Jesse builds another Cobra #11,061 - A little drive line drama

[Blitzboy54]

Nice work! What did you end up setting your Koni shocks at? Hard or Soft ride setting?

I found some old threads on the subject. I found one where doctor Kleiner said that the soft setting was ideal and what FFR had in mind. Honestly my last car had elite handling. Now having IRS I’m excited that it will be getting better. It’s a rough ride though. I can’t imagine off the track wanting it any stiffer.

[Namrups]

Don't forget to insert your vent plug into your pumpkin and run a vent line. Check your lube level also.

[RogerRoger88]

Well, it happened. The Roadster fairy arrived early this morning. Just before it got here I heard a rumble, I wasn't sure what it was then realized it was our friend Scott and his Daytona Coupe. He dragged himself out of bed at 6:00 in the morning to come help me take delivery. A real team player.



The truck arrived packed to the gills. A little fun fact, the driver was the same fella that dropped off my first build. He remembered the house and noticed it had been painted since the last time he was here. I was honestly impressed.



Scott jumping in with both feet and his load bearing belt.




We dug through all the boxes and pulled through the inventory. The only thing missing is I ordered a 2 sets of 2 inch roll bars and grommets. They were supposed to ship with my delivery but missed the truck. I assume they will be shipped along later. The only back ordered item was my drive shaft. Pretty impressive compared to my last build where I had 3 pages.

Once inventory was complete I tucked away the boxes based on need. The parts most likely to be used first up front. Nice thing about having done this before is knowing what you need and when.

Hi Jesse, looking forward to reading through your build thread as I'm building mine at the same time.
One thing you mentioned above was that you had ordered 2 sets of 2" roll bars. I didn't think 2" was an option any more. Or did you mean 1 1/2" roll bars?

Thanks,
Jesse

[Blitzboy54]

Hi Jesse, looking forward to reading through your build thread as I'm building mine at the same time.
One thing you mentioned above was that you had ordered 2 sets of 2" roll bars. I didn't think 2" was an option any more. Or did you mean 1 1/2" roll bars?

Thanks,
Jesse

Thank you and welcome aboard!

The kit comes standard with 1.5" role bars. This is what I had on my last build. Mk I-III used 2". Because of that FFR still supports the 2 inch bars. You can purchase them directly from the parts catalog (google factory five parts). I purchased 2 sets with grommets. They do not fit on the studs that are in the frame BUT it turns out you can makes sleeves using 1.25" I.D./1.75" O.D. .250" wall tubing. This will allow them to fit but you will need to drill through quite a bit more steel. Some guys shorten them, I will not. First I don't want to rework the back stud and second is the height is set to keep your head under it if there is a roll over. While a think shorter bars would look even better I am not confident making that change. For those reasons I will keep the geometry the same. But for my money the 2 inch roll bars are head and shoulders better looking than the 1.5".

[RogerRoger88]

Thank you and welcome aboard!

The kit comes standard with 1.5" role bars. This is what I had on my last build. Mk I-III used 2". Because of that FFR still supports the 2 inch bars. You can purchase them directly from the parts catalog (google factory five parts). I purchased 2 sets with grommets. They do not fit on the studs that are in the frame BUT it turns out you can makes sleeves using 1.25" I.D./1.75" O.D. .250" wall tubing. This will allow them to fit but you will need to drill through quite a bit more steel. Some guys shorten them, I will not. First I don't want to rework the back stud and second is the height is set to keep your head under it if there is a roll over. While a think shorter bars would look even better I am not confident making that change. For those reasons I will keep the geometry the same. But for my money the 2 inch roll bars are head and shoulders better looking than the 1.5".

Thanks for the info! Not sure if I'm gonna spend an extra $800 on new dual black roll bars and grommets. Drilling through steel I can handle. Reworking geometry not so much.

[Mike.Bray]

I went with the Breeze bar, 1.75" diameter. It's a welded construction which is a bit of a pain but there's no seams for a smooth look. I really hate the paperclip look of the FFR 1.5" bars.

[Blitzboy54]

Those are sexy. I considered it. I don't have a welder and ultimately it was more of unknown for me. Agree about the 1.5", I will also not have a Frankenstein bolt. There are a couple work arounds for it.

[Mike.Bray]

I don't have a TIG welder anymore but it wasn't hard to find someone with a portable one to weld this. The small amount of effort was worth it to me.

I had it chromed at a local plating shop.

[Redstang69]

Not sure if you're interested, but I have a set of mustang wheels with tires mounted from my build. I'm in Eastern Ohio, so with shipping not sure if it'd be worth it or not. Tried to PM you but it said your box was full.

[Blitzboy54]

Thanks man. I cleaned up my inbox. I can receive messages again. I’ll reach out.

[cv2065]

Those are sexy. I considered it. I don't have a welder and ultimately it was more of unknown for me. Agree about the 1.5", I will also not have a Frankenstein bolt. There are a couple work arounds for it.

Lots of mobile welders that will come out to your house and not really expensive. I started out looking at the 2" bars, but then Jeff filled me in on the hassle to get those welded up and moved, so moved to the Breeze ones. Those Breeze bars with the recline and shorter base look awesome!

[Blitzboy54]

Pedal Box

First thing I needed to get squared away for this was my powder coating arrangement. Last time I simply made a mess in the basement. I can't remember who's thread I saw this on but it was genius. I purchased a wardrobe box from Uhaul and boom, we have an cheap instant powder coating booth. It keeps almost all of it contained. I simply put the ground cable on the metal bar and start shooting. It's great so thank you to whoever I stole the idea from.



I decided to have a little fun with the powder this time around. Prismatic had an Amplify Orange match already in production so I shot my pedal box parts in it.



Not perfect but they came out pretty nice.

Nothing special on the pedal box, it came together as expected.





EXCEPT, I forgot that I was installing a Coyote. I know I don't need to but I will shoot these guys before I install them.



Karen would like a word with the manager

Look, it's in so I am not going to complain but putting the coyote pedal in is not a simple matter of following the directions. FFR could use an update. At the very least the metal sleeves need to com out. Also unless you want to cut the right side of the pedal too far you probably have to move the holes. I would also recommend putting it in before the Wilwood box. It needs your full attention. Having said that it's in and I like the way it turned out.

[Blitzboy54]

Eating around the edges

I am waiting for panels from powder coat. I have settled on a paint scheme. I think I know what the car will look like when it's complete. I am going to keep those details to myself for now but I did decide on charcoal and black for most of the engine bay panels.

So in the mean time I am working on what I can.

I mounted my front lower control arms and greased the fittings. I also assembled my front shocks and cut down my short arms on the upper A arms for power steering. It's not my favorite job but certainly easier the second time around. They can't be installed until the F panels are in but they are now ready to go.



Since the frame is empty I also figured it was a good time to mount the Breeze battery box. I used the one on my last build and I much prefer the battery upfront for all kinds of access reasons. This is a well made piece and my advise to anyone installing one is simply take your time and follow the directions. Mark puts all the tips you need to get it right the first time.


This is it mocked up



Then I lined up all my various bits that I wanted to PC orange.






I think I am mostly done with the orange so I cleaned out the gun. It looks like I purchased just the right amount as I have very little left.

[Blitzboy54]

I installed the box. It went in without drama. I will say that the SS rivets are brutal but what I did this time was use a C clamp on the handle of a regular rivet tool to slowly compress the handle. After about three pulls the rivets pop. It takes a while but kept me from having a stroke so that's a win. As an aside the box comes pre drilled for 3 rivets but it ships with 5. The idea is to add 2 more. In my experience 3 is more than enough. That thing isn't going anywhere.








I also installed the Coyote neutral safety switch. If I don't get the panels in the next couple of days i will probably put the steering rack in.

[UpstateCobraGuy]

Jesse,

Looking great! Can't wait to see it again. I'm pretty sure the Upstate Cobra's will be more than willing to come over and eat pizza too...

[Blitzboy54]

I’m always available for pizza

[JMD]

I like the orange accents and the garage powder coating setup. I may look into doing something like that. I left most of my aluminum pieces natural, but there were a few metal parts I painted that would probably have been better off powdercoated. My seat brackets, sway bar mounts, etc. They are all parts that I can get to and remove fairly easily to recoat when needed, but powder coating is always the better option.

[Blitzboy54]

I like the orange accents and the garage powder coating setup. I may look into doing something like that. I left most of my aluminum pieces natural, but there were a few metal parts I painted that would probably have been better off powdercoated. My seat brackets, sway bar mounts, etc. They are all parts that I can get to and remove fairly easily to recoat when needed, but powder coating is always the better option.

I powder coat almost everything. You're right it is better than paint and you can have some fun with it. The real reason for me is the NE gets muggy and the humidity eventually starts rusting uncoated steel parts.

[Blitzboy54]

Drive shaft

I continue to install things that I don't need F panels for. I moved on to the drive shaft. This is pretty straight forward and something I wouldn't bother documenting if it were not for 2 things.

First, the Coyote pedal. I thought I was done with that but not exactly as it turns out. One key issue with the pedal is the drive shaft. It’s a very narrow fit and mine as installed, was in the way. If you run a Coyote you are going to need to trim around the upper bolt to EXACTLY match the pedal plate. As designed there is only about 1mm of room. That's enough but there is not wiggle room.

I marked the back of the back of the pedal with it still mounted. Had I known ahead of time this was a thing I would have done this off the car.



As you can see with it removed the room between the pedal plate and drive shaft is nominal.



After trimming and re installing you can see it clears without interference but not by much. This picture looks like they are touching but it clears.




The other big surprise is the bottom leg of the drive shaft is too long. I installed one of these before and it was a touch too long. By reversing the spherical bearing you could create a little more space and it just fit. Now it's not even close. You simply cannot turn the shaft. It's a full cm too long (or at least mine was). Since I was going to trim it anyhow I decided to put the bearing back the pointing out. I marked and cut it and now everything fits like it should

Also the little button head screws that hold in the pins on the joints pictured below. each joint has 4 (3mm) screws. One of them was loose and partially unthreaded. These cars vibrate so I preemptively removed all of them one at a time and put thread locker on them. It would take a lot to go wrong but better safe than sorry.

[JMD]

I actually cut about a half inch off my lower steering shaft as well, but that was before I reverse the pillow bearing. Having done both there is plenty of room to remove and reinstall the lower shaft as needed without removing any other parts. There is no reason not to do this, and as far as I can tell as there is plenty of extra extension provided by the upper shaft. I also used my drill to dimple for every set screw, not just the one they tell you to in the manual. One little slip of any part of either shaft into the joint and no more steering. Helps me sleep better at night. Definitely an area you don't want to take any risks with.

[Blitzboy54]

I actually cut about a half inch off my lower steering shaft as well, but that was before I reverse the pillow bearing. Having done both there is plenty of room to remove and reinstall the lower shaft as needed without removing any other parts. There is no reason not to do this, and as far as I can tell as there is plenty of extra extension provided by the upper shaft. I also used my drill to dimple for every set screw, not just the one they tell you to in the manual. One little slip of any part of either shaft into the joint and no more steering. Helps me sleep better at night. Definitely an area you don't want to take any risks with.

That’s a good point. There is no reason not to do it. I’ll knock that out this weekend

[Namrups]

Having a good start on your second build, how is it different from your first build in respect to how you are going about it?

[M22_COBRA]

Pedal Box

At the very least the metal sleeves need to com out. Also unless you want to cut the right side of the pedal too far you probably have to move the holes.

Which metal sleeves are you referring to? I'm close to this step and I'll need to not repeat these issues.
Thanks.

[Blitzboy54]

Which metal sleeves are you referring to? I'm close to this step and I'll need to not repeat these issues.
Thanks.

There are metal sleeves inside the bolt holes. In order to create enough wiggle room to make everything fit they have to be pulled out. At least they did in my case.

[Blitzboy54]

Having a good start on your second build, how is it different from your first build in respect to how you are going about it?

That’s an interesting question. I’m spending a LOT less time micro researching everything. It’s early so it’s kinda like going through the motions in some ways. The IRS was fun since it’s new for me. Today was pretty cool because I have hit a point where I need to create something new.

On a side note my driveshaft arrived. That sucker is only like 8” long. The area I would put a safety loop is pretty tight. I’m going to have to figure something out.

[Blitzboy54]

Plan B

One of the priorities for me on a second roadster was to do something different with the parking brake. I went with the stock setup last time and didn't love it. I am in the minority of folks when I say I actually really like the handle. It's a creative design and applies a lot of force to the parking brake. I just hated where it was. The original AC was right hand drive so naturally the parking brake would be on that side. Carol left it. Just like the shifter he came up with a creative inexpensive solution and ran with it. I respect the heck out of that but I think I can improve on it.

Now I am on a strict budget for this car. I am dangerously close to over budget at this point but "horseshoes and hand grenades" or some such. Estopp and Lokar make great products but both are expensive for what they are. So my goal is to either use parts that I already have in the kit or spend less than $100.

I started goofing around with the parking brake and came up with this. Under this arrangement using parts that are currently in the complete kit you can relocate the handle to the top of the cover.



By lining up the mounts to behind the last support near the drive shaft couple and just under the upper transmission cover support you can put it on the passenger side on top of the tunnel. I would drill and use rivnuts with red locktite.





It would sit here. I later made a small adjustment to what you see here, also installed the driveshaft so I could judge clearance. I had to lower the rear mount by a cm to get the ratchet teeth below the trans cover. Most trim rings are between 5 and 5.25 inches so it has to be under. All things considered I almost called it here and started drilling.

[Blitzboy54]

Plan A

This is all well and good and honestly relieved I have an acceptable solution ready to go but what I really want is a clean tunnel and an electric brake. Like I said Estopp and the rest are great products but at the end of the day I need electric control of linear piston. I think I can figure something out. I have been poking around for solutions and I found this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NM8H5TG...fed_asin_title

It's generic linear actuator with built in limit switches and 2" of throw. It has 350 lbs of pull force (more than enough) and it was less than $40.

It arrived and worked as expected.



I installed it in a way that would allow me to test it without cutting the cables. I have no idea where I am going to end up so I would like to avoid doing something permanent. I wrapped the frame in a rag and used a worm clamp to secure it.

[Blitzboy54]

After playing around it became obvious 2" is about an inch too much. I need to cut the throw in half. I have some ideas (one I am really excited about). In order to make the test below work I needed to put a lot of slack in it. There is plenty of room to attatch this unit on the underside of the original ebrake mount. I think I can get it pointing directly at the cable mounts.



Since it has built in limit switches I think a bi directional DC toggle switch is the plan. Hold in place until it stops. I would then use a separate 12v and put a proximity sensor on the shaft so when it's retracted and open it sends 12v to the parking brake light on the dash. Will run that trough a relay so it's only on when the car is on. Nothing is a done deal but I am very encouraged so far.

[JMD]

Super cool. I love the innovation and simplicity of this. I am a bit worried about my setup passing the HP inspection as I'm not using the stock handle (they don't work with my Gordon Levy wilwood brakes). I actually didn't want a handle at all and am using a ball valve fitting to hold pressure in the rear brake line. Technically it's not a separate braking system, but I'm hoping it gets through. If not I'll have to go to plan B...once I figure one out. But I like the idea of building something that can be engaged with a button. Will be following along and see what happens with yours. Good luck!

[Nigel Allen]

Plan B

One of the priorities for me on a second roadster was to do something different with the parking brake. I went with the stock setup last time and didn't love it. I am in the minority of folks when I say I actually really like the handle. It's a creative design and applies a lot of force to the parking brake. I just hated where it was. The original AC was right hand drive so naturally the parking brake would be on that side. Carol left it. Just like the shifter he came up with a creative inexpensive solution and ran with it. I respect the heck out of that but I think I can improve on it.

Now I am on a strict budget for this car. I am dangerously close to over budget at this point but "horseshoes and hand grenades" or some such. Estopp and Lokar make great products but both are expensive for what they are. So my goal is to either use parts that I already have in the kit or spend less than $100.

I started goofing around with the parking brake and came up with this. Under this arrangement using parts that are currently in the complete kit you can relocate the handle to the top of the cover.



By lining up the mounts to behind the last support near the drive shaft couple and just under the upper transmission cover support you can put it on the passenger side on top of the tunnel. I would drill and use rivnuts with red locktite.





It would sit here. I later made a small adjustment to what you see here, also installed the driveshaft so I could judge clearance. I had to lower the rear mount by a cm to get the ratchet teeth below the trans cover. Most trim rings are between 5 and 5.25 inches so it has to be under. All things considered I almost called it here and started drilling.

My car is RHD. During the build process, I was worried that my knee might bang against the handbrake handle when driving. Honestly, it has never been an issue. So another option might be to move the lever to the left hand side of the trans tunnel?

Handbrake.jpg

cheers,

Nigel

[Nigel Allen]

After playing around it became obvious 2" is about an inch too much. I need to cut the throw in half. I have some ideas (one I am really excited about). In order to make the test below work I needed to put a lot of slack in it. There is plenty of room to attatch this unit on the underside of the original ebrake mount. I think I can get it pointing directly at the cable mounts.



Since it has built in limit switches I think a bi directional DC toggle switch is the plan. Hold in place until it stops. I would then use a separate 12v and put a proximity sensor on the shaft so when it's retracted and open it sends 12v to the parking brake light on the dash. Will run that trough a relay so it's only on when the car is on. Nothing is a done deal but I am very encouraged so far.

Rather than relying on the limit switch to provide correct tension on the hand brake cables, you could use a current sensing relay to measure the motor current (torque) applied to the cables. This could be used to shut off the linear actuator. This way you would always have the correct tension applied to the brake cables. Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/22614957...CABEgLLq_D_BwE

I can help you with a wiring diagram if you like. I think it would be a cool solution.

Cheers,

Nige

[Blitzboy54]

Rather than relying on the limit switch to provide correct tension on the hand brake cables, you could use a current sensing relay to measure the motor current (torque) applied to the cables. This could be used to shut off the linear actuator. This way you would always have the correct tension applied to the brake cables. Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/22614957...CABEgLLq_D_BwE

I can help you with a wiring diagram if you like. I think it would be a cool solution.

Cheers,

Nige

Nigel,

This is a really cool idea. I have something similar in mind but a little lower tech. I am officially bumping your idea up. This is the new plan B and manual lever has been demoted to C.

As far as moving it to the drivers side I have a couple thoughts. First there is more room in the trans tunnel on that side as the driveshaft cheats to the right. The downside is I would have to cut and reeled the handle bracket and cable guide. The foot boxes are not symmetrical either. It’s an option.

[Nigel Allen]

Nigel,

This is a really cool idea. I have something similar in mind but a little lower tech. I am officially bumping your idea up. This is the new plan B and manual lever has been demoted to C.

As far as moving it to the drivers side I have a couple thoughts. First there is more room in the trans tunnel on that side as the driveshaft cheats to the right. The downside is I would have to cut and reeled the handle bracket and cable guide. The foot boxes are not symmetrical either. It’s an option.

It's bedtime down here, but I can sketch up the circuit I have in my head tomorrow morning. If I've got it right, in addition to the current sensor, you will only need a 5 pin automotive relay and a diode.

BTW, do you happen to know what the maximum current draw is on that actuator?

Cheers,

Nige

[Namrups]

One thing to keep in mind, my cables did streach a little after a season (about 1/2 inch). I had to re-adjust. I would also think about running your cables through a tube of some kind (PVC pipe maybe) to keep them from hanging when the tension is off. Great idea. I will put this on my future upgrade list on the coupe!

[Blitzboy54]

One thing to keep in mind, my cables did streach a little after a season (about 1/2 inch). I had to re-adjust. I would also think about running your cables through a tube of some kind (PVC pipe maybe) to keep them from hanging when the tension is off. Great idea. I will put this on my future upgrade list on the coupe!

That was just a rough test. It will have an adjustable tentioner for sure.

[Nigel Allen]

That was just a rough test. It will have an adjustable tentioner for sure.

The sweet part of a current sensing relay, is it will automatically shut off when tension is correct, even if cables stretch/ pads wear.

[Blitzboy54]

The sweet part of a current sensing relay, is it will automatically shut off when tension is correct, even if cables stretch/ pads wear.

Agreed Nigel. I am looking forward to trying it out.

What I had come up with before Nigel entered the conversation was how to reduce the throw from 2" down to probably 1". Making a lever was my first thought. If you give it multiple anchor points you can make the throw adjustable. The other idea I had and the one I ultimately went with was a spring. By introducing a heavy spring in line you are both shortening the throw and manage the tension. I did a little math and came up with an 85lb 5 inch spring with an inch of extension. Again, not wanting to make any permanent changes during the test phase I put everything inline and used a lag bolt to hold everything down.




All in all it worked really well. I could potentially play with the spring a bit but I think it works as is.





I am going try Nigel's idea next.

Once I complete my testing and go to install I think I want to move the whole operation to this location. I think I want to run it along the lower bar behind the center section. It's unused space and frees up the transmission tunnel. I will need to figure out a way to relocate or recreate the bracket that holds the cables. I prefer to bolt something in vs welding.



As an aside I also installed the gas tank

The only interesting thing about that as I managed to use the bolts that came with the kit by using channel locks to hold the tabs together on the drivers side strap. My in tank pump and hanger is a Quantum Fuel unit. 3/8 lines and 6an fittings with a 340LPH pump. This is only interesting because it's less expensive than other options at about $180

[Its Bruce]

I used something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...e-b295129e7cdf

And it allows a single touch lock/unlock of the parking brake with a simple (on)-off-(on) rocker switch.

[smccoy]

Looking good! Do you have a source / part number for that spring? I'm using the same actuator and will be doing the same testing shortly.

[JohnK]

I'm pretty sure that E-Stopp also uses a current sensing relay to control cable tension/travel. From their FAQ:

Q: How many inches of travel does the E-Stopp have?​
A: About 2 inches. Most systems only need about 1. The motor stops itself once it reaches 600 pounds of resistance.