etching primer and the paint on top of that should stick. I tested it on a small piece of aluminum and the results are pretty good.
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I have limited space in the backyard, so every morning I sand, clean, and coat just enough panels to fit on my backyard table. In the afternoon the primer will be dry and I apply a layer of paint. It only takes about 10mins out of each day. I need to stand up and stretch from sitting all day anyway.
20220220_223718.jpg

The sides that will be covered with carpet will be fully plastered with sound dampening material before carpet install, so no need to paint those sides. There are some panels that I've already installed and riveted though. I'll figure out how to do those down the line.

I'm currently debating whether or not I should coat the trans tunnel from the underside. I bought 3 kinds of spray-on paint/coating to play around with: enamel, rubberized undercoating, and FlexSeal. Test results show enamel sticking extremely well, but the layer is thin. The rubberized undercoating literally comes off with the slight rub of a finger, so I'm staying away from that. FlexSeal stuck onto the aluminum surprisingly well (I thought it would just peel off). It's also thick and rubbery, so I might as that for the trans tunnel. I tested FlexSeal on both sanded and unsanded aluminum. It doesn't make much of a difference. I also tried FlexSeal on top of self-etching primer. It actually came off EASIER compared to just aluminum. Interesting.
20220220_141032.jpg 20220220_141035.jpg

If I am to paint the trans tunnel I'll have to remove the parking brake assembly. It'll be a hassle but I think it'll be worth it in the end. When inspecting the bottom of the frame I also noted some rust spots already forming along some cracks, so I think coating the underbody will be a good idea in general.
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I'm primarily worried about the trans tunnel because it will be a pain to paint after the engine gets installed, so I want to make sure to do that part right. I can always coat the other easier parts later.

[facultyofmusic]

Getting started on power steering. At the beginning of this build I opted for a manual steering rack because I thought I couldn't need a powered one, but after reading advices to get power steering time and time again, I've decided to switch over. The improved caster and center-tracking will be worth it IMO.

What I want to do, actually, is to drive the car with manual rack for a bit before switching to a powered one, JUST so I see for myself what the difference is like. I'll have the pump installed before dropping the engine in, but won't switch out the rack until later. The rack is on back order anyway.

The kit I'm using is the FFR provided KRC kit. It comes with an integrated pump and reservoir as well as replacement pulleys to drive it. The bracket went on pretty easily. What I'm having trouble with is the belt. It just seems WAY too short. I tilted my reservoir severely out of alignment, have the pulleys literally rubbing against each other, and it STILL impossible to put on.
20220221_191950.jpg

I found this thread talking about a similar issue, but there's been no updates on it. I emailed FFR with the above picture and description asking if I got the incorrect belt or something. I hope to hear back soon.

[JohnK]

It's pretty short but it will fit. Get it all the way on one pulley before trying to get it on the other one. In your photo, it's only part way on the PS pump pulley which is preventing it from slipping over the water pump pulley.

[460.465USMC]

Times two on what JohnK said. Here's what it will look like once you have the belt installed and tensioned.

[edwardb]

Times three. Another picture with it assembled for my Coupe. It's close getting it over the pullies. But then OK.



You said you emailed FF with questions. That's fine. Just a suggestion though. This is a standard KRC kit for the Coyote. You'd probably get better (and faster...) response from KRC. I've had to contact their customer support several times over the years. They were very helpful and of course really know their products.

Can't help but comment about your plan to drive the car in manual steering mode then decide if you really need power steering. How will you know the difference unless you remove/replace the rack? Then go back and install the manual setup if you don't like the PS. Really? You've already spent north of $1K for the PS setup. Why not finish it now? The rack is way easier to install at this stage versus in a completed car. Plus the front end alignment is different so you'd have to redo that as well. I get it FF is backordered on the PS rack. But you can literally build the entire chassis (e.g. everything...) without the rack installed. Hard to believe they wouldn't have the rack by then. Push comes to shove, a Fox body PS rack from your local parts store is <$200 without a core. Unfortunately though won't have the rack spacers FF includes with theirs that provides the best geometry.

[Jeff Kleiner]

X4. You just walk it on.

Jeff

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks for the swift reply guys! I tried walking it on just just couldn't do it with the reservoir attached so I detached it, walked the belt on, and now I'm trying darn hardest to bolt it in. With the belt on, I just couldn't get the reservoir to rotate enough to clear that bump on the engine. I've even tried using my floor jack to provide some extra rotating torque, but it just won't budge.
20220222_155004.jpg

Closer look at the bump:
20220222_155016.jpg

I've verified that without the belt on I can rotate the reservoir in place to clear that bump. With the belt on... no clue how. Is there a trick that can employ here to tension it even more? Out of curiosity, I wonder what that bump is for anyway. A part of the oil gallery?

EDIT:
I received an email from Dan Golub of FFR and he confirmed that it does look a bit too far off. He recommended that I email KRC about it, so I did.

[JohnK]

It's possible that you just got a belt that was manufactured on the short side. I would definitely not be applying additional force to the pump or reservoir to further tighten the belt - that's just asking for expensive heartache IMO.

One further comment to Edwardb's comments on the PS rack. As you know, one of the main benefits of going with power steering is the ability to run additional caster. For many people (myself included) this entailed trimming the front upper control arm rearward adjusting sleeves to provide enough adjustability to get to that caster number. I would *strongly* advise doing that mod now if you haven't already vs. trying to do it later on. But to the point of being able to compare PS vs. MS, unless you were to also re-align the car with different caster numbers you're not going to get a "fair" comparison of the overall benefit of power steering. All in all, I would echo the sentiment to just go with PS now.

Edit: One last note on the KRC power steering setup. You can adjust the amount of assist by replacing the high pressure outlet fitting with a different size orifice. The fitting that comes with the pump is the middle of the range (number 7, IIRC). Many people replace that fitting with the smallest that KRC offers (#4) to dial the amount of assist down to the minimum, which is still more than enough for a car this light. If your concern is that the steering will feel over-assisted with power steering, I can say that with the smallest orifice it does not.

[facultyofmusic]

But to the point of being able to compare PS vs. MS, unless you were to also re-align the car with different caster numbers you're not going to get a "fair" comparison of the overall benefit of power steering. All in all, I would echo the sentiment to just go with PS now.

Edit: One last note on the KRC power steering setup. You can adjust the amount of assist by replacing the high pressure outlet fitting with a different size orifice. The fitting that comes with the pump is the middle of the range (number 7, IIRC). Many people replace that fitting with the smallest that KRC offers (#4) to dial the amount of assist down to the minimum, which is still more than enough for a car this light. If your concern is that the steering will feel over-assisted with power steering, I can say that with the smallest orifice it does not.

Can't help but comment about your plan to drive the car in manual steering mode then decide if you really need power steering. How will you know the difference unless you remove/replace the rack? Then go back and install the manual setup if you don't like the PS. Really? You've already spent north of $1K for the PS setup. Why not finish it now? The rack is way easier to install at this stage versus in a completed car. Plus the front end alignment is different so you'd have to redo that as well. I get it FF is backordered on the PS rack. But you can literally build the entire chassis (e.g. everything...) without the rack installed. Hard to believe they wouldn't have the rack by then. Push comes to shove, a Fox body PS rack from your local parts store is <$200 without a core. Unfortunately though won't have the rack spacers FF includes with theirs that provides the best geometry.

Thanks for the heads up Paul and John. My decision to try it with a manual rack and then switch it over to the powered one was based on the perceived ease of "switching" it. After reading the instructions for power steering install it didn't seem to be that difficult. Unbolt the manual rack, pop in the powered one, connect the hoses, and that's it! or at least that's how it played out in my head anyway. I did think about alignment, but it was another one of those things that didn't "sound" so difficult. So at the end the conclusion was: "I already have the manual rack in, why not see how it drives with a manual rack? Just pop the powered one in later."

Based on the responses above, it sounds like switching it over won't be so simple. TBH I've never done alignment before. I just imagined it to be a bunch of strings and guides to make sure things are parallel and make sure the suspension geometry is what the manual says it should be. It's almost guaranteed that I'm underestimating this task. I admit a non-negligible part of this is just my curiosity, but I could just meet up with someone who built their roadster with a manual rack one day and try it out that way...

I've already trimmed the UCA sleeves in anticipation for PS. Looks like the best way forward is to finish it now as Paul said. Thanks for the advice everyone!