build thread for Hot Rod #442

[sread]

Hey guys - Somebody recently messaged me wanting to see more pics of the exhaust that I built for #442 so thought I would go ahead and start a build thread. Been meaning to do it for some time but kept putting it off as I hate to type and feel like I already waste an incredible amount of time surfing the web anyways. I'll just post some of the high lites and cover a few things I have done to solve some of the issues that are inherent in building one of these things.
I am a recently retired aircraft mechanic and have a pretty extensive mechanical back ground including some time as an auto painter so I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into when I started this deal. In fact one of the reasons I didn't start sooner was because I realized what a big job it would be and really wasn't sure I wanted to start such project. The only reason I ended up doing so was I came across a deal too good to pass up when I picked up an unfinished kit which included pretty much everything to build the complete car . Aluminum LS1 with afr heads, cam, intake, TKO 600, Moser 3 link rear, wheels and tires, A/C, power windows, Boyd tank. Pretty much all the options I would want except IRS. I had to drive from Texas to just outside Chicago to retrieve it and I have to admit when I got home and unloaded everything I was a little overwhelmed and wondering what I had gotten myself into. Anyways, that was about 1 year ago and I am knee deep into it and feel like I have most of the hard stuff done, although it is taking much longer than I anticipated. I can definitely tell that this is going to be one kick *** car to drive though and can't wait to take it for a first drive. So, enough of the back ground b.s.

My idea for this build is to go for an old school traditional look along with a bare bones street fighter attitude. No fenders, no hood, no shiny paint or chrome - a little rough around the edges. I am only interested in cars I can drive and drive hard. Nothing against show cars - I love to look at them and admire the craftsmanship, but I don't want to own one. Being a mechanic most of my life, I am all about easy to care for and low maintenance. I love rat rods and steam punk themed cars but they need to be well engineered and functional.
And in my book, a real hot rod has to have some rake - with some real meat out back - the bigger the better. Of course, this being a Factory Five car, there lies the first obstacle. They couldn't have made it much more difficult to achieve that look with the frame and suspension design chosen. After talking with Dan Ruth, I ended up going with some longer QA1 s with 300# springs in the rear and 425# up front. I also added some 1 inch longer lower control arms from Breeze to center the rear tires in the wheel wells not only for looks but for the added bump clearance needed. The car came with 20 inch 275 x 40 rear tires which are 28 inches tall which never would have worked anyways with the stock Konis but came in handy for mock up and setting ride height to run a 29 inch tall tire. I now have some Hoosier pro street radials in 29 x 15.5 which should give just the look I am wanting along with some 15 x 12 ET five window wheels that look great. 20190913_104637.jpg20190913_104631.jpg

Sorry, don't have any pics as the tires haven't been mounted yet but I test fitted the wheels and they are perfect after going to the smaller 10 1/2 mustang rear discs. Will run a 15 x 8 front which just clears the stock mustang gt 11 inch rotors when used with a .250 spacer.
And before anybody mentions it - I realize that doing this throws the suspension geometry out of whack. I get it. Building a hot rod has always been about compromise - balancing style against performance and function. I know this ain't gonna be the hot set up for chasing the lap record at the local road course, but I have also been around long enough to know that the way things work on paper doesn't always jive with the the way they work in real life.
The next issue that rears its ugly head is the diagonal brace for the panhard bar mount. As soon as you raise the rear ride height you also discover that the diagonal brace now won't clear the third member. Well, that ain't gonna work so I shortened the diagonal and built a triangulated box frame that ties into the left half of the rear frame cross member. Its probably easier to just look at the picture than it is to explain it. Is it the best way to do it? probably not. Is it something I recommend doing? nope. It's not the most elegant solution, but it is all I could come up with and am betting it will work fine.
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while I was there , I relocated the battery mount similar to what t. collins did on his car IMG_1043.jpg

[wallace18]

Very nice!

[FF33rod]

Thanks for taking the time to share, it's always great to see what others are up to!
Look forward to hearing more

Steve

[sread]

Decided to break this up into multiple threads - my desktop has a nasty habit of crashing pretty much every day and could just see spending an hour or two typing all this stuff up, attaching pictures, etc. and then it disappearing in the blink of an eye.

Somebody asked about the exhaust so I will include some pics of that here.
I have always liked unique exhaust systems on my vehicles be it car, motorcycle, or whatever. To me , the sound is every bit as important as the look. It is kind of like the signature for any ride.
After looking at the various ready made options available for this car (not many) I decided the only way I was going to get what I was looking for would be to build it myself. Besides, I really needed to improve my welding skills and I have always been envious of the guy that could build his own set of headers so I decided no opportunity better than the present.
In keeping with the old school theme and really liking the look of the lake style headers I bought a bunch of mandrel bends and had at it. It was definitely a learning experience and I have to admit my skills with the tig torch improved immensely. I am sure any real welder can look at my work and see plenty of room for improvement but for the most part I am pleased with the way it has turned out. Speaking of learning experience, one of the most challenging aspects of building stuff like this is not the welding itself but heat related distortion and movement. It is incredible how much things will move around and change shape once you start the actual welding. I did the left side first and really struggled with it but when I did the right side I kind of figured out some of the technique and had much less issue with it. Like many skills , it is something that only experience can teach. One other thing that I failed to consider when starting this part of the build was the difficulty of making the headers themselves look asthetically pleasing, i.e. having uniform bends, equal spacing, just pleasing to the eye. When they are right out in the open like this it is kind of important. I'd give myself a c- on that part . Its my first ever set of headers and they look like it. I'll live with it - it ain't a show car.
As far as the system itself, I wanted something that looked cool but was still practical for real world driving . Not much sounds meaner than open headers and they are great fun - for about a quarter of a mile. I put caps on the megaphones and run a tee off them that connects to the under car system and runs thru Porter mufflers and then tail pipes out the back. I like the Porters for the traditional sound that is similar to the old school glass pack but to my ear has a more metallic note - kind of a cross between a glass pack and a Flowmaster. Instead of the standard perforated or louvered core they actually use a coiled steel spring along with some type of metallic packing.
I cut up the kit exhaust and used the pieces to construct the under car portion and tailpipes and added flex joints along with v-band clamps for easy maintenance. Pretty happy with the way it turned out. I tig welded the whole thing while being back purged so hopefully it won't crack to pieces too soon. It turns out that 301 ss is easy to overheat and cook when welding so I'll just have to wait and see. Also used some cool billet exhaust hangers that i found that look much cleaner than the kit components. IMG_1025.jpgIMG_1021.jpgIMG_1028.jpgIMG_1027.jpgIMG_1019.jpg

I'll also mention that this ain't the hot set up for making max power. There is no question it will choke down the LS to some degree although with the headers uncapped it may not be too bad. All part of the compromise again when building a hot rod. My plan is to carry a small cordless impact and after arriving at the car show, drag strip, whatever, zip out the 4 bolts for the caps and cruise around making noise, being obnoxious, looking cool , etc. then replace the caps and drive home. I will probably make some type of baffles to go in the megs so they are not so ear splitting.


for some reason not all the attachments showing up now

[sread]

Here is a couple of shots of the trailer hitch I built. I don't know about the rest of you guys but around here if you are going to spend much time outdoors, you need a way to get out of the sun. That means an EZ up is mandatory - along with a chair or two and a cooler for the appropriate chilled beverages. The trunk on this thing ain't gonna handle any of that so I figured I better come up with a way to pull a small trailer. I pretty much copied Eric's build for that part. It will also come in handy for supporting the trunk floor.IMG_0952.jpg
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[sread]

some misc bits and pieces:

made new triangle plates to raise the engine 7/8 inch to clear the electra steer unit IMG_1048.jpg

made a trans spacer to get the pinion angle right IMG_0942.jpgIMG_0950.jpg

[sread]

here's a few items I used to address some of the door issues. First , I remember somebody commenting on the kit provided exterior door handles not returning to center and being unable to insert or remove the key unless they were centered - so I came up with a simple fix (if you have a welder). I just added a small stop along with a spring to return them to center - works great now.
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another common complaint is the interior door handle and mechanism. I don't know how it is on the gen 2 but there is no way that the included set up on my car would work as the manual shows - the angles are all wrong for the cable pulls and there just isn't enough room to attach things the way they show. I browsed a bunch of pictures for old school oem door regulator parts and found one that I believe came from an early 70's Chevy pick up and did it like this.

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the door is so light that the handle will also function as a door pull.
I also used a solid rod for actuation of the interior handle as it offered less friction and a more positive action
it works great also - at least it did before I took the doors back off - I hope I can get them back in the same place as anybody that has tackled this yet probably noticed the doors are very sensitive to a precise adjustment of the latch and striker. The one thing I still have yet to figure out is a safety lock set up. I am probably going to stick with something very simple like a sliding bolt latch type deal

[sread]

made a fan shroud and gave it the engine turned treatment
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didn't like the ff roll bar set up as it looks too wimpy, and doesn't really provide any protection either. I copied another of T.Collins ideas and made my own dual hoop set but added some additional reinforcement. I am under no illusion that this will provide meaningful rollover protection in any kind of high energy crash but I think it is better than nothing. I added additional reinforcement to the 2 inch angle iron on the bottom so it is actually now a u-channel and can be bolted thru the frame cross member quite securely. And actually, one of the main reasons I felt it necessary to come up with something is to provide a place for head rests. I think the greatest risk in driving this thing on the street is getting rear ended by some dip**** playing with their phone. With low back seats and no type of head restraint this thing really is a death trap. Getting t-boned by somebody running a stop sign or red light will probably also be fatal but that is on me for proceeding into an intersection with out looking. I'll accept that risk and responsibility having been riding motorcycles for over 50 years, but no matter how careful or skilled one is there is not much you can do to keep from getting smashed from behind sitting at a light or stopping for whatever.
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This actually turned out to be quite a pain in the butt to get built. I used 1 3/4 dom tubing for the hoops and they will slide into 2 inch receivers. The hard part is there is no room for error in getting the placement right because of interfering with the water fall and also the hard top when mounted. What really made it difficult was that the 1 3/4 tubing is a very close fit in the 2 inch receiver pieces - I'm talking 1 - 2 thousandths max. in fact I had to polish the tubes just to get them to slip in to start with. I knew that distortion would be a problem once I started welding things in place but I didn't know how much. I welded the receivers in place with the roll hoops inserted and really tried to minimize the heat buy skipping around and only welding short sections at a time but after I finished they were stuck solid and wouldn't come out. Finally after much beating, jacking, cursing, prying, lubing, more cursing , I got them back out. I then spent several hours over a couple of days honing the inside of the receiver tubes with a po boys cylinder hone - which is just a piece of rod wrapped with emery cloth and chucked up in a drill I got them to the point that with a good coating of grease they will slide in and out with little help from the dead blow. Don't have any pics of the finished product yet.

[sread]

more detail to add:

this is the way I am trying to handle all the places where fasteners are needed to be installed in the various fiberglass panels. I really try to avoid rivnuts, especially in thin areas or places subject to stress. It is common on aircraft to use nutplate strips. I happen to have a supply left over from my sheetmetal days and they have come in quite handy. The cool thing about them is they are floating so they allow for some mis-alignment, and they eliminate any stress directly on the fiberglass. Here is a shot of the underside of the body at the firewall and cowl area.IMG_1052.jpg

[Tampa33Build]

Interested in trailer hitch

PMd you

Neil

[Straversi]

Thanks for sharing these photos. Really nice work. Looks like there are 3-5 photos in post #4. I can only open the one with the billet exhaust holder. The others come up as error messages.
-Steve

[sread]

reloaded some of the pics

[Straversi]

thanks,
Those pipes are great. Appreciate the photos
-Steve.

[Brave Salmon]

Man, ain't it a shame that FFR hasn't addressed this problem by now. Thank you for the great input. I'm sure others will benefit from your wofk..

[Roger Pugh]

It will be cool to see the pipes when you are finished!

[sread]

Its been a few months since I added any updates and since I am now waiting on the wire harness which is on back order from AAW thought I would post a few things I have been working on.

Made this adjustable support for the rear cowl area next to the forward edge of the trunk lid...you can sit on it now and should make it easy to fair the trunk lid in that area.

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I frenched in cups for recessed tail lights using 3 in pvc. I really wanted to use early Corvette tail lights similar to what Arrowhead did but wasn't willing to part with $100 a pop so I found some bee hive lights that are led and will give a very similar look. IMG_1061.jpg
Ended up being more work than I planned (as usual) as I originally thought I could use some 3 in exhaust tubing to make the cans...found out that lights I bought won't quite fit inside 3 inch tubing. Finally found that 3 in pvc would work but the added wall thickness meant that they just barely fit in the area needed -- I even had to add drain holes in the bottom of the cups because they have to sit at a slight fwd slope and water would pool inside. IMG_1062.jpg

Started fitting the roadster windshield and found like most that the outer ends of the frame don't conform very well to the curvature of the body. Took a cue from Dan Ruth and cut off the "wart" at the end. He actually cuts the entire lump off flush with the vertical leg of the frame but my band saw wasn't having any of that so I just remove about 2/3 of it. I think it came out OK. IMG_1064.jpg IMG_1078.jpg
Don't make the mistake I did though and mount the roadster windshield first if you intend to swap back and forth with the hard top. I thought I had it in the right place but when I checked the fit of the hard top I was off about 3/4 inch and had to fill the holes and move it back so I can use the same set of holes for both.

Got the line loc installed - kind of hard to do a proper burnout in a stick shift car without a line loc IMG_1065.jpg

Installed a drive shaft loop as well as shielding for the entire tunnel. Used a Jegs universal hoop which just barely fit inside the original factory installed brace for the sheet metal cover. Then just added some 3/16 plate for the sides. IMG_1067.jpg IMG_1071.jpg

Got the LS1 prepped for install with all new seals and gaskets, new oil pump, and new timing set, as well as fitting an LS2 style timing chain damper. Painted it Ford gray instead of the gold that previous owner had applied. Also up graded the clutch to a Ram with billet steel flywheel. Really curious how this thing will run. I was able to determine that it has a custom cam from Ed Curtiss at Flowtech which is a pretty highly regarded cam grinder although I think he is better known in the Ford camp. I have no idea what the cam specs are though, but I was able to measure the lobe lift and when multiplied by the the 1.7 rocker ratio gives .603 on the intake and .610 on the exhaust side. The base springs for the AFR heads spec a max lift of .600 and I know Ed wouldn't sell a cam to somebody without knowing the springs are appropriate so I guess I'll just have to fire it up and see what happens. I put in an email to Flowtech to see if they had any way of telling me what the specs are but never heard back. IMG_1079.jpg

I really liked the idea of using an electric park brake but wasn't keen on spending $500 plus for it so I followed a couple of others (don't remember now) and made my own. I bought a linear actuator off Amazon that has a 2 inch stroke and 400 lb pull force which seemed like it would work and cost $130. I made a simple bracket out of some 2 inch angle iron and modified the standard cables with the little replacement cable ends and although the install isn't fully finished yet I tested it and it seems to work great. Of course It won't have the warning lights and interlock and and other cool features that the E-stopp has but like I said , it didn't cost $500 either. I'll just have to remember to release it although it probably wouldn't be that difficult to add a warning light at least. If I run out of other things to do maybe I will worry about it then.

[FF33rod]

Lots of cool custom stuff!!! Thanks for posting

Steve

[sread]

update continued: wouldn't let me add any more photos

pics of the electric park brake IMG_1081.jpg IMG_1082.jpg

I also got the radiator/grill assy installed but made a few changes. I really wasn't comfortable with that much weight hanging off nothing more than those 4 small bolts thru the grill shell, so i made a couple of small support struts to stabilize the bottom. There are 2 ears with holes already drilled in just the right spot , I assume for the lower nose cowl, so I just bent up a couple of pieces of rod and welded a small tab to attach to the lower part of the grill shell. It is rock solid now. While I was doing that though, I also remade the 2 brackets which support the whole thing - mainly to move the grill and rad assy forward about 1 inch. As any body who has added a fan shroud to the gen 1 with the 33 grill knows, you very quickly run out of room for clearance between the fan and upper shock bolts at full extension. In my case I had also added a little extra space between the a/c condensor and radiator which pushed the fan back that much more so I pretty much had no choice. At least I won't have to trim the hood as much now. IMG_1083.jpg IMG_1085.jpg
I still had to trim the upper shock mount bolts and put thin nuts on and they will just kiss the outer shell of the fan at full extend but I can live with it.

the car as it sits now, waiting for wire harness which was ordered a month ago but will hopefully ship any day now. IMG_1088.jpg

[RuffShod]

I like your style!

Following....

[shmelty]

Love the build!

[sread]

Finally reached that first big milestone and fired up the LS1. Been really curious as to how it would sound because it has some "mystery" grind custom cam. I think I'm going to like it.
This S O B has been fighting me every step of the way though. I'm running the Holley Terminator LS throttle body system on it and got off to a rough start. The first time I powered it up in preparation for starting I wasn't getting the fuel pump to come on . Started tracing the circuit and find the power stops at the inertia switch. Turns out the pigtail that they sell to go with it wasn't pinned correctly . Got that fixed then tried again.
The first cranking attempts resulted in not much more than some big backfires thru the intake....like it is out of time or has crossed plug wires. Pretty tough to do on the LS with coil on plug ignition and timing fully controlled by the ECU. Long story short, but I did manage to do it by getting one of the coil pack sub harnesses reversed. Got that straightened out and tried again and it actually started, but had this crazy lope to it. At first I thought it was just due to some wild cam specs but when I couldn't get it to respond to any tuning and wouldn't accept throttle or rev up it became pretty obvious more troubleshooting was in order. I'm beginning to think that the car can sense that I am going to beat the piss out of it when ever I finally get it on the road.
First, i had to find another laptop - for some reason mine would not install and run the Holley tuning software. Got a laptop, got the software installed, now I discover I need a special usb cable to connect to the ECU. The only thing special about it being it has a plastic screw on cap on one end to keep the cable securely attached - and it costs 50 bucks.
After many hours over a couple days of reading the instructions and watching Youtube videos I became proficient enough at navigating thru the program to set up a base map and run the car long enough to get a good datalog. All my previous efi tuning experience is on a 5.0 Ford running a Kenne Bell blower controlled by a Megasquirt system. Trying to learn the Holley system is like learning a new language but the basic principles and parameters still apply.
Anyways, after studying the datalog it was pretty obvious there was something screwy going on with the rpm signal. Ordered a crank sensor and cam sensor too just because it usually pays to do the easy stuff first. Come to find out , I find that the cam sensor isn't plugged in all the way. I think I had to disconnect it when I installed an adapter for the oil pressure sensor and somehow overlooked getting it plugged back in all the way. DOH!!!
Got that sorted out, put the starter and crank sensor back on . Let's try it now.... cranks and cranks and nothing. Watching the display and realize that the fuel pressure shows zero. W T F?!? I know the pump is coming on because you can't miss it. I had at least 2 gallons in the tank but don't have any choice except to pull the pump and see whats going on. Only thing it can be is the little section of hose that connects the pump with the hangar. Only that isn't it - it looks fine. Turns out that the pump is setting on the hangar a little more than an inch from the bottom of the tank...and now there is only about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of fuel in the tank . I adjust the pump on the hangar but now the little hose is about 1/2 inch too short - you know the hose made of special material to be submersed in fuel, that for some reason no parts house in town ever seems to carry. Anyways I fixed it close enough for testing and finally... it's alive!....and sounds pretty good to me. This is without any tuning yet at all.
At least I was able to cancel the order with RockAuto before it shipped and saved $80. Yipee!

https://youtu.be/ApkZ4x8deHI

[Just 1 More]

Here is a couple of shots of the trailer hitch I built. I don't know about the rest of you guys but around here if you are going to spend much time outdoors, you need a way to get out of the sun. That means an EZ up is mandatory - along with a chair or two and a cooler for the appropriate chilled beverages. The trunk on this thing ain't gonna handle any of that so I figured I better come up with a way to pull a small trailer. I pretty much copied Eric's build for that part. It will also come in handy for supporting the trunk floor.IMG_0952.jpg
IMG_1023.jpg

Do you have any measurements of that hitch? How has it worked for you?

[sread]

Hey, sorry, I didn't make any drawings or keep any measurements, I just kind of cut the pieces to fit as I went. I have only used it so far to hang one of those cargo carriers on and it worked fine. My original plan was to build a trailer using a full size casket and I even located one on Marketplace. When I told the wife I was going to pick up a used casket the next day she totally freaked out (superstitious I guess) lol... so I had to nix that plan and I just haven't gotten around to building anything else yet. I have a spring loaded fold up license plate holder which covers the receiver when not in use.

[Just 1 More]

Hey, sorry, I didn't make any drawings or keep any measurements, I just kind of cut the pieces to fit as I went. I have only used it so far to hang one of those cargo carriers on and it worked fine. My original plan was to build a trailer using a full size casket and I even located one on Marketplace. When I told the wife I was going to pick up a used casket the next day she totally freaked out (superstitious I guess) lol... so I had to nix that plan and I just haven't gotten around to building anything else yet. I have a spring loaded fold up license plate holder which covers the receiver when not in use.

From the pictures it looks like a pretty simple design and should be easy to follow. I do however have questions about the "used" casket.. what happened to the body? I had no idea they we're a multi use thing.. lol

[sread]

Yeah - some guy was using it as a Halloween prop. It even had a flame paint job with a rat fink painted on it. No idea if it ever actually had a body in it - but now that you mention it, the guy did tell me that he was a widower...

[33fromSD]

Yeah - some guy was using it as a Halloween prop. It even had a flame paint job with a rat fink painted on it. No idea if it ever actually had a body in it - but now that you mention it, the guy did tell me that he was a widower...

As morbid as it is, damaged / scratched / over-stock caskets are more available then you think. Damaged / scratched seems odd to say since it's going in a vault, in the ground, but people are very particular with how their loved ones are laid to rest so they want everything pristine, plus the price of caskets now-a-days is ridiculous. I remember the cost of my mother-n-laws and my dad's, it was stupid crazy.

Jim

[progmgr1]

Do you have any measurements of that hitch? How has it worked for you?

T(im)(?) Collins built a subframe to mount a robust trailer hitch. There's a design sketch in his build summary: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ler#post311546 You may find dimensions if you go back and search his build thread. I thought I had a copy of "someone's" dimensioned hitch support design, but can't find it right now - in the midst of a home remodel and my primary computer system is down for the duration...

Keith HR #894

[Indigo808]

Can you remember the OD of the tube you used? It looks like it could be 1.5 or 2.0". Thanks

[progmgr1]

I didn't build Tim's subframe design, but did something similar to mount the rear bumper and hang the CTS-V muffler I'm using. I used 1.5" square tube - 0.125" wall thickness. Probably overkill, but I didn't want anything to break if some fat slob (that would be me) stood on the bumper to wash the roof or something.

Keith HR #894

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