Gen 3 Coupe Complete Kit ordered and delivered. The fun begins… so far so good…
What:
-Type 65 Coupe Complete Kit
-3-Link 3.55 8.8" rear end
-17" Halibrands
-Manual steering
-NRG Quick Release Steering Wheel / RT Turn Signal ( if I am so lucky, now from TJ)
-Heat/AC
-Blueprint 302 (306 ) EFI w/ TKX 2.87… .81
-Hydraulic clutch… was leaning cable, but the engine now comes with hydraulic TOB.
-To be determined…
-Seats… leaning Kirkey 55 Aluminum Drag Highbacks (not a slight 6'2"+)
-Side pipes… I am a sucker for the dual pipes, so hopefully from Georgie/Gas-N, but wouldn't mind a few dB quieter. Starting with FFR's
-Body/Paint… was thinking Jeff Miller, but read he might have retired, so…
Why:
This has definitely been the dream car for a while. Probably more importantly now a hobby and a challenge, kids growing up and moving out. There could be some curiosity regarding it's and my track abilities, but mainly being built for the street. And while the plan definitely isn't attempting to replicate the original, it definitely leans that way.
When:
Right, no rush. Given my marginal experience, the unit of measure will be years not months.
How:
It'll take a village.
Where:
-A run of the mill garage in a run of the mill subdivision in SoCal suburbia. 909/I.E. for those familiar. A few miles from Route 66. Winternationals in earshot given the right conditions.
To repeat a common sentiment, and genuinely felt, a big thank you to FFR and this forum. Probably would not have felt comfortable enough to proceed without these great resources. Thank you to all who share their expertise and aren't afraid to share the bumps in the road for the benefit of those who follow. I appreciate that this build won't move the needle on craftsmanship or innovation (yes, blue with white stripes), but maybe someone will benefit, friends and family are curious, and mainly taking some of the advice of others, journaling a build is a good way to keep organized and record the process for my own benefit.
Congrats on the build. Lots of unbelievable knowledge on this forum! I am a little over a year in and will likley be another year or more before driving. I would say done, but these things never are. There are no dumb questions, so don't be afraid to ask.
The subtitle for this adventure should probably be patience. Waiting for the kit to be ready. Then maybe the delivery can't happen due to posted 'not a truck route' and '3 Tons Max' signs. Then the overhead crane won't work. The dolly has flat tires. Up on jacks but not far enough in to clear the garage door (and how to move when on jacks). Am I missing the message? No, because it all worked out. Just the way this will go. Challenges. Part of why we do this in the first place. And a big thanks to my buddy Ben, I might still be moving boxes into the garage if not for him.
My wife was the star of this phase. We counted every bolt. Figured out what 95% of everything was, process of elimination for the rest. Really just a few hours total.
Half of what was missing arrived via FedEx the day we were doing the inventory. At this point, just missing a speedometer sending unit. Well done, FFR.
"Unveiling" Brunch
My lovely, supportive wife threw together a little brunch. Lots of big smiles. Lots of "what have you done?!"s, and "you really think you can do this?!".
Went through and pulled aside the parts recommended for powder coating. Also hopefully sending the steering hub to TJ for adaptation as needed for the Russ Thompson turn signal.
Disassembly
Time to remove the nose and body and mark off all of the panels before disassembly. It really is striking everytime I go into the garage… won't look like this again for years.
Ready to install the first part. Wait, what bolt, what nut? So a big thank you to Scott P for his parts inventory posts.
I read the manual, but then I don't actually read it, evidently. Upgraded the tie rods thanks to PaulB and others on this forum, but missed the jam nuts from the factory kit. If only I could get the tie rods off the knuckle bracket. Off comes the knuckle. And now off to buy new hub nuts. One step forward... but, caught now versus later or too late, so thank you all again.
Certainly easier with helpers, but I guess a weakness is the challenge to figure out a way. A furniture dolly, 4x12s and an old tire ended up working well as a portable base for installing the brakes and upper link, and then sliding the rear end under the frame into position.
Great pictures. I love seeing the use of leverage and ratcheting and the like! A roadster builder in my local FFR group told me something when I started my build back in March, that has stuck with me: “when you stop treating the manual as the bible, and go your own way, the build process becomes more fun”. I have found this to be true. I read the manual, forums, watched YouTubes a ton before the build, and I still do so now, but in the end I am doing my own thing. And having a tom of fun. Keep up the good work!
Love it! Yes expect to get things together only to realize you forgot to add something, whether reading the manual or not. Have to agree with jgray above that I for sure read the manual, but find a lot of the build threads on here as well as rsnake's YouTube channel do a great job (if not better) of showing things the manual doesn't, or little details that help or improve upon the build. I figure early on I would do 3 hours of reading and research for every hour of build time having never done anything like this before. Further into the build I've become more confident and faster because less second-guessing myself if that makes sense. Great start with your build!
Thank you all for the thoughts and support! While generally sticking to the book, I am already seeing places to make some tweaks. Love this forum and community!
I have been researching and consternating over fuel lines. Stating the obvious, the opinions and advice on this and other forums run the spectrum. And there are many very good looking installs. In *my* final analysis, it comes down to form v. function. Or more is better v. efficiency (not overkill). After having spent so much on the kit and engine, my goal isn't to save a few bucks here. But, being a first build, I'm leaning toward keeping it simple and using the EFI kit that came with my BPE 302, including 3/8" pressure and return Earl's Vapor Guard rubber hoses. All should work together. All are the right size.
Certainly open to suggestions and advice, I would just appreciate insights as well. I have plenty to learn. Its valid some alternative has worked, but I would be mildly surprised to find out Holley ships something that won't perform acceptably over time.
I have been researching and consternating over fuel lines. Stating the obvious, the opinions and advice on this and other forums run the spectrum. And there are many very good looking installs. In *my* final analysis, it comes down to form v. function. Or more is better v. efficiency (not overkill). After having spent so much on the kit and engine, my goal isn't to save a few bucks here. But, being a first build, I'm leaning toward keeping it simple and using the EFI kit that came with my BPE 302, including 3/8" pressure and return Earl's Vapor Guard rubber hoses. All should work together. All are the right size.
Certainly open to suggestions and advice, I would just appreciate insights as well. I have plenty to learn. Its valid some alternative has worked, but I would be mildly surprised to find out Holley ships something that won't perform acceptably over time.
I thougjt the same but decided to go with 3/8 stainless. It is one of those things that is easy to do now before all of the panels are on and the engine and trans are in the way. Then you only have to do it once and never think about it again.
Certainly open to suggestions and advice, I would just appreciate insights as well. I have plenty to learn. Its valid some alternative has worked, but I would be mildly surprised to find out Holley ships something that won't perform acceptably over time.
Originally Posted by burchfieldb
I thougjt the same but decided to go with 3/8 stainless. It is one of those things that is easy to do now before all of the panels are on and the engine and trans are in the way. Then you only have to do it once and never think about it again.
Hi Aaron. I'm in the same camp as Brent. I ran stainless lines just like in edwardb's thread. My upgraded fuel pump came with high-end, non-braided 3/8 vapor guard rubber hoses like you. My thoughts are this: The fuel lines are running in the transmission tunnel. Heaven forbid driveshaft failure (hoop or not) or something happens and cuts one of them leading to fire. That was my only thought and I quickly moved on to installing stainless. Other options I entertained, and to some extent am still entertaining, was to put a steel shield over them to give some protection in the tunnel. Figured running SS lines was the least I should do for safety. There are also some good stainless braided lines out there as well so a bit of an intermediate between rubber and stainless but that lands in the exact price range of just running stainless.
I never worked on bending stainless in my life prior to this. Went to "the Depot" and got some 3/8 copper line and made templates, then ran my 2 stainless lines and it took me 1 day. Sure one of my lines is 1/2" too long in the engine bay and a couple bends out back are off slightly, but I think only I and everyone else on here building will notice that when looking at my car, and they will be hidden. The stainless lines aren't expensive, but the AN- fittings' prices can add up as the negative to running stainless. But I at least know that in the event of a driveshaft problem or accident maybe I'll have less risk of a fuel leak. I will also keep this car forever and won't have to replace them (other things yes). Hope that helps.
Hearing Winternationals 10 miles distant adding a little distraction/motivation to the build this morning.
Slowly but surely making progress. An embarrassing list of hurdles, mostly self-inflicted... over-torqued banjo bolt, spinning nutserts (tool still attached), hours searching for parts but fortunately finding them before calling FFR... (incomplete list). But really enjoying it all.
I found using an impact drill to insert the nustserts worked really well. If you have not noticed, you have to make sure the screw doesn't bottom out, if on the inside of a tube. Made this mistake and had to cut out the nutsert. Started using different length grade 8 bolts. If you are using this type of tool.
Thank you for the ideas. That could very well have been one of the problems. In another case or two I drilled the hole a little too big and it didn't grab. Not always perfect angles for drilling, etc., along with skill/reps deficiencies. Thanks!
2 steps backward…
… there is a crack in the master cylinder (clutch)… did I cause this by over-tightening… I’d like to believe I don’t know my own strength but that is very unlikely… MC crack.jpg
… and a lovely pool of hydraulic fluid below the bellhousing… Clutch leak.jpg
Thank you, Jim! And it does help to know that maybe I'm not the only one. A messy repair but could be worse... which is what I am fearing with the bellhousing leak... troubleshooting is next.
So far so good... well, the point of that was an understanding that it wouldn't go seamlessly from start to finish... well, the drivetrain is coming back out, transmission coming off, throw-out bearing going back to McLeod for repair/replacement. Has the feel of losing months on the build, at least 1, and the purchase of an engine stand and transmission jack that wasn't in the initial plan. And no relief from FFR on the faulty master cylinder. I know we are spending a lot on these projects, but it definitely doesn't feel at the moment I am getting my money's worth.
So far so good... well, the point of that was an understanding that it wouldn't go seamlessly from start to finish... well, the drivetrain is coming back out, transmission coming off, throw-out bearing going back to McLeod for repair/replacement. Has the feel of losing months on the build, at least 1, and the purchase of an engine stand and transmission jack that wasn't in the initial plan. And no relief from FFR on the faulty master cylinder. I know we are spending a lot on these projects, but it definitely doesn't feel at the moment I am getting my money's worth.
Sorry to hear you feel that way. Hang in there. Plenty of ups and downs with these builds. But the final product is worth it. McLeod hydraulic throwout bearings unfortunately don't have a great reputation. I have a Tilton in my Coupe and it's been perfect for 4+ driving seasons. Others also report a similar good experience with Tilton. I would use one again without hesitation. But many on here aren't fans of hydraulic throwout bearings. As for the MC crack, that's a classic overtighten crack. It's not hard to do. That's why I switch the right angle fittings to straight fittings and stop when tight. Avoiding that last extra push to get the right angle oriented that way you want and then it happens. I know. I've done it too.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
McLeod hydraulic throwout bearings unfortunately don't have a great reputation.
Unfortunately I have to agree here. Mine failed the first time I ran up the engine. Didn't even drive the car but the next morning I had a pool of clutch fluid on the garage floor. I was told that these things are bullet proof and very rarely fail if installed correctly ( it was installed from the factory ). McLeod replaced the bearing without question but did not give any indication of what actually failed. The new one has not shown any issues in the couple of gokart runs that I've done. Fingers crossed.
Build 1: Mk4 Complete Kit #9312 Ordered 1/27/18, Delivered 3/24/18, CA SB100 Registered 9/11/19 - Gen 2 Coyote TKO600, IRS, Power Steering, Wilwood Brakes, 17" Halibrand. Build 2: Gen3 Coupe Complete Kit #309 Ordered 1/25/21, Delivered 6/9/21, CA SB100 Registered 8/27/24 - BluePrint GM 427 LS T56, IRS, AC, Power Steering. Album Here
Thank you Brent. That will probably be Plan C... not quite ready to give up on hydraulics, just going with an upgraded version. If it comes to that at least I'll have had the practice of tearing it down and putting it back together
I know that you can replace the throwout bearing while the whole transmission / engine is still installed in the coupe chassis. All you need to do is remove the driveshaft then disconnect and slide back the transmission. Its very tight but can be done. Unfortunately I have first hand experience with this
Build 1: Mk4 Complete Kit #9312 Ordered 1/27/18, Delivered 3/24/18, CA SB100 Registered 9/11/19 - Gen 2 Coyote TKO600, IRS, Power Steering, Wilwood Brakes, 17" Halibrand. Build 2: Gen3 Coupe Complete Kit #309 Ordered 1/25/21, Delivered 6/9/21, CA SB100 Registered 8/27/24 - BluePrint GM 427 LS T56, IRS, AC, Power Steering. Album Here
Thank you Brent. That will probably be Plan C... not quite ready to give up on hydraulics, just going with an upgraded version. If it comes to that at least I'll have had the practice of tearing it down and putting it back together
This is still hydraulic, it uses and external hydraulic slave cylinder.
I know that you can replace the throwout bearing while the whole transmission / engine is still installed in the coupe chassis. All you need to do is remove the driveshaft then disconnect and slide back the transmission. Its very tight but can be done. Unfortunately I have first hand experience with this
Good to hear, thank you. I had read this being done. Having not gotten far with any engine plumbing, if I struggle to make it work, it could be worse to take it all back out, but I will give it a shot.
I should have posted sooner that BluePrint Engines came through. No surprise, they made things right with the throw-out bearing.
Now, on to electrical... the thread below has been helpful, not exactly my setup so there are differences, but once again it can't be over-stated how helpful this forum is. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...wiring-harness
Thank you. And yes, going as expected for a novice. Mostly making sense, but a fair amount of head-scratching and research. For instance, I think the coil and distributor are supposed to be connected with pre-wired pigtails, but the coil was installed in a way to trap the wires so the two cannot reach... or was that done specifically so I wouldn't mistakenly connect the two...
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Originally Posted by NotDrivingTrains
