fantastic build! love your electrical diagrams! what software are you using to create those?
Thanks! Much appreciated. I just use Visio for those diagrams (and any diagramming I need to do in general). Not exactly what it is designed for but certainly does the trick and is easily correctable.
Over the weekend I was finally able to start fitting the body shell on the chassis (thanks to everybody for all for all of the “body fitment” tutorials – they were invaluable). And while I the body went on without much issue, it revealed a much larger problem that I have no idea how to address – side-pipe fitment and install.
Generally speaking, my passenger side head is WAAAYYY off (or so I think it is) and I’m not sure about the driver side (it appears off but much more manageable). I have no idea how to fix it without major surgery or purchasing new headers all together – which Is why I now put myself at the mercy of the board.
For background so nobody has to go fishing through the build thread, the engine is a 427W, I have FFR headers (the version with the ball joint), Gas-N side-pipes, and I had FFR cut the holes in the body so the current side pipe openings were formed by FFR at the factory. I have not enlarged the openings at the moment as I wanted to check with the board first.
As you can see in the photos below, if I position the passenger side-pipe so that the bottom of the pipe is more-or-less parallel and even with the bottom edge of the body the alignment is off vertically by almost half the width of the collector. I will say, the side-pipe aperture is extremely tight at the moment such that it is very difficult to maneuver the side-pipe into the position shown, the secondaries are basically touching at the rearmost point and along the top. I will also note that the photos were taken with the sides of the body pushed tight against the chassis (e.g., as far in as possible).
For comparison, the driver side is a bit more palatable, where (under the same alignment conditions) it is only off by half an inch or so. I will note that this aperture is also pretty tight with the secondaries of the side-pipe touching the aperture at the rear and along the top.
So in view of this I’m just at a loss for how to correct these mis-alignments and wasn’t sure if the issue lies with me (e.g., the car as I’ve assembled it) or the parts themselves (e.g., headers wrong shape) or somewhere inbetween. I wanted to talk with the forum before enlarging the openings for fear of cutting something too far and just making the issue worse.
So I was wondering:
1) Has anybody else had this same issue and, if so, how did you address?
2) I was thinking of possibly messing with the engine position, but given both mount pins are already at the top of their respective slots I’m not sure how to nestle it down at all short of modifying the mounts themselves.
3) Does anybody have an idea of how large (e.g., how tall and wide) the side-pipe openings should be once they are finalized so I have an idea of how tight or undersized the current openings may be?
You do need to verify the engine is sitting level with the frame.
I would loosen the ball connector and bolt the headers on the flange.
It looks like you have the ball connectors tightened down in line with the headers. This may or may not be the best position. It looks like, it is not.
With the headers bolted on regardless of their relation to the body, you will have an idea of what wedges and any body cutting you may need to do.
Hope that makes some kind of sense.
Good luck,
20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.
Hi Brew! Padawan learner here. Times 2 on getting the motor as level as possible. I know of another builder who had to adjust the slot in one of his motor mounts.
With the ball flange adapters on my Coyote, I adjusted them to minimize cutting and yet keep them parallel to the ground and body. The adapters ended up a little angled in relation to the header flange, especially on the passenger side. I did not need any wedges, but did need to trim the tops of the exhaust cutouts (I also have the F5 pre-cutouts), as well as the edges. Not sure how Coyote header position compares to your 427W, but thought I'd chime in for an additional data point FWIW.
Chris Coupe complete kit delivered: 4/22/24. Build Thread. Coyote. T-56. IRS w/3.55. Wilwoods. PS. HVAC. Side windows. MK4 Complete kit. Build Thread Index. Delivered: 10/15/2020. Legal: 7/25/23. Coyote Gen3. TKO600 (0.64 OD). IRS w/3.55. PS. Wilwoods. Sway bars. This build is dedicated to my son, Benjamin. Build Thread.
Agree w/ above, loosen the ball joint at it's connection w/ the header and angle it a bit. Might be easier to attach the flange to the side pipe first since there's no adjustment at this location without wedges and figure out where the pipe looks best, then figure out how to connect it to the header at an angle.
Hi Brew! Padawan learner here. Times 2 on getting the motor as level as possible. I know of another builder who had to adjust the slot in one of his motor mounts.
With the ball flange adapters on my Coyote, I adjusted them to minimize cutting and yet keep them parallel to the ground and body. The adapters ended up a little angled in relation to the header flange, especially on the passenger side. I did not need any wedges, but did need to trim the tops of the exhaust cutouts (I also have the F5 pre-cutouts), as well as the edges. Not sure how Coyote header position compares to your 427W, but thought I'd chime in for an additional data point FWIW.
Originally Posted by Railroad
You do need to verify the engine is sitting level with the frame.
I would loosen the ball connector and bolt the headers on the flange.
It looks like you have the ball connectors tightened down in line with the headers. This may or may not be the best position. It looks like, it is not.
With the headers bolted on regardless of their relation to the body, you will have an idea of what wedges and any body cutting you may need to do.
Hope that makes some kind of sense.
Good luck,
Originally Posted by egchewy79
Agree w/ above, loosen the ball joint at it's connection w/ the header and angle it a bit. Might be easier to attach the flange to the side pipe first since there's no adjustment at this location without wedges and figure out where the pipe looks best, then figure out how to connect it to the header at an angle.
Appreciate the input - I can't thank the three of you enough. So from what I'm gathering, I should try to address this in the following steps:
1) Loosen the engine mount bolts and see if I can nestle the engine a bit lower in the cradle. Specifically try to see if I can get the passenger side a bit lower (like a half inch) and the driver side less so (like an 1/8th). Seems like the trick will be to try to compress the engine mounts themselves so the engine sits lower overall - I'm thinking a little bit of downward pressure plus some small knocks on the mount itself with a hammer to see if it will nestle down a bit.
2) To the extent the engine doesn't want to move (or doesn't move enough) I should see if I can get more play out of the ball-joints in the headers themselves to angle down a bit more to see where everything lies.
3) To the extent the top two options don't work, I may need to look into some wedges to seal the gap.
This is good stuff - I'll give this a try.
One last question, are any of you able to provide what the final vertical dimension is (as shown below) for the openings? I understand the two sides are probably different but I was just trying to get an idea of where my openings stand as the ones I see in photos on the board appear to be a good deal larger than what I am currently working with.
So to circle back on my earlier posts, I have come up with a plan of action to address the header/side-pipe fitment issue I've been having.
I spoke with Gordon Levy and will be swapping out the FFR provided engine mounts with a pair of his "thinner" models. In theory, this should drop the engine deeper in the V-saddle of the engine mounts giving me two advantages - 1) both sides will be lower overall (which is needed), and 2) with the mounts lower I should have more flexibility to level out the engine and more accurately position the header outlets. Right now my engine mounts are pinned as high as they can go in the location slots which makes any adjustment really difficult.
I'm hoping the above adjustments should get me within "ball-joint" range for any fine-tuning needed after that.
So to circle back on my earlier posts, I have come up with a plan of action to address the header/side-pipe fitment issue I've been having.
I spoke with Gordon Levy and will be swapping out the FFR provided engine mounts with a pair of his "thinner" models. In theory, this should drop the engine deeper in the V-saddle of the engine mounts giving me two advantages - 1) both sides will be lower overall (which is needed), and 2) with the mounts lower I should have more flexibility to level out the engine and more accurately position the header outlets. Right now my engine mounts are pinned as high as they can go in the location slots which makes any adjustment really difficult.
I'm hoping the above adjustments should get me within "ball-joint" range for any fine-tuning needed after that.
Hopefully good news to follow....
Just make sure you have the clearance available for your oil pan. I am also running the fixed mounts (from Gordon) and it does require a shallower oil pan so it won't hang down below the frame.
Just make sure you have the clearance available for your oil pan. I am also running the fixed mounts (from Gordon) and it does require a shallower oil pan so it won't hang down below the frame.
This concern definitely crossed my mind. I did a bit of measuring and I think I will be ok (barely), but hard to tell until the final mounts are in place. Fingers crossed! Hopefully I will be able to get those mounts swapped out in the next week or two.
This concern definitely crossed my mind. I did a bit of measuring and I think I will be ok (barely), but hard to tell until the final mounts are in place. Fingers crossed! Hopefully I will be able to get those mounts swapped out in the next week or two.
From my experience with my car, running fixed mounts if you have anything deeper than a 7" pan you more than likely will be below the frame.
From my experience with my car, running fixed mounts if you have anything deeper than a 7" pan you more than likely will be below the frame.
Well some measuring now has me officially nervous. I have the Milodon pan and it appears to be 7.5" deep. I have about 0.5" clearance to the bottom of the frame at the back of the pan and a little less than 0.75" at the front.
So I guess the next question is - any suggestions for a thinner pan that will fit the larger stroke of the 427? The related post (talk about timing) on the main board seems to push Aviaid?
Also a side question, you don't find the solid mounts to be too harsh in the vibration department do you? Just trying to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into.
Well some measuring now has me officially nervous. I have the Milodon pan and it appears to be 7.5" deep. I have about 0.5" clearance to the bottom of the frame at the back of the pan and a little less than 0.75" at the front.
So I guess the next question is - any suggestions for a thinner pan that will fit the larger stroke of the 427? The related post (talk about timing) on the main board seems to push Aviaid?
Also a side question, you don't find the solid mounts to be too harsh in the vibration department do you? Just trying to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into.
With a 7.5" pan I think you might end up below the frame, but every car is different so I would try first and see where you land. I went with the Champ 7" deep pan per recommendation of Gordon. I have noticed no excessive vibration issues with fixed mounts, of course it's a 500+ HP engine so you feel some vibration in the car but nothing I would call not normal for a 427. I had the same concerns when I went with the fixed mounts and Gordon assured me if my engine was balanced properly I would have no problems and he was correct. I also know another person in my area who built a roadster running fixed mounts with a 351 who also has had no issues with fixed mounts.
I will also mention with the fixed mounts my side pipes still required 3 wedges on the drivers side to align properly with FFR headers and Gas 'n side pipes. I was more concerned about air cleaner clearance with the PF4 EFI system I am running. Passenger side pipes required no wedges.
So I had to put the engine/side-pipe project on hold temporarily but I do have a pair of Gordon Levy’s engine mounts ready to go once I have a few other items in place. In the meantime, I was able to return my focus to completing the interior – namely, fabricating the glove box and finalizing the dash.
I know there are a few kits available to incorporate glove boxes into the dash but I really wanted to go with the “flush / integrated” look and therefore decided to try to fabricate my own. I have to admit that this project really felt like a true fabricating endeavor – and aside from fabricating the drop trunk from scratch - was probably one of the more difficult tasks of the build so far.
The first step in fabricating the glove box was to decide on the size, shape, and location of the dash opening itself. Again, there are plenty of plans and styles floating around the board but after messing around with various templates and sketches I decided that the below drawing (also taken from the board but I cannot recall where – wish I could give the creator proper credit) seemed to be the best of all. I didn’t end up using the drawing itself but instead went on Visio and was able to create the dimensioned shape described. I then printed the resulting sketch 1:1 and used the cutout for my template. Location was mostly by eye just making sure the bottom was parallel to the bottom of the dash and that the cutout didn’t overlap with any obstructions behind the dash.
Side note – the “support bar” for the dash hoop near the center of the car was the biggest obstruction to avoid, I ended up placing the left-most edge of the opening just to the right of that bar.
With the shape selected, I was then able to use the printed template to start work on the glove box body itself. This was a relatively involved process. The first step was to transmit the template to three 2x6 pieces of wood to create a “mold” of sorts about which to form the metal. My skill saw decided not to play nice with the wood being so thick (the blade kept bending – wish I had a bandsaw) and the resulting wooden block was – shall we say – pretty rough. The overall shape was acceptable though so it was drafted into service – not my finest hour.
With the mold created, I then pre-cut a piece of .040” aluminum for the sidewall of the body itself. One end was secured to the mold using wood screws and the rest “rolled” along the exterior of the block itself to form to the overall exterior shape. The ends were then temporarily riveted together to lock everything in place. The shape wasn’t perfect but I knew that could be refined as fabrication progressed.
The two pieces (side wall and end wall) were then re-positioned on the mold to begin the tabbing process. To make sure the two items remained aligned and straight, I used two pieces of ¾” wood to center the mold within the loop of sidewall material. The end piece was then placed on top and the everything clamped together.
With everything in place, I then used some shears to cut the lip into multiple smaller tabs (making sure to bevel those around the curved portions). The tabs were then hammered over using the mold as a sort of dolly. A few things learned from this process: 1) make sure to secure the side-wall loop to the mold using a few screws otherwise things will shift while hammering, and 2) getting the mold back out can be really PITA – we had to put it in vice and really give it a few hard whacks with a hammer to get it out – which resulted in dents in our end wall. Lesson learned.
Everything was then locked in place using some rivets for added strength. I did include some JBWeld under the tabs but that didn’t seem to take very well.
The final step for the glove box body was to flare out the open end to provide tabs for securing the glove box body to the dashboard itself. This was relatively straight forward. The number and location of the tabs can be changed as needed – in the end I decided to try to keep it simple, plenty across the top and bottom where the forces would be located when loaded with items, and two smaller tabs to just keep the ends in place.
PART 2 – Wrapping the Dashboard and Mounting the Glovebox to the Dash
With the glovebox body fabricated it was time to wrap the dashboard and attach the body to the dash itself. First step was to align the glovebox body with the hole in the dash and mark the location of all the tabs. You will notice that I had already cut the hole in the dashboard by this time using the original template.
With the alignment made, we drilled what will ultimately be the mounting holes and then temporarily secured the glovebox in place using clecos. With the glove box attached, we then re-installed the dash to check for clearance. It was a tight fit (especially with the Wilwood e-brake module installed in that area – which was anticipated) but in the end 4.5” internal pocket-depth (measured flange to the back wall) seemed to fit just fine while still allowing for enough clearance in the back to install the charging ports.
Drawing from others who have gone before me in this space, I decided to use some 6-32 bolts in the front surface of the dash as my mounting points. I used a counter-sink bit to make sure the heads of the bolts ran flush with the top surface of the dash itself.
The biggest issue I ran into was how to make sure the bolts wouldn’t move after I wrapped the dash in leather as I would no longer have access to the bolt head. In the end I decided to secure the bolts to the dashboard with a nut to make sure the bolt was held in place securely even with the glovebox removed (this would also allow me to take the glovebox on and off as needed during the entire fabrication process). I will note that the heads of the countersunk bolts were actually thicker than the sheet metal itself (FFR’s 0.040” aluminum) so I needed to also include a washer so the bolts would actually be held tight to the dash. Together, the nut and washer created a bit bigger gap than I originally wanted (about an 1/8”) but we address that issue a bit later in the build.
With the bolts secured and a few other small items taken care of, I finally felt I was ready to wrap the dashboard in leather. I have absolutely no experience with upholstery so it was a bit nerve-racking to start digging into the dash after all the time that was invested into it up to this point. But proceed we did.
First step on the wrapping process was to putty and sand the outer surface to make it perfectly smooth and to cover the various bolt heads. We also saw a few dents and knicks from all the mocking up that we tried to cover up.
With the “bodywork” completed, it was time to pull out the padding. I ended up using 1/8” Volara Closed Cell Foam. I wanted a padded but tight look (if that makes sense). I did a test panel earlier in the build and this stuff seemed to do the trick. I also have to admit that it was pretty easy to work with so long as you made sure to keep you razor blade sharp and cut against a hard surface such as a piece of plywood. As for adhesive, 3M 77 was the order of the day. I ended up rolling out the foam on a clean table, spraying the dash itself, laying the dash on the foam. After waiting a few minutes for the glue to set, I then trimmed along the edges of the metal itself. Worked like a charm.
One item that we added was a second layer of foam on the back side of the glovebox opening. This was intended to serve two purposes – 1) to help fill the gap created by the bolt/washer combo discussed earlier, and 2) to allow us to get a larger “radius” on the leather as it wrapped through the aperture to help with aesthetics and positioning the door.
With the foam glued and trimmed, the final step was the actual leather wrapping itself. Again, we began by laying the leather face-down on a clean table and making sure it was as flat as possible. We then sprayed the dashboard and laid the dash down onto the leather. For materials, the leather I ended up going with was “EO#13 Black Beauty” from the “Leather Hide Store.” The leather was very high quality and Leather Hide Store was great to work with. They sell sample sizes which is nice in this online age of purchasing. I think they had like 6 different “blacks” that I looked into. 3M 77 was the glue of choice again.
As for the edge wrapping, we ended up leaving about ¾” around the entire outer edge of the dash making notches and wedge cuts as needed to accommodate the contour. We tried to only spray the adhesive in the areas we were working in to keep overspray and the mess down. The wrapping for the glove-box aperture was much larger (2 inches if I remember correctly) since we were now wrapping around two 1/8” layers of foam instead of just one. In all, I was very happy with the results.
Nice job. I really think some of the most time-consuming parts of the build end up being the most rewarding (while at times the most challenging). It will be great to be able to point to the dash and say you did it from scratch.
MK4 #7838: IRS 3.55 TrueTrac T5z Dart 347
The drawing is from ~7th grade, mid-1970s
Meandering, leisurely build thread is here
This is so cool, great job. I know it's a lot of work and more difficult than it you make it appear, but your write-up gives me a little confidence to tackle it myself. Did you ever consider using fiberglass to create the box?
This is so cool, great job. I know it's a lot of work and more difficult than it you make it appear, but your write-up gives me a little confidence to tackle it myself. Did you ever consider using fiberglass to create the box?
Well, Fixit had a fun story about how not to do it ...
MK4 #7838: IRS 3.55 TrueTrac T5z Dart 347
The drawing is from ~7th grade, mid-1970s
Meandering, leisurely build thread is here
Nice job. I really think some of the most time-consuming parts of the build end up being the most rewarding (while at times the most challenging). It will be great to be able to point to the dash and say you did it from scratch.
Agree completely, especially with something as closely viewed as the dash. Plus working on these things is half the enjoyment.
This is so cool, great job. I know it's a lot of work and more difficult than it you make it appear, but your write-up gives me a little confidence to tackle it myself. Did you ever consider using fiberglass to create the box?
Great to hear. The one thing I told myself before digging into this project was that, aside from cutting the hole in the dash, everything for the glovebox could be re-made if it didn't turn out (e.g., the door and the glovebox body itself). So that helps to take the stress down a bit to know you can always re-do things if need be.
That said, if you do decide to try and have any questions, let me know.
As for fiberglass, I saw that others tried fiberglass but I was pretty set on making it from aluminum from the beginning. I think the flexiblity of the shape you can make with fiberglass is probably pretty helpful if you really want to maximize space but I wasn't too hard-up on that front as I figure I probably won't put more than sunglasses and a phone in there. Plus I trust my metal working skills a lot more than my fiberglass skills.
Last edited by BrewCityCobra; 08-22-2023 at 10:59 AM.
Looks good. I went with the carbon fiber dash and had to modify the glove box drastically. Turned out pretty well and I love the custom gauge layout you did.
Looks good. I went with the carbon fiber dash and had to modify the glove box drastically. Turned out pretty well and I love the custom gauge layout you did.
With the dash wrapped it was time to start populating the dash with gauges and switches. This was a step I’ve been looking forward to for some time – finally get to see how the padding and leather looks assembled. It was also the moment of truth for the switches, ignition, and LEDS to make sure they would fit in their “thicker” home. The answer was – just barely - but I really like the final look, just a bit of “cushion” but not too much.
One thing I wasn’t sure about was how to go about cutting the various hole sizes in the leather without ruining anything. This is the system I came up with (others may differ). LARGE HOLES (all gauges and steering aperture) were pie cut using a razor blade then wrapped behind and secured with 3M 77 glue. MEDIUM HOLES (Ignition switch and Lucas Switches) were trimmed by hand around the perimeter using an Exacto knife. SMALL HOLES (LEDs) were drilled out using an undersized drill bit. In the end, the install for the various elements turned out nice and clean and smooth.
With the dash populated, I was ready to move onto the glove box door. For the layout, I took some inspiration from EdwardB’s design, going for the two-piece “sandwich” layout that would result in finished leather on both sides. Major difference is that I wanted a bit more heft for my door so I went with a piece of 0.040” aluminum sheet metal for the exterior panel and 1/8” aluminum plate for the interior panel. The 1/8” plate was also thick enough to allow me to drill and tap holes for the hinge bolts (more on that later) and resulted in the door itself feeling nice and heavy and solid.
I wanted to door to be a pretty tight fit against the aperture in the dash itself so I ended up making a second pattern by tracing the aperture in the dashboard as it was shaped post-leather wrap. I then used the new pattern to cut the above-described piece of 0.040” aluminum sheet metal. Using the steps described in the previous post I then applied 1/8” padding and wrapped the entire assembly in leather – all with 3M 77 glue. A hole was also cut for the latch whose position was decided by eye.
The same second pattern was then used to cut the 1/8” plate which was also wrapped in leather using 3M 77 glue. No padding used for this side. I also drilled and tapped the eight holes for the hinges at this time using a 6-32 tap.
With both sides ready to go, I then needed to combine the two while keeping the package free of fasteners. Here was a bit of a conundrum. My biggest concern was the forces applied to the handle when somebody is opening or closing the door – I didn’t want adhesive alone to be what was holding the two halves together. Fortunately, the latch was large (e.g., long) enough so that it would pass completely through both panels and be secured from back with the provided fastener mechanically. Basically all pulling force applied to the handle will be transmitted directly to the ¼” plate via the handle itself – so the 0.040” front plate is just there for aesthetics not load bearing in any way. Eventually I’m going to apply some form of glue to help keep the two sides aligned but for now the latch alone seems to be doing the job by itself and allows for final adjustments. As for the hinges, they are secured using 6-32 x ¼” stainless bolts from McMaster.
With the door ready, it was then time to try to align and mount the hinges. The floor of my glovebox was a bit low relative to the bottom edge of the opening in the glovebox so I needed to fabricate a set of spacers - 3/16” aluminum plate for the left side and ¼” for the right to bridge the gap. These spacers shouldn’t have been required but came about as a result of me needing to position the glovebox body a bit lower than I wanted to make sure everything lined up. Building tip – make the glovebox body a bit larger next time (e.g., more clearly oversized) so I have more maneuverability to make everything align as needed. It’s not an end of the world issue but just another landmine to deal with. In the end, it only took two or three bites at the apple to make everything fit.
With the door in place, next step was the fit the “stop” (formed from a leather-wrapped piece of 0.040” aluminum) and the latch pawl (also a piece of 0.040” aluminum). Again, some massaging was necessary to make sure everything fit and looked nice but I think it turned out all right.
Once everything was back together I installed the charging ports and was able to check this part of the build off the list. Next steps will be re-installing the electrical and getting everything ready for final attachment to the chassis. Almost there!
The last few weeks have been a bit of two steps forward, one step back.
ENGINE:
On the engine front, I was finally able to swap out the standard issue FFR engine mounts for the solid mounts purchased from Gordon Levy. The hope was to use the solid mounts to lower the engine and provide more positional flexibility so I can align the side-pipes with the pre-cut openings in the body. As for the fit, time will tell, but the flexibility to move the engine around is certainly improved. With the FFR mounts there was little to no ability to roll the engine (or really move it at all). With the new mounts I can now rotate the engine about the roll axis several degrees in either direction. I’m hoping to test-fit the body soon to see if everything fits. I’ll make sure to update the thread when that happens.
As for the step back, my worst fear when swapping the mounts was realized – the oil pan now extends about an 1/8” below the frame rails. My existing pan was a 7.5” deep Milodon pan so my plan is to now swap that pan out with the Aviaid 6.5” Daytona Coupe Pan (P/N 155-55363). More on that later but we aren’t out of the woods yet.
DASHBOARD:
On the dashboard front, I was finally able to get everything re-connected and installed for what (I hope) is the last time.
As part of the final assembly I finally got to try out my “end wing” concept. I have always felt the edges of the dashboard were bent a bit too sharply such that the curve doesn’t match the lip of the body quite right. My original plan, like most, was to just tuck the wings on the inner edge of the two door mounts, but I felt it may be better to try to allow the wings to expand outwardly a bit.
My solution was to create a pair of brackets against which the wings would rest and trim the wings to give clearance to the door brackets themselves. This way the wings could have a larger radius of curvature (more closely matching the lip of the body) but still have some degree of flexibility in the sense they are not bolted down. I’m curious to see how everything looks once the body is on, but so far I’m happy with the results.
The second half of the install was finalizing the underside of the dash. I posted on this earlier but the general idea was to incorporate reinforced mounting points into the underside of the dash to permit the use of cell phone docks while keeping the mounting points themselves hidden.
I’ve since expanded on that concept adding more mounting points along the entire length of the dash to accommodate the ever-controversial cobra cup holders. When installed the cup holders are certainly a bit bulky (see below), but the idea is that they compensate for that with their flexibility (they can be mounted almost anywhere along the length of the dash and adjusted as needed from there), and the best part is that when not in use there is no evidence they ever existed.
As for my step back, after re-connecting all of the electronics and confirming everything was in working order, I was greeted by a “bad UART connection” error in my SpeedHut GPS speedometer.
The terrifying aspect of this error is that, while the dash is designed to be removable once the body is on, it would be quite the undertaking (and theoretical) so for all intents and purposes I consider it permanent. So if this error rears its head after the body is on for good it could really be a problem.
For now, I had a few conversations with SpeedHut and they indicated they have only heard of this error in one other instance (lucky me). As an initial solution they sent me a new GPS sensor which, for now, seems to do the trick. I still got a bit to go before paint (hopefully middle of next year) so we will see if the error turns up again. Fingers crossed!
Just a small update as attention shifts to installing the carpet and finishing the cockpit generally.
The first item on the list is to fabricate and install a dead-pedal. I’ve been scouring the boards for a while now trying to get a feel for the different ways people approached this problem but, in the end, decided to keep it simple (probably the first time I can say that for this build). While I was a bit hesitant to attach the dead pedal directly to the sheet-metal side wall - I decided it was OK so long as the dead-pedal itself was stiff enough and the footprint of the dead-pedal resting against the side-wall was large enough.
Enter McMaster-Carr.
The foundation for this pedal is a 2” x 3” x ¼” piece of 90 degree aluminum. The idea behind this selection was to have a longer “Base” leg to help distribute the load over the aluminum side panel. The thickness is probably more than needed – but there is nothing quite like excess.
As for the pedal itself, I went for a drilled pattern to try to somewhat correspond with the aesthetic of the other pedals – specifically the two Wilwood foot pads. [I’m still considering swapping out the Russ Thompson pad – but haven’t made a final decision on that yet]]. The pattern was drilled using my press with a standard bit in the middle opened up with a countersink bit. For size, the pedal pad itself is 2” wide by 4” tall.
As for mounting, I ended up securing the pedal to the side panel of the driver footbox using four 5/16-18” bolts and corresponding riv-nuts. A quick test-fit seems to indicate that the assembly is pretty solid. As for location, I tried to set it at about the same height as and slightly ahead of (e.g., closer to the driver) the clutch pedal. The idea being that it allows your foot to slide over to the clutch without getting caught.
As part of the dead pedal install I also took my first run at installing a few of the smaller pieces of carpet. For carpet I’ve decided to go with the Welwood All Weather Outdoor Carpet Adhesive. So far – so good. It is pretty forgiving time-wise which is nice for getting the panels in place. Time will tell on some of the more intense pieces going forward.
Thanks for doing all the work on this, that was going to be my plan at the time when i get there. I also thought about a little non-skid tape on the dead pedal. Breeze has the gas pedal pads that match the Wilwood.
Just a small update as attention shifts to installing the carpet and finishing the cockpit generally.
The first item on the list is to fabricate and install a dead-pedal. I’ve been scouring the boards for a while now trying to get a feel for the different ways people approached this problem but, in the end, decided to keep it simple (probably the first time I can say that for this build). While I was a bit hesitant to attach the dead pedal directly to the sheet-metal side wall - I decided it was OK so long as the dead-pedal itself was stiff enough and the footprint of the dead-pedal resting against the side-wall was large enough.
Enter McMaster-Carr.
The foundation for this pedal is a 2” x 3” x ¼” piece of 90 degree aluminum. The idea behind this selection was to have a longer “Base” leg to help distribute the load over the aluminum side panel. The thickness is probably more than needed – but there is nothing quite like excess.
As for the pedal itself, I went for a drilled pattern to try to somewhat correspond with the aesthetic of the other pedals – specifically the two Wilwood foot pads. [I’m still considering swapping out the Russ Thompson pad – but haven’t made a final decision on that yet]]. The pattern was drilled using my press with a standard bit in the middle opened up with a countersink bit. For size, the pedal pad itself is 2” wide by 4” tall.
As for mounting, I ended up securing the pedal to the side panel of the driver footbox using four 5/16-18” bolts and corresponding riv-nuts. A quick test-fit seems to indicate that the assembly is pretty solid. As for location, I tried to set it at about the same height as and slightly ahead of (e.g., closer to the driver) the clutch pedal. The idea being that it allows your foot to slide over to the clutch without getting caught.
As part of the dead pedal install I also took my first run at installing a few of the smaller pieces of carpet. For carpet I’ve decided to go with the Welwood All Weather Outdoor Carpet Adhesive. So far – so good. It is pretty forgiving time-wise which is nice for getting the panels in place. Time will tell on some of the more intense pieces going forward.
FWIW, during my go-kart stage, I decided to move my dead pedal back about an inch further from the clutch pedal. I kept finding that my foot would get stuck either between the the two or slightly on both when I tried to press on the clutch. Also, this made the motion of raising my foot to press the clutch a more natural move rather than just moving it over to the right. Also, the foot rest now seems in a perfect location. Hard to tell in this picture, but the pedal box is actually about an inch behind the clutch pedal.
Thanks for doing all the work on this, that was going to be my plan at the time when i get there. I also thought about a little non-skid tape on the dead pedal. Breeze has the gas pedal pads that match the Wilwood.
Glad you found it helpful! Yeah, I considered non-skid tape but decided against it for now (with the understanding I can always add it later if need be). I figure after a few go-cart runs it will become pretty obvious if I need it or not.
Appreciate the tip on the Breeze pedal - I'll have to check that out.
FWIW, during my go-kart stage, I decided to move my dead pedal back about an inch further from the clutch pedal. I kept finding that my foot would get stuck either between the the two or slightly on both when I tried to press on the clutch. Also, this made the motion of raising my foot to press the clutch a more natural move rather than just moving it over to the right. Also, the foot rest now seems in a perfect location. Hard to tell in this picture, but the pedal box is actually about an inch behind the clutch pedal.
Location was by far my biggest concern so I'll have to take this into consideration during my go-carts once the weather turns. My pictures do make it look a bit further forward than it really is but I did try to make the pedal small enough that you could extend your leg beyond it if you want to stretch. Hopefully not too much of an issue.
So production dropped off a bit over the winter but with the onset of good weather I’m hoping to hit the ground running. Sounds like I may have a painter slot opening in the next few months so I’m getting ready to put the hammer down to get the car wrapped and ready for paint. Should have a good run of updates over the next few months.
With that said, my dad was in town so our plan was to nail down some of the “two-man” projects I had pilling up, namely, to finalize the position of the engine, finalize the header/side-pipe fitment, and test-fit the body shell to make sure everything jives.
Earlier in the build, some may recall that I had swapped out the stock engine mounts provided by FFR for a pair of Gordon Levy’s solid drop mounts. The reason for this switch was because the FFR headers were not even remotely close to matching up with the cutouts in the side of the body. Not only did the headers not match up, they motor mounts were so tight in the frame that there was effectively no room for adjustment.
With the solid mounts the engine now has a good deal of flexibility about the “roll” axis so the height of the header collectors can be raised and lowered as needed. The whole engine itself also dropped an inch or two which brought both headers into a much more manageable position.
In the end, we used washers between the header and the side-pipe as stand-ins for future wedges and by playing around with how many were stacked in each corner were able to get the side-pipes to both extend through the original cutouts and properly align the pipes relative to the body. The cutouts are admittedly a little tight but I’ll allow my painter to trim that as necessary once the body is in the final position. We wanted to err on the side of having things too small so there is material to be removed for final fitment during the painting process. The key at this point was just to confirm general fitment and alignment so we could lock down the engine.
With the side-pipes fitted, we locked the engine in place torquing all the necessary hardware. We also measured how thick our washer stacks were at each corner. Surprisingly, no “spacer” will need to be thicker than about 0.3 of an inch, so that seems pretty good.
With those measurements, the future goal is to have a pair of custom spacers machined to reproduce (more-or-less) to the measured distances. Theoretically, this concept should provide perfect placement with a single spacer so less joints and chance for leaks. I will report back with how that works.
Glad you got the sidepipe alignment issues pretty well sorted out. I'm not quite to that part of my build, but I did have a question about how your hydraulic reservoirs fit with the body on your chassis now.
I guess they fit fine since you didn't mention it. I noticed your reservoir bracket mounts to the bottom of the 3/4" tube. Is the vertical portion of your reservoir bracket more or less flush with the body flange in that same real estate?
My bracket will be mounted horizontally to the 3/4" tube and wondered (before I test fit it myself), if you had any fitment issues. Here's a picture of my mock-up with an 1/8" panel thickness reservoir bracket thickness.jpg
Also, did you had to lower the reservoirs once you fit the body (and hood)?
Glad you got the sidepipe alignment issues pretty well sorted out. I'm not quite to that part of my build, but I did have a question about how your hydraulic reservoirs fit with the body on your chassis now.
I guess they fit fine since you didn't mention it. I noticed your reservoir bracket mounts to the bottom of the 3/4" tube. Is the vertical portion of your reservoir bracket more or less flush with the body flange in that same real estate?
My bracket will be mounted horizontally to the 3/4" tube and wondered (before I test fit it myself), if you had any fitment issues. Here's a picture of my mock-up with an 1/8" panel thickness reservoir bracket thickness.jpg
Also, did you had to lower the reservoirs once you fit the body (and hood)?
Appreciate your feedback
Craig C
So I did not have any clearance issues but I did not fit the hood at all (probably should have now that I think of it). If I understand your question correctly, the top of each reservoir is below the top of the corresponding 3/4" tube. The mount is also spaced far enough inward so that there is no interference with the shell itself (the shell "hugs" the top and inside lips of the 3/4" tube). With that said, because I used the stock mounts, there is a decent amount of vertical adjustment available if I would need to move the reservoirs down a bit for more clearance.
I took a few pictures that hopefully help a bit on where everything stands:
With the side-pipes in “good enough for now” mode, I removed the shell and got back to finalizing the chassis with the expectation that next time the shell goes on will be the last time before the car goes off to paint.
Next up, the carpet and seats.
Now these two projects kind of occurred simultaneously but in order to get as many pictures as possible into this thread, I tried to split everything up into a few posts. Hopefully everything still makes sense.
For the carpet, the first thing I wanted to do was incorporate a wear pad into the inner wall of the driver’s footbox. I’m not crazy about how close that “bend” is to the accelerator and I figured the vinyl pad would help limit wear and provide a smoother surface for my foot to run along.
Given the tight gap between the wall and the accelerator pedal, I was also hoping to “embed” the pad into the carpet as best as possible to keep that gap as large as possible. To do so I decided to give the carpet a bit of a haircut - literally.
After figuring out where I wanted to locate the panel, I taped off the area where the panel would be positioned and used a beard trimmer to cut away the pile from the carpet backing. It took a while given how tough the pile was but in the end the result was a nice clean recess.
To secure the panel in place, I then glued the panel to the carpet (using Weldwood All-Weather Carpet Adhesive - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and then ran a stitch along the perimeter using an upholstery needle and heavy duty thread. If you look closely in the third picture you can see the stitch along the perimeter to lock everything into place. The result was a secure panel but it was noticeably more stiff than the rest of the carpet piece – making install a bit more difficult but not too bad.
With the panel in place, it was finally time to start installing the carpet in the car. For my install I ended up going with a combination of Weldwood and 3M 90 spray adhesive. The Weldwood served as the primary adhesive being used almost everywhere with the 3M 90 only being used for difficult spots where extra hold was needed. As a first-timer in upholstery, the extra play provided by the Weldwood was critical to make sure all the panels were properly positioned before everything got locked down. Once in place, a roller was used to make sure everything was seated and smooth.
One of the locations where the 3M 90 spray was used was along the “bend” on the inside of the driver footbox where the heel pad was positioned. After getting the passenger side, middle, and majority of the driver side of that particular panel of carpet in place using the Weldwood (effectively assuring the panel was properly positioned), I then sprayed the 3M 90 along the inside wall of the driver-side and laid the panel into place. Result was a perfect fit and the 3M made sure the particularly stiff panel stayed tight to the wall along the bend.
As a side note, I did find it helpful to remove my Russ Thompson accelerator pedal to help with the install, and then put it back into place once everything was setup and dry.
With the panel piece in place, it was then just a matter of installing the rest of the carpet pieces, using primarily the Weldwood and supplementing where needed with the 3M 90. A little bit of trimming was needed on most panels but nothing severe. I also made sure to burn/melt apertures into the carpet using a pipe and propane torch before fitting the carpet panels for the last time.
As I continue to work toward finalizing the seats and trunk area, I took some time to finish a few side-quests to help finalize the chassis.
The first project was to finally close up the driver-side footbox. I’ve read similar accounts on the board, but there is just a strange feeling of “finality” that comes with closing that space. A bit of a “holy crap I might actually finish this thing” feeling. An exciting milestone.
When closing out the driver-side footbox I did partake in two small modifications. The first was to swap out the “slot cover” that normally overlaps with the end wall of the footbox and is a bit unsightly – for a flush piece (see above). A purely aesthetic addition.
The second modification was to add a second access cover to the outside of the footbox. I understand that this panel will be inaccessible once the body is on the car, but the idea here was to allow emergency access to the hydraulic clutch master cylinder in a worse case scenario. From all the talk on the board about failing master cylinders, I thought if mine did fail, removing the body would be a huge PITA, but at least I wouldn’t have to permanently damage the driver-side footbox panels if that part would need to be replaced. Basically, now that portion of the footbox can be accessed in a difficult, but completely non-destructive manner.
The panel itself is a C-TEK unit that works with in conjunction with a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery tender/charger. To wire the panel in, I ended up running the positive wire to the hot side of the battery cutoff switch (so the battery can be charged even when the car itself is shut-down for the winter and the battery key removed). The system also came with an inline 15 AMP fuse that I had to cut out and re-wire with the fuse holder pictured above on account that the provided holder would be inaccessible without disassembling the dash.
The reason I put the panel under the dash instead of in the engine compartment (as I originally planned) was because I wanted the panel to be in a location where I could plug in the tender and put a cover on the car for the winter without issue. That meant anything in the trunk or engine compartment was less desirable as it would require those items to be left open or at least partially ajar. The idea is that the cockpit is accessible even with the doors closed and a cover on the car.
BRAKE BIAS KNOB
The last side-quest was to get the brake bias knob installed. The biggest decision here was location. I’ve since seen some really nice hidden mounting spots on the underside of the driver footbox but unfortunately I saw those too late. Early on in the build I had decided I wanted to position the brake bias knob between the seats next to the Battery cutoff switch.
The only real problem solving for mounting in that location was deciding how to run the cable in a semi-clean way. The best solution I could come up with was running the cable through the combined internal upper-footbox / behind the dash space, then out through the cable openings, and finally to the knob itself. In the end, I was pretty happy with how that turned out and now I can adjust my brake bias – likely one time during the entire car’s existence – Hah.
For this build, I went with the FFR Vinyl Roadster seats. They seem comfortable enough but if the car ends up on the track more regularly I may need to switch to something with a bit more support and a high-back in the future. But for now, still trying to maintain the semi-60’s authentic look.
I also had a few “features” that I was hoping to incorporate into the seats that drove many of the design decisions – 1) adjustable sliders, 2) a properly positioned submarine belt, and 3) heated seats.
SEAT MOUNTS
First up was to develop a seat mounting system for the sliders. The design is a “plate sandwich” design using two 1/8” aluminum plates positioned above and below the sliders. As for the sliders themselves, I ended up going with a set of Recaro sliders for this build. I always liked the “Cross-bar” style of release mechanism and this was the only set I could find that provided that option. The key was to mount the sliders inverted so that the release bar attaches along the outside of the sliders instead of along the inside so the width matches the narrower FFR seats.
The “upper” set of plates are positioned between the sliders and the seat itself. They serve two purposes, the first is to act as a spacer to keep the sliders from rubbing against the vinyl (I didn’t want any rubbing as I figured that was just a matter of time before something snagged or ripped). The second is to serve as a mounting location for my electrical pouch (discussed below).
The “lower” set of plates are positioned between the sliders and the floor. The purpose of these plates was to strengthen the connection between the sliders and the frame. When the seat was set in place I found that only 1 of the 4 mounting bolts actually went through the provided “seat plate” in the frame. By adding these plates I increase the mounting locations to 8 total, with 3 going through the “seat plate” and two being threaded directly into the frame itself. As you can see in the below picture, the rear plate also doubles as a reinforced mounting location for the submarine belt. The front plate is reinforced with a ¾” aluminum bar for rigidity.
As for the submarine belt, I purchased a set of plastic bezels and cut the appropriate holes through the seat and heat pads.
Side Note: At first I tried gluing the bezels in place – that was a mistake as all it did was create a bunch of gunk that looked terrible. I ultimately had to remove the glue and clean the vinyl. Second time around I just let friction hold the bezel in place and that seems to work much better.
As for the strap itself, the strap passes through the bezel and is then threaded through the seat elements where it is bolted to the above-described mounting location in the lower aluminum plate. The manner in which the strap passes through the members of the seats (picture is not the best) helps make sure the forces are directed vertically and not backwards at the point of connection.
The heated seats are a standard COBRAHEAT kit that many on the board have used. Installation of the heat pads themselves was pretty straight forward – although nerve-wracking when I had to start pulling apart the cushions.
For wiring, I was having trouble coming up with a solution that would allow for the necessary seat movement and still be aesthetically pleasing. I ended up coming-up with an “electrical pouch” concept. Basically, I mounted a small leather pouch to the upper plates of my mounting solution behind the seats. All the wires were then packed in that case. This had a few advantages: 1) easy access to the wiring should I ever need to fix anything, and 2) there is only one “loose” wire lead that needs to compensate for the motion of the seat as the whole assembly moves together with the seat itself.
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Originally Posted by toadster
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