Rhino's Type 65

[Rhino]

Our Type 65 complete kit arrived this past Saturday. I felt like a six year old on Christmas morning. My wife and I are both ready to get started. We recently sold our "cruise-in car" to make room in the garage. Some of the basics are:
302 SBF
Tremec T5
IRS
Powder coat
Carpet
Hood and cowl scoops
Manual rack and pinion
Carpet
15" Haldibrands

The AC/heater unit was not chosen, nor were wipers, side windows or exhaust system. We really enjoy driving with the wind blowing through the car. We don't care for the sun beating down on our heads, so the coupe was our choice. Besides, the coupe looks incredible! One of our main concerns is getting a good ventilation system developed. Until we see the space under the dash, we won't make final decisions about what goes there. We will be using the Boig exhaust in hopes of lessening noise.

Like many newbies, I'm not sure how to approach the build thread. We will be posting our progress on the car and sharing any worthwhile discoveries which might be helpful to others. However, if we have questions, should those be posted as separate threads?

Pictures will be posted as soon as I figure out how to do that.

Well, it's time to get back to our inventory and to building a body buck.

Terry

[Namrups]

I would post everything in one build thread. (Thats what I did) It will be easier for you to find that info in the future if your only looking in one place. It will also help others following your thread if they see a problem posted and the solution in the same thread. A lot of the other builders will be following your thread "watching over your shoulder".

[burchfieldb]

Congrats! Welcome to the forum.

[Stangarang]

Good luck Rhino. Look forward to seeing more.

[JimStone]

Congratulations and good luck!

[Indy Shu]

Congrats! I kind of envy your build plan, keeping it simple and slim. I went opposite with big coyote, ac, wipers, pwr steering, cruise, elec. parking brake, and more which fills lots of space behind the dash and under the hood. Lots of space behind the dash if you keep it simple.
Good Luck!

[TangoUniform]

Welcome! My build has seen its challenges, I am sometimes frustrated, but still fun. I think the 2 things that have helped me most is putting something on the box that tells me what is in the box like in the Cobra Daytona build video (A great reference BTW) and my kanban board. I added notes to it so I knew what box each step involved. I wish I had indicated what parts I wanted powder coated when I reviewed the manual, It probably would have saved me some time. Good luck and have fun

[Rhino]

I would post everything in one build thread. (Thats what I did) It will be easier for you to find that info in the future if your only looking in one place. It will also help others following your thread if they see a problem posted and the solution in the same thread. A lot of the other builders will be following your thread "watching over your shoulder".

Thanks for the advice. It can be difficult to navigate the forum. I don't want to make it difficult for others.

[Rhino]

Congrats! I kind of envy your build plan, keeping it simple and slim. I went opposite with big coyote, ac, wipers, pwr steering, cruise, elec. parking brake, and more which fills lots of space behind the dash and under the hood. Lots of space behind the dash if you keep it simple.
Good Luck!

We kept is simple for several reasons. Our new car is so loaded with features, gizmos, apps and gadgets that it required a co-pilot for the first few thousand miles. One of us actually kept the owners' manual in hand to figure out things. Some of the safety features are actually distracting or (in my opinion) dangerous. For example, at night, the backup camera is so bright that it's impossible to see out the side windows!

New cars are designed to insulate us from the road. I miss "the feel of the road". The old MG was a blast to drive. It made me smile every time I drove it. The feel of manual steering and manual brakes in a car as light as the Type65 should be fun. Trading away the comfort/convenience features for the giggle factor made more sense.

Finally, omitting some things from our initial order gives us the chance to know the car and its construction before we finalize its features. Our top priority for the cockpit is good ventilation. Fabricating floor vents and dash vents and routing the hoses is very important. That's another topic that will receive lots of attention as the build goes on.

I see that we are practically neighbors. I look forward to showing the finished car to you.

Terry

[Rhino]

Welcome! My build has seen its challenges, I am sometimes frustrated, but still fun. I think the 2 things that have helped me most is putting something on the box that tells me what is in the box like in the Cobra Daytona build video (A great reference BTW) and my kanban board. I added notes to it so I knew what box each step involved. I wish I had indicated what parts I wanted powder coated when I reviewed the manual, It probably would have saved me some time. Good luck and have fun

Great tips! The garage wall has no wall space left so there's no room left for a kanban board. We are labeling boxes as we do inventory. To get rid of the pile of boxes, we will be putting similar items on their own shelves, e.g. fuel system, brakes... We also keep a calendar on the workbench to record each day's activity and schedule. Clipboards will go on the edge of the workbench for "notes to self", questions for the forum,etc. The tip about identifying parts for powder coating is a big help. Separate storage for parts which will be coming in/out for powder coating, welding or whatever.

[Rhino]

I should have said, "Our new family car". The Type 65 won't be loaded with gizmos, apps and gadgets.

[Indy Shu]

If you need to see anything along the way let me know, I'm always up for a drive. My coupe is roadworthy, although without paint.

[Rhino]

If you need to see anything along the way let me know, I'm always up for a drive. My coupe is roadworthy, although without paint.

John,
My wife and I would really appreciate getting to talk to you and see your coupe. We could use a boost of confidence as we get started.
I'll see if I can figure out to send a private message.
Terry

[Rhino]

Photo upload test.Type65.jpg

[Rhino]

Photo upload Type65.jpgtest#2

[Rhino]

Photo upload <img src="https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196341&amp;stc=1" attachmentid="196341" alt="" id="vbattach_196341" class="previewthumb align_0 size_large" style="">test#2

[Stangarang]

If you need to see anything along the way let me know, I'm always up for a drive. My coupe is roadworthy, although without paint.

I live just south of you. I wouldn't mind driving up to see what you got so far. I haven't ordered my coupe yet, so I like comparing ideas to consider. I've got $26,000 in parts so far.
Michael

[Rhino]

Here's the coupe arriving. I'll try to post pictures of the body buck/dolly after we complete inventory. Oh yes, I'm the happy old guy in the green hat. We were all freezing. The previous day reached sixty degrees. Indiana weather!!!

[TangoUniform]

The kan ban board is just an simple website called trello.com. way easier than a physical board.

[rhk118]

Congrats on the Coupe Rhino! I like your build plan, keep it simple and know what it is. I agree with Namrups on trying to keep everything in your build post but if you have very specific questions on something I've found throwing up a specific question in the general section will get you answers relatively quickly if you need them. Going through everything myself, studying build threads were great, but having the opportunity to see about 6 built coupes now has helped me immensely, so getting to see others' builds and details as you get into the weeds on yours is helpful. One of the coupes I saw had very functional air vents into the cabin from the hood scoops constructed from Cessna parts, and if I have space on my firewall I will be attempting the same.

Also my only tip is if you move something from 1 box to another box or store it somewhere else write it down (I wrote everything on my inventory sheets), because you might not think about those 2 bolts you moved elsewhere for 6 months then completely forget where you put them (not that that has ever happened to me of course )...welcome and have fun!

[Rhino]

The body buck is finished. Inventory is moving along and along and along...Cobra body buck.jpg Some research was done about body bucks. In the end I went my own way.

DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS

Simplicity and ease of construction were important. Wood was chosen over steel. Wood has adequate strength. It can easily be disassembled for reuse. I had lots of scrap wood around.

Mounting was the next issue. The body was transported almost a thousand miles by resting the door sills on the frame rails. No other body support at the rear was used to transport it. A call to one of the Factory 5 techs assured me that development has made the bodies much stronger and more warp resistant. So, the buck will use only the door sills for support.

Balance was the next issue. Much of the body weight is behind the sills. The buck has an extended bottom rail for stability.

Height of the buck was simply a matter of making it a comfortable working level. It will also be used to paint the body so the bottom edge should't be too low. The length of my scrap wood made some difference. Did I mention that there is lots of scrap wood in the garage?

CONSTRUCTION AND WOOD LENGTHS

2 base rails are each 48"
2 sill rails are each 31"
2 cross rails 55 1/4"
4 spacer blocks approx. 6"
6 diagonals approx. 22"
4 verticals 19" (your choice)

The sill rails extend beyond the verticals 1 1/2" onto the spacers. Total width across the sill plates is 58 1/4". The purpose of the spacers is to move the verticals in and away from the bottom of the body. The frame is reasonably square with one exception. The sill plates are kept in plane. Check level across the sill plates at the front and back. Check level along the sill plates. Sight across the sill plates. Cockeyed sill plates could create twist in the body. Diagonals provide rigidity to the whole structure. The photo should provide info to aid in construction. The whole assembly was mounted on four locking caster wheels.

FINAL NOTES
I did not see the need to create supporting bulkheads as is done on roadster bucks. The steps and flanges in the cowl/firewall should be reasonably stiff. The rear fender bulges slope sharply downward, consequently the body would tend to slide down the partial bulkheads and spread outward rather than be supported.

The body hasn't been mounted yet. There may be unanticipated problems with the design. Measure your project before taking my measurements as gospel truth. If you think the design is idiotic. Let me know. My ex-wife got me used to the word idiotic.

Finally, if the need arises to make mods and improvements, I'll let you know.

Terry

[Rhino]

The body is off. It's on the buck, but the measurements were off. The fit is horrible. It will take revision. Complicated projects always seem to involve doing some things twice. The buck will need to support the back of the body. Support under just the door sills may have worked to transport the car here, but it won't work for doing body work. It's just too tail heavy. Support under the rear wheel openings will be the first modification to the body buck.
Body buck.jpg
buck 2.jpg

[Rhino]

The body buck is finished. Inventory is moving along and along and along...Cobra body buck.jpg Some research was done about body bucks. In the end I went my own way.

DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS

Simplicity and ease of construction were important. Wood was chosen over steel. Wood has adequate strength. It can easily be disassembled for reuse. I had lots of scrap wood around.

Mounting was the next issue. The body was transported almost a thousand miles by resting the door sills on the frame rails. No other body support at the rear was used to transport it. A call to one of the Factory 5 techs assured me that development has made the bodies much stronger and more warp resistant. So, the buck will use only the door sills for support.

Balance was the next issue. Much of the body weight is behind the sills. The buck has an extended bottom rail for stability.

Height of the buck was simply a matter of making it a comfortable working level. It will also be used to paint the body so the bottom edge should't be too low. The length of my scrap wood made some difference. Did I mention that there is lots of scrap wood in the garage?

CONSTRUCTION AND WOOD LENGTHS

2 base rails are each 48"
2 sill rails are each 31"
2 cross rails 55 1/4"
4 spacer blocks approx. 6"
6 diagonals approx. 22"
4 verticals 19" (your choice)

The sill rails extend beyond the verticals 1 1/2" onto the spacers. Total width across the sill plates is 58 1/4". The purpose of the spacers is to move the verticals in and away from the bottom of the body. The frame is reasonably square with one exception. The sill plates are kept in plane. Check level across the sill plates at the front and back. Check level along the sill plates. Sight across the sill plates. Cockeyed sill plates could create twist in the body. Diagonals provide rigidity to the whole structure. The photo should provide info to aid in construction. The whole assembly was mounted on four locking caster wheels.

FINAL NOTES
I did not see the need to create supporting bulkheads as is done on roadster bucks. The steps and flanges in the cowl/firewall should be reasonably stiff. The rear fender bulges slope sharply downward, consequently the body would tend to slide down the partial bulkheads and spread outward rather than be supported.

The body hasn't been mounted yet. There may be unanticipated problems with the design. Measure your project before taking my measurements as gospel truth. If you think the design is idiotic. Let me know. My ex-wife got me used to the word idiotic.

Finally, if the need arises to make mods and improvements, I'll let you know.

Terry

The body is on, but the design will need to be modified. Vertical supports will be needed over the rear dolly wheels. These supports will carry a cross brace which will go under the fender openings.

Terry

[460.465USMC]

Hi Terry. I'm a little late to the party, but welcome aboard! Good info. on the body buck. Most of my forum research has been on Roadster stuff, so this is the first Coupe buck I've seen. I'll follow along to see what changes you make to it.

Congrats on delivery day! Like Christmas morning on steroids! Exciting stuff. Thanks in advance for doing a build thread.

[Rhino]

The body buck has been modified from its original configuration, The top longitudinal plates (sill plates) have been extended to four feet in length. Uprights have been added from the rear of the base plates and attached to the sill plate extensions. A cross support was added to the uprights to support the rear fender arches. Notches were cut in the front uprights to clear the bottom edge of the body.
Everything is pretty stable, but it's getting tougher to get inside the buck. It reminds me of the old jungle gyms which were found on every playground when I was a kid.

buck 2.jpg buck3.jpgbuck4.jpg

[Namrups]

During my coupe build I had my body hung from the ceiling.


After the chassis work was complete I mounted the body and completed everything needed to get the car registered. I drove it for a season in gelcoat to work out any bugs.


This winter I have completed the body work. My painter wants to paint it off the chassis so I had to make body bucks for transport/painting.
One for the body:


One for the hood:

[Rhino]

Scott,

Your tall ceiling looks great. My eight foot ceiling and 6'2" height make ceiling storage impractical. Too easy to bump my head and too hard to get under. Using a wheeled body dolly has been a great help here. The chassis is mounted on jack stands. Having it on wheels would have been a bad idea. Judy and I spend far too much time leaning on the chassis as we work. Locking caster wheels have never been a favorite of mine. Too tough to lock and maddening to steer.

Your firewall/plywood bulkhead looks great. The use of pool noodles is also a good choice. The F5 crew assured me that body warpage will be no problem. Some things since then have caused me to take all advice with a grain of salt. With the hot weather starting, I wonder if your body buck setup should be used. Did you use that just for your painter's convenience?

Terry

[Rhino]

It's been a while since the last post. We have been working on the build, but life got in the way. Our older daughter has diabetes and lost a leg. We have spent many hours on the phone at all hours of the day or night. By many hours, I mean on a single call. Keep the cell phone on your charger. I'll start to update the build soon. We have discovered already that having some good hints and tips before starting each step of the build is not only valuable, it's a necessity!

I'll start the update with some general observations. I know that posting in UPPER CASE is considered to be shouting and rude. In some cases, I'll scream AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS. Here goes:

INVENTORY CAREFULLY Write a description on the front of the box. Try putting your individual inventory sheets on the front of every box.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Before every step read the posts. Read the forum. Watch videos. Take all advice with a grain of salt. This isn't just
helpful, it's essential.

That's enough to chew on for a while. Catch you later tonight.

Terry

[Namrups]

Scott,

Your tall ceiling looks great. My eight foot ceiling and 6'2" height make ceiling storage impractical. Too easy to bump my head and too hard to get under. Using a wheeled body dolly has been a great help here. The chassis is mounted on jack stands. Having it on wheels would have been a bad idea. Judy and I spend far too much time leaning on the chassis as we work. Locking caster wheels have never been a favorite of mine. Too tough to lock and maddening to steer.

Your firewall/plywood bulkhead looks great. The use of pool noodles is also a good choice. The F5 crew assured me that body warpage will be no problem. Some things since then have caused me to take all advice with a grain of salt. With the hot weather starting, I wonder if your body buck setup should be used. Did you use that just for your painter's convenience?

Terry

Hi Terry. The body buck was used so the painter and I could move both the body and the hood in multiple directions. After I lined up the body and hood on the car I made alignment marks on both the body and hood. We used these marks and the ability to move the body/hood to get things lined up for laying out the stripes. The criticle location was where the hood met the cowl. When the body/hood was remounted after paint this was the spot where they had to meet perfectly.

Scott

[Rhino]

The posts to the build thread got put on hold. Lesson one was learned quickly. DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Yes, I know that I just shouted. We started by carefully reading along as we built. We should have read way ahead. We also discovered that watching videos was a great help. Reading the threads is great, but seeing the build is a huge help. I'd like to ask one thing from those of you who make videos. If possible, could you put narration on your videos instead of music. Text is good. Video is good. Narration and video are great!

[Rhino]

Our first step in the build was to remove the factory installed aluminum panels. This took an hour and a half. We labeled them carefully. Or, that's what we thought. We went back a couple weeks later to move some boxes. Nothing looked familiar. We numbered the pieces to match the diagram on page 51. We now wish that we had labeled inside/out, up/down, left/right. This is being written long after we pulled the aluminum panels. We thought we were being thorough then, but we found out that a little more attention to detail would have great dividends later.

[Rhino]

Currently we are finishing the IRS brakes. The 15" wheels have a different adapter bracket to keep the caliper close to the axle center. This routes the parking brake cable very close to the CV. To avoid rubbing we made a bracket which bolts to the spindle. The photo shows aluminum test pieces. The final ones will be steel. The steel ones can serve as a washer. Judy and I each worked separate sides. We felt that going over the CV made a slightly cleaner installation. The F5 tech advisor said that builders had success with routing over and under the CV. The mock up photo should give an idea what the final installation will look like when it's bolted to the spindle.
9 brkt.jpgthumbnail.jpg

[Rhino]

The last post was done quickly. By the time I figure out how to post these, my login expires. I'm old, slow and don't do well with computers. It usually takes me a couple tries to get one done. By the time I log back in, the reply has disappeared. I still haven't figured out how to use the auto save.

I wanted to say that the mock up of the bracket is of the right side viewed from the rear. These closeup photos can be tough to figure out. It will, of course, be mounted under the nut, not on top.

I did ask about this in another thread. I should have put it here. I have no idea how to put the threads together. Have patience and I'll eventually figure out how to do this.

Is there a way to keep the login from "timing out" so quickly?

[Rhino]

During my coupe build I had my body hung from the ceiling.


After the chassis work was complete I mounted the body and completed everything needed to get the car registered. I drove it for a season in gelcoat to work out any bugs.


This winter I have completed the body work. My painter wants to paint it off the chassis so I had to make body bucks for transport/painting.
One for the body:


One for the hood:

Scott,
I just came back to your post to take another look. Your buck has some great features. The slotted "bulkheads" are great. I wish I had seen yours before I did mine.
Terry

[Namrups]

Scott,
I just came back to your post to take another look. Your buck has some great features. The slotted "bulkheads" are great. I wish I had seen yours before I did mine.
Terry

Hi Terry. The buck worked very well as it gave us the ability to move both the hood and the body in any direction to be able to line the two together so the stripe lined up.

Scott

[Rhino]

Type 65 IRS brake line routing
It's time to run the hard lines for the brakes. Searches have shown the roadster, but I haven't found photos of the Type 65 yet. Sorting through the posts can be confusing because of format. Many posts are one long, detailed description. It's a little like searching for a needle in a haystack.
This post has a bold-faced title and numbered individual topics. Hopefully, this will make it easier to work through. Indenting the start of each paragraph is also being tried. Let me know if this format makes it easier to sort through this post.

1. Are any photos of a Type 65 IRS brake line installation available? Google searches and using the forum search haven't helped so far.

2. Are there things I can do with my build thread which will make information easier to search? I see that some threads have included an index at the
end of the thread. I'm not that far along yet.

3. The triangulated tubing of the spaceframe chassis make routing tough. Tube intersections, brackets and gussets don't help. Is it necessary to keep
each section of the brake line attached to a frame tube? Or, can some sections of the brake line bridge gaps? How long can a gap be without risking
flex and metal fatigue?

4. Any suggestions about the best location for the "T" fitting?

5. I've bent brake lines in the past, but never anything this complex. My tube bender is old and crude. What benders have worked well for other
builders?

I don't want to do anything which might lead to brake failure. Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I've had brake lines fail twice on me. One car had a single master cylinder. The light was red. The intersection was busy. I was in the left turn lane. I'd like to say that great driving got me through the intersection without crashing. It was blind luck!

Terry

[Kbl7td]

You’re overthinking it. My opinions are strong on this, ditch the SS and use NiCopp. It will bend by hand or with a cheap bender. If you’d like a little more protection for the nicopp you can buy the special stainless coil that wraps around the line and gives a nice finished look.

There shouldn’t be more than one section leading to the rear lines where you’re spanning more than 1ft. Basically the section from the tunnel back to the rear cross bar where it’s a good place to mount the T fitting.

[edwardb]

Type 65 IRS brake line routing
It's time to run the hard lines for the brakes. Searches have shown the roadster, but I haven't found photos of the Type 65 yet. Sorting through the posts can be confusing because of format. Many posts are one long, detailed description. It's a little like searching for a needle in a haystack.
This post has a bold-faced title and numbered individual topics. Hopefully, this will make it easier to work through. Indenting the start of each paragraph is also being tried. Let me know if this format makes it easier to sort through this post.

1. Are any photos of a Type 65 IRS brake line installation available? Google searches and using the forum search haven't helped so far.

2. Are there things I can do with my build thread which will make information easier to search? I see that some threads have included an index at the
end of the thread. I'm not that far along yet.

3. The triangulated tubing of the spaceframe chassis make routing tough. Tube intersections, brackets and gussets don't help. Is it necessary to keep
each section of the brake line attached to a frame tube? Or, can some sections of the brake line bridge gaps? How long can a gap be without risking
flex and metal fatigue?

4. Any suggestions about the best location for the "T" fitting?

5. I've bent brake lines in the past, but never anything this complex. My tube bender is old and crude. What benders have worked well for other
builders?

I don't want to do anything which might lead to brake failure. Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I've had brake lines fail twice on me. One car had a single master cylinder. The light was red. The intersection was busy. I was in the left turn lane. I'd like to say that great driving got me through the intersection without crashing. It was blind luck!

Terry

My build thread has fuel and brake line routings for my Coupe build starting here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post315113. Not the only way to do it, but worked for me. Don't let others discourage you from using SS if you want to build with it. It's more work but makes a nice finished product once you get the hang of it. I've done several builds with it. I referenced the tools I used. I also found practice helped me a lot before committing to final bends and flares.

My build thread also has a table of contents. Others have done it that way too. I've found it's a decent way of finding information and providing to others.

[burchfieldb]

I would reference EdwardB's, Paul's thread, and Greg's Cobra Daytona Build videos, https://youtu.be/83alddmZLTM?si=ZATIfuNadFtCVGHQ. Both are super helpful and are the two that I followed for my build.

[Rhino]

My build thread has fuel and brake line routings for my Coupe build starting here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post315113. Not the only way to do it, but worked for me. Don't let others discourage you from using SS if you want to build with it. It's more work but makes a nice finished product once you get the hang of it. I've done several builds with it. I referenced the tools I used. I also found practice helped me a lot before committing to final bends and flares.

My build thread also has a table of contents. Others have done it that way too. I've found it's a decent way of finding information and providing to others.

I had help from another local Daytona builder. We talked and texted pictures back and forth. It was a great help. I won't get discouraged. The end product is worth some confusion and frustration.

I have bookmarked your index page. Thanks.

Terry