Chris' Coupe Build #566 - Panel fitting: Chapter 3. Trunk Box and Cockpit Complete

[Alan_C]

I guess I enjoy banging my head against the wall? Who knows, maybe I'll knock some sense in someday.

You are not alone my friend, getting our heads wrapped around the axle is too easy to do, not to mention over thinking something to death before just going for it and doing it.
Hey I took on a full restomod of a 70 Mach 1, so I really get it as the dents in the wall continue to accumulate. Fortunately the Mustang will be done next year and I will return to build a 65 Daytona coupe with Chevy power no less.

[Rhino]

Hello Chris,
It looks like your build is rolling along nicely. I'm about a week ahead of you. It's tempting to take off a week to let you get ahead. Reviewing your thread showed a few things I wish I had done differently. The tank is in on mine and brake and fuel lines are going in. A few minor problems popped up. Posting photos is still giving me issues, but I'll be posting on my thread tonight.
Terry

[460.465USMC]

Hi Terry. Plenty of ways to approach things, so who's to say your approach isn't better, or at least best for your build. I'm slow, but I keep at it, trying to touch the build every day after work, if possible. Otherwise, my future grandchildren would end up with a half-built Coupe! My number one goal is to enjoy the process, and do my best to end up with a quality build (within my limited skillset).

I look forward to your updates later today.

[Rhino]

The builder's manual was kept close for the first few weeks. It took a while to decide that it was only a point of departure. All the answers aren't contained in its 584 pages. We now start there, but we move beyond. We are starting to loosen up with the build and having a lot more fun.

[460.465USMC]

With the suspension built up, I decided it was time to make this thing a roller. It gives me the freedom to take the build off the lift as needed to accommodate other vehicle maintenance.

I chose the BFGOODRICH G-Force Rival S 1.5. I'm running the Nitto NT555 G2s on the Roadster. No complaints there, just wanted to try something different on the Coupe. Through some type of inventory error at Discount Tire, I ordered the Rival S, but was given the Rival S 1.5. Since it was their error, I was given the newer version at the old version price. Saved over $400. I'll take it, as it usually goes the other way.

Front: 275/35 R18. Wheel: 18x9
Rear: 315/30 R18 Wheel: 18x10




I dig the deep dish wheel look. This is the rear.

[JimStone]

Now it's looking like a race car! I like the wheels, nice choice

[Barwickad]

Wheels and tires look great!

[460.465USMC]

Now it's looking like a race car! I like the wheels, nice choice

Thanks, Jim. It's a fun milestone in the project.

Wheels and tires look great!

Appreciate it, Andy. Can you tell I'm not a Halibrand dude? Hope to see some body/paint updates soon on your Roadster.

[Blitzboy54]

Those wheels are sexy Chris.

[460.465USMC]

Thanks, Jesse. Did I mention this is a blast?

Wait a minute...your signature. Wait, wuh? A second MK4 build? More news is needed on this late breaking story!

[Blitzboy54]

Thanks, Jesse. Did I mention this is a blast?

Wait a minute...your signature. Wait, wuh? A second MK4 build? More news is needed on this late breaking story!

I got the bug like you to keep building. I just don't have the cheddar to keep my first one and do it again. So I sold her (went fast) and ordered another roadster kit. This time with all the bells and whistles. I will be able to take what I learned and with a bigger budget build the car I never knew I wanted. I'll save the details for the build thread but I'm stepping up to Coyote and IRS.

This one is going to be very different. People are going absolutely love it or hate it. There will be no in between.

[460.465USMC]

Congrats! That’s exciting. I’m loving your choice for motor and rear suspension! Looking forward to getting the details in your new build thread.

[460.465USMC]

While I'm pecking away at the fuel system, I took a short detour and installed the F5 supplied "safety loop" for the power steering rack.

I'm assuming builders who recently ordered the F5 power steering option have received (or will soon) this stainless bracket. Mine came a week ago or so, with a tech update document inside the box. Apparently, a very small number of builders have reported receiving their PS rack with damage. Sounds like it has been on the right side mount. I didn't notice any crack in mine, but opted to install the safety loop as a precaution. Factory Five is shipping them out free of charge to add an additional layer of safety.

It comes as uncoated stainless, so I coated it with Eastwood Chassis Black. Install was a cinch since my Coupe is wide open and easily accessible. Just remove the mounting bolt and slip in the safety loop.




Installed: view from the front.




View from the rear.




I received two of them, perhaps because the PS rack in my Roadster is new enough (circa 2020)? Not sure if I will install that one, but coated it at the same time so it's ready to go. Will have to take a close look at it next time it's up on the lift.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Maybe I missed it Chris but what wheels are those? That's kind of what I have in mind for the next one.

It's all looking great!

Jeff

[JimStone]

While I'm pecking away at the fuel system, I took a short detour and installed the F5 supplied "safety loop" for the power steering rack.

I'm assuming builders who recently ordered the F5 power steering option have received (or will soon) this stainless bracket. Mine came a week ago or so, with a tech update document inside the box. Apparently, a very small number of builders have reported receiving their PS rack with damage. Sounds like it has been on the right side mount. I didn't notice any crack in mine, but opted to install the safety loop as a precaution. Factory Five is shipping them out free of charge to add an additional layer of safety.

It comes as uncoated stainless, so I coated it with Eastwood Chassis Black. Install was a cinch since my Coupe is wide open and easily accessible. Just remove the mounting bolt and slip in the safety loop.




Installed: view from the front.




View from the rear.




I received two of them, perhaps because the PS rack in my Roadster is new enough (circa 2020)? Not sure if I will install that one, but coated it at the same time so it's ready to go. Will have to take a close look at it next time it's up on the lift.

Interesting. I haven't gotten one. So, what's the theory here? The rack is going to snap off at the weld points of the mount or something and the loop is going prevent what? Wouldn't both mounts have to break before you'd get steered into a wall?

[460.465USMC]

Maybe I missed it Chris but what wheels are those? That's kind of what I have in mind for the next one.

It's all looking great!

Jeff

Hi Jeff. The wheels are 1994-04 Mustang SVE Series 2. I bought them from LMR. Here's the link: 1994-04 Mustang SVE Series 2.

[460.465USMC]

Interesting. I haven't gotten one. So, what's the theory here? The rack is going to snap off at the weld points of the mount or something and the loop is going prevent what? Wouldn't both mounts have to break before you'd get steered into a wall?

All good questions, Jim. I reread the document sent with the safety loop, and it says they are sending these to MK4 and Coupe customers who purchased power steering racks since 2017. Your guess is as good as mine as to what could happen if the mount(s) were cracked/broken. Maybe someone with more experience than me can provide some insight. Regardless, it's an easy precaution and I was happy to install it.

[Dmac800]

Hi Chris,
Where did you get the parts for the straightener?

Don

[460.465USMC]

Hi Don.

The orange pulleys I picked up from Amazon ($9/pack): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. The "jaws" I picked up as a single remnant piece of stock aluminum from my local metal supplier. The screws and washers can be sourced from your favorite hardware store, or my favorite online supplier, McMaster-Carr.

Here's the video which contains a list of all the parts: https://youtu.be/8BkXDwFj3PA?si=pXtq-nH-vny2nvuF

[Dmac800]

Thanks!

[460.465USMC]

It's been a couple months or so since I've worked on the build. Lots of house maintenance items and other life stuff consuming my time. So, I'm anxious to get back at it, especially with the arrival of my Coyote Gen 4X (M-6007-M50H). The ECU pack (M-6017-M50HM) is on back order--I don't think Ford has released them quite yet. I recently traded emails with Dan G. at F5, and he confirmed they are also waiting. Of course, the price for the Gen 4X went up ($1,600) compared to what I paid for the Gen 3. But that was four years ago, and this is the next iteration of the Coyote.

The Coyote crate motor arrived with no warning. The truck just showed up. Thankfully, my wife happened to be home to accept it, and had them roll it into the garage with their pallet jack. I guess I won't complain, free shipping after all.

I thought Ford did a great job with the crate, leaving a nice gap (safety zone from unwanted penetrations) around the entire motor. (My Gen 3 did not have that safety zone [re-crated by another vendor], and sure enough a fork lift found it's way through the crate. Thankfully, it was just a dented oil filter. No other damage).




Once I had it uncrated, had to scratch my head a bit to figure out how to get it off the pallet. My Sawzall seemed to be the best option. So, I cut a "V" in the pallet so my HF engine hoist could sort of saddle the pallet. This gave the needed reach for the lift plates to bolt on--nice to be able to use those again.




Here it is in all its glory. Notice there's no oil filter cooler spacer piece to remove on the Gen 4X. So, no need to buy the oil filter nipple (AL3Z-6890-A).




I had to pick up an engine stand, as I'm going to prep the Coyote myself this time around. I'm one of those guys who bought all of the accompanying Gen 3 accessories from F5 with my order. Not realizing the Gen 3 wouldn't be available by the time I was ready to order the motor. D'oh! So, I'm test fitting some items to make sure they'll fit. Here's the right side header from F5. Seems to fit just fine.




For those interested in a Coyote for their build, I'm sure you've heard about the change in header bolt pattern on the left side. I guess Ford changed it to the 5.2L pattern. So, my left side header will not directly bolt up. The middle two cylinder exhaust port bolts don't align--see red arrows. Thankfully, Forte will be making an "adapter" of sorts so those who bought Gen 3 headers can still use them. Looking forward to seeing a copy of one.




I popped off the oil pan to see if anything changed. The oil pan gasket looks exactly like what F5 called out in their instructions for the Gen 3 Moroso oil pan swap (gasket #BR3Z-6710-A). So, it appears it won't be necessary to buy one. Also, notice the oil pick up. It looks a lot like the Moroso pick up in the Gen 3 instructions, except it's much taller.




Check out how the Ford oil pick up is attached. Much more solid looking than the Gen 3 plastic pop-in design.



I think I will pause on the Coyote prep for now until I can find out what will be needed in terms of oil pan, oil pickup, etc. This means back to the fuel system (tank, lines, etc.).

[Blitzboy54]

Hey Chris,

Glad to see you back at it. Another option would be to buy a drivers side header from ford. Then cut the mounting plate off of both and have a shop weld them back together. The exhaust ports didn’t change location so everything should fit back together without an issue. Unless the adaptor fits over the top (it very well could) it will screw up your exhaust alignment.

[460.465USMC]

Thanks for your thoughts, Jesse. Are you going with Gen 4X as well? If so, which direction are you leaning toward in solving this challenge? (Maybe this is already noted in your build thread--I need to catch up on your progress).

[TXeverydayDad]

Thanks for the picture of the header bolts! Very useful to get an idea of what the difference is and how the F5 headers ‘fit’. I’m expecting my Gen4x within 2-4 weeks, hopefully with the control pack included at that time. Latest I heard was 9/30 availability of the control pack.

[Blitzboy54]

Thanks for your thoughts, Jesse. Are you going with Gen 4X as well? If so, which direction are you leaning toward in solving this challenge? (Maybe this is already noted in your build thread--I need to catch up on your progress).

I purchased a factory remanufactured Gen 2. It came from Ford and has 100,000 mile warranty. Stock, it will produce about 50HP less than yours. Unless I supercharge it

[460.465USMC]

I purchased a factory remanufactured Gen 2. It came from Ford and has 100,000 mile warranty. Stock, it will produce about 50HP less than yours. Unless I supercharge it

Nice! That should do the trick. Looking forward to seeing that supercharger-breathing-flame-thrower fire up!

[PNWTim]

As I mentioned, the stainless tubing I'll be using for fuel and brake lines is coiled. Initially, I hit the easy button and bought a couple handheld tubing straighteners (3/8" and 3/16") from Eastwood. But after seeing a few home-built straighteners, I decided to try my hand at making one. It looked fun to build and saving some coin is not a bad thing. So, I returned the Eastwood units, and settled on a DIY straightener I found on YouTube (there are many!).

I think I spent <$40 for all the parts needed. Buying a short stick of 3/4" aluminum bar stock from a local metal supplier helped keep the cost down.




For me, a drill press is a necessity for this level of precision. Thankful my Dad gave me his a few years ago. It took a minute to tap the 8 (count them) 3/4" deep holes. Here you can see the wheels installed, and the holes to mount to the vise jaws. Original jaw on bottom for reference.




Here it is altogether and ready to go in the vise. These wheels are specifically for 3/8" diameter tubing, but I'm hoping I can also use them to straighten the 3/16" brake lines as well. The clamping force of the vise is obviously adjustable, and it only takes a couple minutes to swap out the vice jaws for the straightening jig. It's too early to straighten my lines, but looking forward to giving this jig a real-world test in a few months. It sure looks promising in the video by the guy who designed it:

.

Wilwood Dynapro v. Superlite Rotors
It's been about 3.5 years since I safety-wired the Wilwoods in my Roadster. A refresher video was in order. One video had a good tip on estimating wire length for each stud pair: measure between studs and multiple by 5 (2.25" X 5=11.25").
Worked perfectly. Thankfully, I remembered to set my torque wrench to 155 inch-pounds. Phew! The process came back to me after the first few were done. I don't know that my quality improved over last time, but I did notice I was faster. Overall, I enjoyed the process, and it feels like I've started the build.

I used the same Harbor Freight safety pliers, and patted myself on the back after finishing the first rotor/hat pair without bloodshed. Three sets of studs later my fingers felt wet. Dang! Safety-wire strikes again. First blood. Those wire ends are sharp.

Here's a picture to show it happened. This is one of the rear rotors.




On my Roadster build I ordered Wilwoods from F5. They sell the Dynapro, drilled and slotted. This time I bought from Levy Racing. I went with Superlite six piston on the front (13"), and Dynapro four piston on the rear (13"). The Superlites are definitely beefier: 1.25" thick v. Dynapro 13/16". No difference in the machined surface area on the rotor, but an increase of brake pad surface area by ~28% (3.9" v. 5.4").

See the difference between the Dynapro (left) and Superlite (right)?




I'm sure the Dynapro would have been just fine for my use at all four corners, but Levy's pricing made it a simple decision. And, it's something different I wanted to try on this build.

Two weeks from today until delivery.

Chris - be prepared to be peppered with questions. Love the straightening tool and it's genius to include it in the vise itself - seems like a no brainer. In regards to brakes, I also did not include them in my order so planning on outsourcing those. I am curious what your specific reasons were for choosing the Superlites over the Dynapro? Was it cosmetics, more brake for the same money or a combination of other factors? Thanks in advance.

[460.465USMC]

Chris - be prepared to be peppered with questions. Love the straightening tool and it's genius to include it in the vise itself - seems like a no brainer. In regards to brakes, I also did not include them in my order so planning on outsourcing those. I am curious what your specific reasons were for choosing the Superlites over the Dynapro? Was it cosmetics, more brake for the same money or a combination of other factors? Thanks in advance.

Let the questions come. I've asked (and still asking!) more than my fair share over the last few years. I'm happy to help if I can. Plenty of other more experienced/skilled builders here if you stump me (not hard to do).

Why did I go with Superlite on the front? A few reasons. I was a little underwhelmed with the braking on my Roadster (though I didn't try more aggressive pads). But maybe some of that is because I didn't adjust my braking expectations enough for the difference between manual and the power assist on other modern performance cars I've owned? Anyway, the Superlite calipers/pads have more surface area than the Dynapros, so that should help. I may also try more aggressive pads, e.g. BP-20 that Blitzboy is using.

Second, the pricing from Gordon Levy was competitive with F5, i.e. better brakes for similar cost.

Third, I want to try some different things with the Coupe build where I can, and where it makes sense to me. The Superlites are not drilled, just slotted, which is just fine with me. I know the drilled look has a cool factor, but from the reading I've done (as a simple minded layman), the benefits are debatable.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Single throttle body or two?

Jeff

[PNWTim]

Single throttle body or two?

Jeff

I believe single throttle body as he bought the Gen4X with the X designating single. I'll let Chris confirm that. I thought I was going to be the beta tester for the Gen 4 but he beat me to it. Looking forward to seeing info on pan selection and other needs.

[PNWTim]

It's been a couple months or so since I've worked on the build. Lots of house maintenance items and other life stuff consuming my time. So, I'm anxious to get back at it, especially with the arrival of my Coyote Gen 4X (M-6007-M50H). The ECU pack (M-6017-M50HM) is on back order--I don't think Ford has released them quite yet. I recently traded emails with Dan G. at F5, and he confirmed they are also waiting. Of course, the price for the Gen 4X went up ($1,600) compared to what I paid for the Gen 3. But that was four years ago, and this is the next iteration of the Coyote.

The Coyote crate motor arrived with no warning. The truck just showed up. Thankfully, my wife happened to be home to accept it, and had them roll it into the garage with their pallet jack. I guess I won't complain, free shipping after all.

I thought Ford did a great job with the crate, leaving a nice gap (safety zone from unwanted penetrations) around the entire motor. (My Gen 3 did not have that safety zone [re-crated by another vendor], and sure enough a fork lift found it's way through the crate. Thankfully, it was just a dented oil filter. No other damage).




Once I had it uncrated, had to scratch my head a bit to figure out how to get it off the pallet. My Sawzall seemed to be the best option. So, I cut a "V" in the pallet so my HF engine hoist could sort of saddle the pallet. This gave the needed reach for the lift plates to bolt on--nice to be able to use those again.




Here it is in all its glory. Notice there's no oil filter cooler spacer piece to remove on the Gen 4X. So, no need to buy the oil filter nipple (AL3Z-6890-A).




I had to pick up an engine stand, as I'm going to prep the Coyote myself this time around. I'm one of those guys who bought all of the accompanying Gen 3 accessories from F5 with my order. Not realizing the Gen 3 wouldn't be available by the time I was ready to order the motor. D'oh! So, I'm test fitting some items to make sure they'll fit. Here's the right side header from F5. Seems to fit just fine.




For those interested in a Coyote for their build, I'm sure you've heard about the change in header bolt pattern on the left side. I guess Ford changed it to the 5.2L pattern. So, my left side header will not directly bolt up. The middle two cylinder exhaust port bolts don't align--see red arrows. Thankfully, Forte will be making an "adapter" of sorts so those who bought Gen 3 headers can still use them. Looking forward to seeing a copy of one.




I popped off the oil pan to see if anything changed. The oil pan gasket looks exactly like what F5 called out in their instructions for the Gen 3 Moroso oil pan swap (gasket #BR3Z-6710-A). So, it appears it won't be necessary to buy one. Also, notice the oil pick up. It looks a lot like the Moroso pick up in the Gen 3 instructions, except it's much taller.




Check out how the Ford oil pick up is attached. Much more solid looking than the Gen 3 plastic pop-in design.



I think I will pause on the Coyote prep for now until I can find out what will be needed in terms of oil pan, oil pickup, etc. This means back to the fuel system (tank, lines, etc.).

Based on your observations and research (of which I have done little) do you believe the same Moroso pan is going to fit since it appears the gasket is similar? I intentionally didn't order headers and side pipes as I had heard about the bolt up difference and had always planned to go with Gas'n pipes. I sent them a note this week to enquire about the Gen 4 version of the headers and will let you know what I find out.

[460.465USMC]

I believe single throttle body as he bought the Gen4X with the X designating single. I'll let Chris confirm that. I thought I was going to be the beta tester for the Gen 4 but he beat me to it. Looking forward to seeing info on pan selection and other needs.

Hi Jeff. Single throttle body. Pretty sure I don't have the mechanical chops to get the dual version to fit. But raising the hood to an additional 20 HP, plus the cool factor of two throttle bodies...oh, yeah.

[460.465USMC]

Based on your observations and research (of which I have done little) do you believe the same Moroso pan is going to fit since it appears the gasket is similar? I intentionally didn't order headers and side pipes as I had heard about the bolt up difference and had always planned to go with Gas'n pipes. I sent them a note this week to enquire about the Gen 4 version of the headers and will let you know what I find out.

The oil pickup is much taller than the Moroso pick up. So, I don't think the same Moroso pan will work (too shallow). I'm going to guess (just my speculation) Moroso will offer a revised design for the Gen 4, for both the pan and the pickup.

Yes, please let me know what Georgie says about Gen 4 header availability. I'm hoping Forte's "adapter" will work for the left side stainless header I have, but always good to know about other options just in case.

[PNWTim]

I spoke with the guys at Gas'n today regarding headers and the Gen 4 and they are all over it. They have already created prototypes and if you were to order today they would be able to provide a set. They should have the ordering option and pictures up on their website very shortly. I personally was relieved to hear this as I chose the header and side pipe delete assuming I would be buying from Georgie.

[jpschramek]

I believe single throttle body as he bought the Gen4X with the X designating single. I'll let Chris confirm that. I thought I was going to be the beta tester for the Gen 4 but he beat me to it. Looking forward to seeing info on pan selection and other needs.

So I'm just in the research stage for building the coupe and have been focusing on the Gen 4 Coyote quite a bit, especially the difference between the 4 and the 4x. My preference would be to go with the 4 because of all the advantages of the dual intakes but wondering about the fit in the engine bay. Have you or anyone tried the Gen 4 yet?

[narkosys]

The most important difference (to me) between the two is that the one with the dual intake is non tunable.

P

[jpschramek]

The most important difference (to me) between the two is that the one with the dual intake is non tunable.

P

"yet". I've been hearing that it will be eventually, prob by the time I get around to actually building the car. I'm thinking more about spacing for the intakes in the engine bay and the different bolt patterns for the headers.

[JohnK]

The oil pickup is much taller than the Moroso pick up. So, I don't think the same Moroso pan will work (too shallow). I'm going to guess (just my speculation) Moroso will offer a revised design for the Gen 4, for both the pan and the pickup.

I'm pretty sure this has been the case with all generations of coyote engines and the Moroso pan. The shallower pan is required for clearance purposes, and they've all required a shallower pickup. I think the Gen1 and Gen2 used the same pickup. The Gen3 went with a new pickup design (that took Moroso *forever* to release) and the Gen4 looks to be a new pickup design yet again. I'm guessing the same pan that has fit Gen 1-3 will also fit Gen 4, just with a new pickup. If time is an issue, review Edwardb's coupe build thread to see how he modified his stock gen3 pickup to fit since the Moroso pickup wasn't available yet. Or you could just wait and Moroso will likely eventually release one.

I have no doubt that Georgie will come out with gen4-specific headers. I've seen first-hand the custom work that he can do. This change is pretty trivial for him.

[PNWTim]

Based on what I have seen of recent coupe builds the dual throttle bodies would be very difficult to realize. The PS would conflict with the radiator hoses/tubes as there does not appear anywhere else for them to go. I am not sure there is any benefit to running the dual TB other than a few horsepower and the cool factor. I will be ordering the same engine Chris did and appreciate the fact it's available.

[460.465USMC]

I'm pretty sure this has been the case with all generations of coyote engines and the Moroso pan. The shallower pan is required for clearance purposes, and they've all required a shallower pickup. I think the Gen1 and Gen2 used the same pickup. The Gen3 went with a new pickup design (that took Moroso *forever* to release) and the Gen4 looks to be a new pickup design yet again. I'm guessing the same pan that has fit Gen 1-3 will also fit Gen 4, just with a new pickup. If time is an issue, review Edwardb's coupe build thread to see how he modified his stock gen3 pickup to fit since the Moroso pickup wasn't available yet. Or you could just wait and Moroso will likely eventually release one.

I have no doubt that Georgie will come out with gen4-specific headers. I've seen first-hand the custom work that he can do. This change is pretty trivial for him.

Thanks for the background and chiming in, John. I recall what Edwardb did to get a workable oil pickup on his Gen 3. It didn't look easy to me. Glad I have PLENTY of stuff to do on the build before I'm in a pinch for a shallow oil pan/oil pickup. I'm hoping Moroso has it figured out by the time I'm ready.

Agreed, Georgie puts out high quality/custom work. I remember what he did on your build. It was great.