who's building a Gen4 Coyote?

[toadster]

curious to see the differences!! and what FFR is doing to help make it work

[gbranham]

Ford is building the Gen4 Coyote...not sure anyone on this forum is, though.

[michael everson]

I have seen a couple of them up close. the single throttle body engine looks almost identical to the gen 3. Would not know the difference at first glance. One thing that did change is the header bolt pattern on just one side of the engine. Driver side I think. Weird. The 4 center bolts have been flipped.

Mike

[ThickCobra]

I will also be curious as to what all the differences are as I’m considering installing the coyote in my upcoming planned build. And I understand Factory Five is working on a header that fits the new exhaust bolt configurations. I was told by factory five that if you’re purchasing a kit at this time to hold off on the header option.

I am also curious as to the suggested lead-times between receiving the cobra kit and securing a GEN four coyote motor. Since there’s no real build to do with the engine, there would not be a need, I believe, in buying the engine too early. The last car I built took two years and I didn’t do anything with the engine for almost 9 months and it sat in my garage. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[gbranham]

I feared some of these subtle changes and the time it would take FFR and the 3rd party vendor community to develop solutions for the Gen4. For these reasons, I abandoned my Coyote plans, sold all my kit-specific Coyote parts, and went with a 427 stroker. When I ordered my kit last spring, I didn't anticipate Ford discontinuing the Gen3 crates; I was totally caught off guard when they announced this a few months back. I should've seen it coming. In the end, I'm glad I went with a pushrod SBF; it's what I know well, and I do love the sound of a cammed-up pushrod engine. I look forward to seeing the builds of the Gen4 pioneers!

[Alan_C]

Check with Forte, since he puts packages together, I imagine he will be working on a solution. Along the same lines, Factory Five may be doing the same as they will want to put together a Gen 4 specific Coyote package.
Someone has to be first and the pathfinder for everyone else.

[JohnK]

For headers, I would check with Georgie at Gas-N. Knowing him, he may already be working on the gen4 headers, and if not I'm sure he will come up with something shortly that will be first class.

[FFinisher]

The other issue is there is no control pack at this time. Unsure what the Electonic differences may be. I too have seen several outward appearances is the same, except as indicated the header bolt pattern on one side.

[fauxbra5.0]

The other issue is there is no control pack at this time. Unsure what the Electonic differences may be. I too have seen several outward appearances is the same, except as indicated the header bolt pattern on one side.

That isn't true. Ford is currently offering several Control Packs for the Gen 4X based on transmission (Manual & Auto).

• Gen 4X Coyote Control Pack w/ Manual Transmission (M-6017-M50HM) - $2,650
• Gen 4X Coyote Control Pack w/ Automatic Transmission (M-6017-M50HA) - $2,650

They are also available on Summit with ship dates of 8/19 for $2,317.99.

If you really want to deal with the dual throttle bodies, FP states that you use the Gen 3 control pack (M-6017-M50B)

[TXeverydayDad]

I’m building with a Gen 4x. Expect to purchase the engine/trans during Aug and start working through the new challenges.

[fauxbra5.0]

I’m building with a Gen 4x. Expect to purchase the engine/trans during Aug and start working through the new challenges.

Thats my plan as well. I don't believe the dual air boxes with the standard G4 will fit under the hood without some significant shoehorning. An added benefit is that the G4X seems to be just a G3 with a steel pan (uses the same Control Pack)and is already tune-able where the G4X is locked at the moment. I'll happily sacrifice the 20hp for ease of install and functionality, and could make up for it with a better tune.

[Windsor]

An added benefit is that the G4 seems to be just a G3 with a steel pan (uses the same Control Pack)and is already tune-able where the G4X is locked at the moment.

I think you have the terminology backwards. The G4x is the single-TB and uses the G3 control module, which is tune-able.

The G4 (dual TB) currently has a locked ECM.

[fauxbra5.0]

You are correct @windsor - fat fingered the reply!

[topherchrisb]

I got word from Forte a couple days ago about the 4x engine package I ordered from him a couple months ago. He has the engines in hand but there ended up being some sort of interference with the oil pickup and the moroso pans. He's working with moroso to create a pickup solution that works. He also says he's waiting for the control packs. I understood that the 4x still used the gen 3 pack... so I'm guessing it's just a demand issue for those right now.

I watched a youtube a week ago or so that mentioned the oiling solution is quite a bit different... especially on the f150 package cause of the cylinder shut off. They show some type of new cam carrier/valve package as well. I wasn't clear if that was only for the f150 also though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EfUlDEM2GI

[Dave Howard]

I'm close to ordering my second build. It will be another Coyote (G4X this time) with Whipple 3.0 forced induction. I'm just waiting to see if FFR will announce a 30th Anniversary Edition roadster

[460.465USMC]

I know it's still a bit early, but now that Ford released the ECU control pack, and F5 updated their Coyote fitment instructions for the Gen 4X, I'm wondering if anyone has experience yet with fitment/installation. I'm hoping most of the parts in their Gen 3 fitment kit will work on the Gen 4.

• ECU pack for Gen 4X: M-6017-M50HM (received mine about a month+ ago)
• Ford Performance installation manual
• F5 Gen 3 & 4 Install Instructions dated 9/19/24
• The oil pan gasket that comes on the Gen 4X is the same as the one called out in the F5 instructions (BR3Z-6710-A). I don't see a need to buy a new one, as the gasket looks reusable, and it ain't cheap (~$170).

Regarding the Gen 3 left side header, I spoke with Forte a couple months ago. He was working on an adapter of sorts to allow it to mate up to the different bolt pattern. I need to check back with him to see if they're available yet.

A quick perusal of the F5 instructions above calls out the same Moroso oil pan and pickup (#20570 and #24577 respectively). However, looking at the oil pickup design on the Gen 4X I don't see these Gen 3 parts will work...unless F5 is not bolting in the Moroso oil pickup--see picture below. I'll read through the instructions more thoroughly to see if I've missed anything. If not, I'll be contacting F5 to get more info. on how they made these work. Updated Gen 4X photos in their Coyote install manual would be welcome.

The Gen 4X oil pickup tube bolts in, unlike the Gen 3.




Notice the height of the pickup tube. I don't see this fitting in the Moroso 20570 oil pan. That being said, the pickup tube design looks more robust compared to the Gen 3. Particularly in how the tube connects to the block (i.e. bolts v. press fit).

[PNWTim]

Chris - I am going to be right there with you. My kit is supposed to be completed this Saturday and I downloaded the newest version of the Gen 3 and 4 instructions a few days ago. You are correct, they are recommending the same pan and pickup which sounds like a bit of a disconnect. I probably won't have my engine in my garage until February or March since I won't need it till then and hopefully these items sort themselves out prior to arrival.

I think in another thread I had stated I spoke with Georgie at Gas'n and they can build a header now, they just don't have it on their website. I did a header and side pipe delete in my order so will go with them regardless, but again, probably not till spring.

[jpschramek]

So just to add to this, I just did the factory tour on Monday and they had a Gen4 and Gen4x Coyote that they were planning on doing fitment testing with. The car they were first doing it on was the Type 65 Coupe (my planned car to build) so I know they are checking them out. They had a few other engines there as well still in the crates. I'm not planning on building until next year anyway so at least I know that likely by the time I'm ready for the engine they will have worked out the fitment details. I'm not sure if they've tested any other models yet with those engines but they are obviously aware that people are interested in them and want to know if they will work or not. I'm hoping to use the Gen 4 honestly, not just for the little bit of extra hp (480 vs 460) but I also think it would look pretty cool having the dual intakes (I'm all about symmetry in life). If you are curious about using the new engines I would contact them to see if they've tested them yet.

[topherchrisb]

I just got the call from Forte. He said they were crating my final package up. I was in line for lunch so I couldn't strike up too long of a conversation with him about what the final solution entailed. I just wanted to get details for final payment so I can get it shipped out asap. Not sure how long it'll take to get from MA to CO but I imagine I'll be able to answer some questions by christmas. I might even start talking with lund about their tuning solutions as they seem to be the go to for remote situations. I don't know of any performance shops around my area for a more hands on experience.

[460.465USMC]

Hello topherchrisb. Do you by chance have the Gen 3 headers? If so, I'm curious if Forte mentioned or offered you the adapter he's making for the left side?

[topherchrisb]

Hello topherchrisb. Do you by chance have the Gen 3 headers? If so, I'm curious if Forte mentioned or offered you the adapter he's making for the left side?

Yeah I do have the gen 3 headers with the cats I ordered with my kit a couple years ago. I talked to him about it a while ago(couple months maybe?) and he didn't have anything yet. I didn't specifically ask him about the flanges during the call last week though. I am going to order a 5.2 liter raw steel flange and test fit it on the engine when I have it. Then I just have to find a good welder to do the switch for me. My tracking number says the engine is about 20 miles south of me... but not scheduled for delivery till next Monday the 2nd... I know it's Tday week and all... but whoa. Makes it cross country over the weekend and needs a week to go from the trailer to sitting on the dock. :P

https://www.stainlessheaders.com/i-3...d48747c6d56d2c

[TXeverydayDad]

Yeah I do have the gen 3 headers with the cats I ordered with my kit a couple years ago. I talked to him about it a while ago(couple months maybe?) and he didn't have anything yet. I didn't specifically ask him about the flanges during the call last week though. I am going to order a 5.2 liter raw steel flange and test fit it on the engine when I have it. Then I just have to find a good welder to do the switch for me. My tracking number says the engine is about 20 miles south of me... but not scheduled for delivery till next Monday the 2nd... I know it's Tday week and all... but whoa. Makes it cross country over the weekend and needs a week to go from the trailer to sitting on the dock. :P

https://www.stainlessheaders.com/i-3...d48747c6d56d2c

I feel your pain. I’m waiting on Forte to complete and ship out my Gen4x, TKX plus a few extra bits. I was number 3 or 4 in his queue so hopefully soon. I was originally hoping for a delivery before Thanksgiving when I heard the pick-ups had come in a few weeks ago but that didn’t happen. But it’s even worse to know it’s shipped and only 20miles away and they won’t deliver until next week…

[topherchrisb]

I did pick up my engine a couple of days ago. I got fed up waiting for the call and with the port being only a 25min drive I just took the plunge and drove down there. Once you get the right person it's easy. In about fifteen minutes the guy walked out onto the dock to see if it was a spot a fork lift could grab it, I signed some papers, and they were loading it into the back of my truck. I've been super sick with a sinus infection the last few days though so I haven't done anything but uncrated it and set it down on the floor.

[460.465USMC]

Some good news to pass along to anyone who has the F5 stainless headers for the Gen 3 Coyote (like me). I followed up with Mike Forte yesterday, and his first "adapter" for the left side header (5.2L bolt pattern) is ready. He's shipping out a set to me today. Here's a picture of his mockup on a Gen 4X with the F5 header. It's made from 3/8" plate steel.




But wait...there's more! Mike also confirmed Moroso developed an oil pickup for the Gen 4. He's shipping one to me today as well. He confirmed the oil pickup is different than the Gen 3 (as I suspected--see above). However, he confirmed the same oil pan that fits the Gen 3 Coyote works with the new Gen 4 pickup design. So, he's shipping a Moroso pan to me as well. Those who are buying complete Coyote Gen 4 motor packages from him are getting the new oil pickup installed. He offered to sell me the gasket, but as I noted previously, I think the gasket can be reused--they're not cheap at ~$165.

[topherchrisb]

Some good news to pass along to anyone who has the F5 stainless headers for the Gen 3 Coyote (like me). I followed up with Mike Forte yesterday, and his first "adapter" for the left side header (5.2L bolt pattern) is ready. He's shipping out a set to me today. Here's a picture of his mockup on a Gen 4X with the F5 header. It's made from 3/8" plate steel.


But wait...there's more! Mike also confirmed Moroso developed an oil pickup for the Gen 4. He's shipping one to me today as well. He confirmed the oil pickup is different than the Gen 3 (as I suspected--see above). However, he confirmed the same oil pan that fits the Gen 3 Coyote works with the new Gen 4 pickup design. So, he's shipping a Moroso pan to me as well. Those who are buying complete Coyote Gen 4 motor packages from him are getting the new oil pickup installed. He offered to sell me the gasket, but as I noted previously, I think the gasket can be reused--they're not cheap at ~$165.

Oh nice... I still have not got my 5.2L raw steel exhaust flanges I ordered a couple weeks ago. I think I am going to hit him up for those adapters. I have the FFR headers with the catalytic converters in them... but I don't see why they wouldn't work with those as well.

[topherchrisb]

Some good news to pass along to anyone who has the F5 stainless headers for the Gen 3 Coyote (like me). I followed up with Mike Forte yesterday, and his first "adapter" for the left side header (5.2L bolt pattern) is ready. He's shipping out a set to me today. Here's a picture of his mockup on a Gen 4X with the F5 header. It's made from 3/8" plate steel.




But wait...there's more! Mike also confirmed Moroso developed an oil pickup for the Gen 4. He's shipping one to me today as well. He confirmed the oil pickup is different than the Gen 3 (as I suspected--see above). However, he confirmed the same oil pan that fits the Gen 3 Coyote works with the new Gen 4 pickup design. So, he's shipping a Moroso pan to me as well. Those who are buying complete Coyote Gen 4 motor packages from him are getting the new oil pickup installed. He offered to sell me the gasket, but as I noted previously, I think the gasket can be reused--they're not cheap at ~$165.

I got my bracket today and did a test fit. It works just like the your picture shows... unfortunately I think that's the way headers mount when using the engine in a mustang traditionally. They have locator pins that have interference when flipped over into the cobra orientation. Unless I'm doing something wrong. I started this thread in the roadster forums to give a little more detail. Forum pointer

[topherchrisb]

I was able to remove the locator pins and make them work with my catted headers. I updated that forum thread in the previous post to give a little more detail.