Is the Factory Frame Paint any good?

[skidd]

So.. my kit is officially on it's way to my house . I ordered the non-powder coated frame, because I wanted to paint it myself (budget build). But.. I was under the impression that the non-powder coated frame, was bare metal. It's not though, is it? It comes with their black paint applied. I've read lots and lots of very old posts (2003, 2004) about how crappy the factory paint was. But I've not found too many more recent posts about the paint. Is this still the case? Is the paint F5 puts on still sub-par? Or is it decent now? Am I going to have to pay to have it sandblasted and re-coated? I don't want to.. because Budget!! I'm not planning a show-quality frame. This is going to be a regular driver afterall. In fact, I was planning to just put on a self-etching primer and a coat of Rustoleum Satan Black. Is the paint they put on good enough to just scuff and put on a decent top-coat? Opinions?

[NAZ]

Not sure about their paint -- I got the powder coat. The PC is fine but the prep work is non existent with weld spatter all over. But if you do decide to paint your own I would advise you to not use Rustoleum but look at Eastwood chassis black. It comes in a rattle can version as well as typical canned coating requiring a spray gun. This is serious automotive paint. A year down the road you will not be happy with cheap paint and it will cost you a great deal more work and money to fix it later.

[Connedale]

Did rustoleum prove to be a bad solution? Is it assumed to be bad because you can get it at Walmart?

[ryanmac]

Pretty sure your kit will arrive unpainted (bare steel).

We also chose the uncoated option when ordering last fall, and our kit was bare steel. We wanted it that way because we wanted to modify the frame, to clean up their welds / spatter, and to paint it ourselves.

We painted frame with couple coats of primer, then couple of coats of tractor / implement paint (John Deere Black) - oil based enamel with hardener. If your going to jack car up alot, then may want to truck bed liner the bottom half of the frame rails...easier to touch up down the road.

[flynntuna]

As far as I know there's only two ways to order the kit, powder coated or bare frame ( no paint) . If yours is coated its most likely powder coated. Double check your build sheet to see if you paid for powder coat, your budget build may have got a free upgrade.

[NAZ]

Connedale, I've used Restoleum for decades and it works good enough on my tractor and some other outdoor metal items I don't really care about their looks. But it fades quickly and rusts through a bit after that. You can check the rust by using the Rustoleum rusty metal primer first but you can't get away from the faded chalky look when it weathers. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

[AC Bill]

I was very pleased with the factory powder coat, on my MK 3.1. It has held up very well since 2009.
Chances are you won't be subjecting your roadster to salt covered winter roads, or leaving it parked outside all the time. I would use POR 15, or an epoxy paint, if I had to paint the frame myself.

[skidd]

Ah.. so it actually doesn't come painted? I hope that's the case... and to be honest.. what I expected until I stumbled upon a bunch of "old" threads talking about frame paint.. etc...
And.. perhaps that's exactly why I can't find any recent threads about the non-powedred coated frame paint. If it's in fact bare steal.. then I'm laughing!!
I'm not 100% dedicated to using Rustoleum, I can only attest to how good it has worked for me in the past on various other metal projects, including parts on an old dirt-track beater race car.
Down here in South Texas.. we have no salty roads to deal with. Heck, my 16 year old Subaru still doesn't have a single rust spot anywhere on it. I might go with something like a tractor-supply paint.. no sure, or an official Frame Paint.

Thanks for the help guys.

P.S. Hey AC Bill.. that Subaru of mine... I bought brand new from Subaru of Nanaimo in 2000. I'm an Island boy myself. My parents and sister still live there. I moved to Texas in 2001.

[edwardb]

If not ordered with powder coat, it will come bare steel. Their powder coat price is really very reasonable. You would have a hard time getting it done anywhere else for less, and that doesn't take into account the extra handling. Unless you're planning on doing frame modifications (e.g. welding) or don't like gloss black, it's the way to go.

But if I weren't having the frame powder coated, I'd do POR15. Best choice for paint by far IMO.

[AC Bill]

Ah.. so it actually doesn't come painted?

P.S. Hey AC Bill.. that Subaru of mine... I bought brand new from Subaru of Nanaimo in 2000. I'm an Island boy myself. My parents and sister still live there. I moved to Texas in 2001.

Well it doesn't usually unless you pay extra for it..Maybe they throw a primer on nowadays?

Yup..Van Island hasn't slipped away into the Pacific yet. Probably a few more people here since you moved, but still a very laid back lifestyle for the most part. Love the wilderness, the rivers, lakes, and ocean.

[Bigtim01]

I have painted boat trailers and car trailers with farm equipment paint from Tractor supply.
They sell a hardner that I highly recommend.http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pro...t?cm_vc=IOPDP1
Years latter they still clean up nice. As for the weld splatter, don't sweat it, you don't see it when the car is finished
HTH
Tim

[6t8dart]

Not sure about their paint -- I got the powder coat. The PC is fine but the prep work is non existent with weld spatter all over. But if you do decide to paint your own I would advise you to not use Rustoleum but look at Eastwood chassis black. It comes in a rattle can version as well as typical canned coating requiring a spray gun. This is serious automotive paint. A year down the road you will not be happy with cheap paint and it will cost you a great deal more work and money to fix it later.

I second the vote for Eastwood Chassis Black I did the underside of my Dart, 7 years later it was still like new, trans fluid, oil , brake fluid, gas never made a mark on it. Stuff is as close as it gets to powder coat in a paint.

[skidd]

Thanks for the help guys. I don't really want to spray the frame though. I know it's better for the most part, but I don't have the means "currently" to deal with the amount of over-spray in my garage. I'm pretty much .. at this point... fully planning to brush on what ever paint I go with. So.. rustoleum, or Implement are likely what I'm going to go with.

[phileas_fogg]

x2 on the POR15 recommendation. That stuff is tough as nails, and brush on to boot. I know carlewms used it extensively.

John

[Jazzman]

But if I weren't having the frame powder coated, I'd do POR15. Best choice for paint by far IMO.

I second his comment. POR15 is like liquid powder coat in a can. looks great, and really really hard!!

[WIS89]

+1 on the POR 15. I have rolled, brushed, and sprayed it on different surfaces, and it is terrific, and truly tough as nails!

Regards,

Steve

[Jacob McCrea]

The POR-15 is some tough stuff, and I have used it on a litany of things. But in my experience it dulls badly over time if exposed to sunlight, to the point that it looks like cheap black spray-can primer. I have also had problems with it wanting to roll off of sharper edges on the chassis, and no number of coats would solve the problem. This was despite hitting parts thoroughly with a wire wheel to de-burr them and round off sharp edges. I had the same problem with it rolling off of edges on a bunch of custom bike racks I made, despite the same proper prep. In fairness, I probably should have thinned it.

I can't comment on FFR's powder coat, other than to say that the price is remarkably inexpensive, so much so that I have to wonder how much the metal actually gets prepared for finishing post-welding. I would rather control the metal prep myself, regardless of what finish I ultimately applied, so that I was confident that all the oil, mill scale, etc. was actually removed prior to primer and paint. And on that point, take the time to go over the chassis and grind down any areas where weld beads will prevent the aluminum paneling from sitting flush on the chassis. Good luck!

[accobra66]

Man I really have to tell you if I were to build today I would POR-15 it and call it a day and would not think twice about it. This stuff is so darn amazing and beats the pants off regular paint all day. Does not seem to chip or peel, dries to a beautiful gloss finish and seems to be resistant to chemicals. The only downside to it I can see is my experience anyway has been that you have to be very careful with runs. It goes on super thin and runs easily. I found myself continually going back and catching runs.

The nice thing about this stuff IMO is that it is so durable and if you do chip, etc. you can pretty easily touch up.

[edwardb]

The POR-15 is some tough stuff, and I have used it on a litany of things. But in my experience it dulls badly over time if exposed to sunlight, to the point that it looks like cheap black spray-can primer...

True. They have right on their website: "POR-15® is sensitive to UV light (sun) and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure to sunlight. Failure to do this may result in long-term damage to the POR-15® coating. Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight." I've personally not had any problem with it on engine or chassis applications, because they don't get extended sunlight. I have some on the block of #7750 and it's still as shiny as when I painted it there 3+ years ago. And that's with the heat cycles of an engine block. Sunlight isn't an issue. I've also used it to touch up the gloss black powder coat FF supplies. It matches and practically disappears.

[Joecobr]

True. They have right on their website: "POR-15® is sensitive to UV light (sun) and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure to sunlight. Failure to do this may result in long-term damage to the POR-15® coating. Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight." I've personally not had any problem with it on engine or chassis applications, because they don't get extended sunlight. I have some on the block of #7750 and it's still as shiny as when I painted it there 3+ years ago. And that's with the heat cycles of an engine block. Sunlight isn't an issue. I've also used it to touch up the gloss black powder coat FF supplies. It matches and practically disappears.

I ordered my chassis bare frame, had it sandblasted, put two coats of Por15 and one coat of Eastwood chassis black. IMO probably better than the FFR PC but does not look quite as good. The Por15 on sandblasted steel is unbeatable in terms of chip resistance, unlike the PC. My total cost was about the same as the FFR PC cost but it took a considerable effort and time to complete. If you want good adherence of any paint you apply you should really consider sandblasting. I gave the etching a try but it is not nearly as effective in creating the profile a paint requires to adhere.

[Jonathan427]

Hi,
POR has something called Metal Prep, which is designed to prepare shiny metal surfaces for POR15.
Does anyone have experience with this?
Thanks,
Jonathan

[Jonathan427]

Hi,
I'm working on a "budget build" as well, up here in Canada, every dollar counts!
The POR-15 web site has a bunch of information, you can buy the stuff online, and it really does seem to be the best stuff around. They also do Caliper Paint which I intend to use to make my original 2000 GT calipers look like new!
I pick my 289 kit up in November.......
Best,
Jonathan

[Jacob McCrea]

I have used the POR-15 metal prep on the bike racks mentioned in my last post. It seemed to work exactly as represented, and I would strongly suggest using it prior to applying POR-15 to a frame, or to anything else for that matter. I still had the problems with POR-15 rolling off of sharp edges, but again perhaps I should have thinned the product a little. Also, the metal prep is not a substitute for making sure that the metal is properly degreased with something like PPG DX440 wax and grease remover.

[Joecobr]

I have used the POR-15 metal prep on the bike racks mentioned in my last post. It seemed to work exactly as represented, and I would strongly suggest using it prior to applying POR-15 to a frame, or to anything else for that matter. I still had the problems with POR-15 rolling off of sharp edges, but again perhaps I should have thinned the product a little. Also, the metal prep is not a substitute for making sure that the metal is properly degreased with something like PPG DX440 wax and grease remover.

I tried the Por15 metal prep but the Por15 did not adhere very well in many places. I finally gave in and had the chassis sandblasted. That provided a very nice rough surface for the Por15, with no runs. I hit it inadvertently several times with no damage whatsoever, unlike my PC suspension pieces that chip very easily. I am up in Ontario, Canada doing a 4.6 DOHC and IRS build.

[stevo7896]

Another vote for por15. Very tuff and will handle the occasional times when your wrench hits it. Also easy to touch up . I would check out their site to get feed back about their many products they sell. I used it on the rear end and it brushes on nice. Very messy, so glove up .I would also plan on scuffing up the frame with sandpaper to get a good bite . As far as sunlight issues ,I dont think the frame will ever see enough sunlight to ever effect it. But easy to topcoat it if your concerned.

[dmoran]

I've used their metal prep after degreasing and it does a great job on new steel, new stainless and new aluminum. POR-15 + metal prep is definitely a great way to go. You can get a small kit with the small can of POR-15, a small bottle of degreaser and small bottle of metal prep. It was enough to do 2 coats on my 8.8 solid axle and some other small parts and was a nice introduction to using POR-15.

[skidd]

An apropos of nothing (aka update).. in hind site.. I'm not sure the $$$ I saved was worth the work.
I completed my hand-painted frame (primer, wet-sanding in visible areas, and color coat) on the weekend. I way way WAY underestimated the amount of work involved in doing this.
It's totally obvious to me now, but in looking at the frame in photos online before ordering my "bare" metal frame.. thinking hand-painting that thing won't be tooooooo bad... I forgot to consider that each bar HAS 4 DANG SIDES TO IT!!! That really adds up.
In the end.. I'm content with the outcome (the factory powder coat looks way better than what I pulled off), but not convinced the money I saved was worth the work. I spent more effort smoothing and sanding the visible frame parts in the engine bay, so it looks decent.
Going into this.. I was 95% convinced that painting the frame myself was the right choice. Save Money, Easy to do. Having now done it.. and using the 20:20 of hind-site.. I'm more like... 38% convinced painting the frame my self "was" the right choice.
just my .02c.

[Mark Dougherty]

the price for the FFR powder coating cant be beat.
There is way to much time in painting it yourself.

[j.miller]

Ditto, Dougherty.