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Thread: Jazzman's 1967 Ford Mustang Build: FlipTop gets a Sister!

  1. #1
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Jazzman's 1967 Ford Mustang Build: FlipTop gets a Sister!

    Building my Factory Five Roadster was one of the best decisions I have ever made! Excluding the decision to marry my bride of 30 years and having two fantastic kids, the experience of building my MKIV brought more joy and personal growth than almost any other I have done. I began that journey to learn, to experience, to challenge myself. Regardless of the actually end product, I personally got more out of the build experience than I could have imagined. (I think the car came out OK, too!!) It challenged my creativity, my innovation, my tenacity, my patience. So when the build was done, I was . . . well, bored.

    I craved the challenge, the distraction, the learning, the release. I knew early on I would want to do a second car, I just wasn’t sure what it would be. I have entertained possibilities of another FFR model, another Roadster for my wife, a Corvette, a Porsche 911, a 1956 Ford F150, a 1951 Mercury Lead Sled, a late ‘60’s Ford Bronco, etc, etc. All have their allure, all have their challenges. I spent a lot of time reading various forums, looking at available project cars, considering options. Nothing I found had the right combination of quality un-restored condition, price, locale, and that indefinable something that captures my imagination. I must admit that one of the hardest parts of this decision was deciding whether or not to do another FFR model. They are all wonderful, each with their own personality. I still eagerly await the next FFR offering. I treasure all the new friends I have made on this forum. I thank each of you for welcoming and encouraging me through my journey. The Factory Five Forum is a safe, supportive, and nurturing place. I am already aware that not all forums have these values!

    When I was in High School, my best buddy’s older brother had a 1967 Ford Mustang Coupe. I thought this was the coolest car around! I loved just looking at it. I never even got to ride in it! But I never forgot that aggressive stance and the cool turn signals in the hood. I think that was the singular car that fueled my passion for cars. I am now aware that the Fastbacks are the most collectible, then the convertibles, and in a very distant third position is the humble Coupe. I seriously considered tring to find a decent fastback, but if it wasn’t already completely restored, it was a very overpriced rust bucket!! My mind kept wandering back to that White Coupe in Todd’s driveway.

    About three months when I was in Hawaii on vacation, I came across a craigslist ad for a 1967 Ford Mustang Coupe “Project”. By the time I came home from vacation, the ad was gone. Sadly, I assumed it had been sold and I had missed that opportunity. That was ok, because I was still having the internal debate of “Fastback or Coupe.” Coupe was the first love, Fastback the new obsession. Fast forward to about two weeks ago. The same ad pops up again on Craigslist. It turns out to be only a couple of miles from my home. After a lengthy series of text messages with the owner, I was able to schedule a time to look at the car. Long story short . . . FlipTop has a baby sister!







    She is in pretty good condition considering she is 51 years old and has been a project for over a decade, and not stored indoors. (He did keep a tarp over her, and she is an Arizona car. Rust is not quite the same issue that it is in snow country.) She has a 289 engine that has been “gone through” (whatever that means!!)



    Based upon the dried-up bottles of engine lube and other liquids that I found in the trunk, I suspect the former owner did the “rebuild” himself. (Clearly this means that his engine work cannot be trusted! At a minimum, it means having a professional go over the entire engine to see if I runs.) She has an automatic transmission, but I have no idea if It has ever been serviced. The interior is completely shot. The exterior is all “Primer” grey, but the primer looks like parts of it were put on with a brush! There is minimal body filler, but what is there was very poorly applied. The former owner cut out all the brake lines, all the fuel lines, power steering lines, and the vast majority of the wiring. He was kind enough to leave all this newly created trash in the trunk for me! I can’t quite figure out why. It’s garbage at this point.

    Bottom line: This is a complete restoration. First task: completely strip her of everything and have the entire car media blasted to get down to raw metal and see what I am working with.
    Unlike the Roadster where I had spent two years planning and envisioning the car, this one does not have a fully formed build plan yet. Here is the basics that I know at this time:

    Overall concept: Build a streetable RestoMod Pro-Touring car that I can drive year around. A car I will be comfortable and able to take Grand kids out it on a Saturday afternoon. (Specific Grandchildren to be added later!!) It will not be a classic “concours” type restoration with everything just as it was on the showroom floor in 1967. It will NOT be the original color (an awful light green!). Themes will be drawn from the original but will in most ways be a modern car hiding inside a classic shell. It will not be another “Eleanor” clone but may have some more modern treatments at the front and rear. It will, however, be up to my already established standards!!

    Engine: Either a rebuilt and improved original engine that came with the car (unlikely), or a Current Coyote engine (most likely), or possibly a modified 3.5L Ford EcoBoost V-6 with twin turbos, (If I decide upon an homage to the GT-40, not very likely, but not out of the realm of possibility.)

    Tranny: Must be automatic to satisfy the wife. Perhaps the stock C-4, perhaps the current tranny that comes in a 2016-17 Ford Mustang, perhaps even one of the 8-10 speed autos with paddle shifters.

    Rear end: Either the stock 9” rear that came with the car (rebuilt obviously), or a new Independent rear suspension.

    Front suspension: Independent Front suspension to improve ride and handling, to lower stance, to eliminate the shock towers and add room for the giant Coyote, and to clean up the overall engine bay look. Still working on which brand of IFS I will use. (Suggestions appreciated.)

    Wheels: Definitely Foose Wheels, probably Impala’s.

    Color: still very much up in the air. I only know it won’t be a candy job this time!!

    It will have a modern interior with all the amenities. AC is an absolute must. It came with the factory “add on” type AC unit that mounts below the dash and above the tranny tunnel. It looks a bit too dated and clunky for the modern interior I want, so likely it will not be used. Seats will likely be higher back seats, not stock ones, but not racing seats either. I talked to my interior designer and told him that I wanted to start with a completely blank page on this one. No pre-conceived notions of what is every other Mustang interior. I may even try my hand at installing a backup camera. (My bride would like that!)

    Last night I cleaned out the trunk. What a lot of junk.



    Why do I have six hubcaps, only two of which are from a mustang, and none of which I will be reusing?! All the nuts and bolts are in paper and plastic containers that are seeming to lose their molecular integrity. Nothing is sorted or marked. This is going to be fun!! Found a couple of dents on the floor of the trunk and on the PS rear wheel tub, but nothing major. Best news of all: No significant visible rust, no soft spots. (I am not delusional enough to think I won’t find some rust to repair, but thus far it looks pretty minimal.)





    Since this is the Factory Five forum, I am not sure how much people may care about my doing a full build thread on my progress on a 1967 Ford Mustang. Having said this, I found that I got immense joy doing the full build thread on the Roadster. I have enjoyed going back over my own build thread to relive the joys and sorrows. It is very much a diary of my personal journey, a reminder of all the friends I have made along the way. I will probably keep at least some basics here for my own enjoyment in the future. (If at any time the moderators would like me to stop posting in this thread, just ask. I more than happy to oblige.) If you would like to go along with me through this next build, please let me know. The more people that are interested, the more detailed I will be in the build thread.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 07-17-2018 at 09:56 PM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  2. #2
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Build Thread Table of Contents:
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Keep it coming !

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    RoadRacer's Avatar
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    Yes please! I'd have picked coupe too
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  5. #5
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Yes Yes... Please keep it coming. I am not a Mustang fan.... Well let me rephrase that. I am not a modern Mustang fan but love the looks of the 60s and early 70s Mustangs. I will be one to follow your build thread.

    Only one thing I disagree with on your build plans. While the EcoBoost V-6 with Twin Turbos would provide a ton of power, I don't think that any 60s Mustang deserves anything except a V-8. Seems like that would just be a sin and get you ex-communicated from the church of Mustang.
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

  6. #6
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDSapp View Post
    Only one thing I disagree with on your build plans. While the EcoBoost V-6 with Twin Turbos would provide a ton of power, I don't think that any 60s Mustang deserves anything except a V-8. Seems like that would just be a sin and get you ex-communicated from the church of Mustang.
    Thanks for your support! Yes, I tend to agree with you on a mustang deserving a V-8. I just like to put my own unique stamp on my creations, and I am letting my mind wander until a fully formed build plan emerges. Since I am primarily building this for my wife to drive when necessary, I think a V-6 with twin turbos might be a bit much for her to go visit her friends! It is a third tier idea that is just sort of ruminating for now. Probably not very likely. But it is good enough for the current GT-40!!

    As for getting excommunicated from the Church of Mustang, I thrive on that! I risked getting excommunicated from the Church of Cobra when I potentially offended the high priests of all that is "Cobra" by cutting the body in half! That turned out OK! I suspect that there are still some high priests of Cobra that hate my creation, but thus far they have been too polite to say so publicly. Live and let live.

    This forum continues to be a supportive and positive place. I posted this same information on "another forum" (not THAT other forum!). Thus far 75 people have read the thread. Not one response of any kind!! Thank you to all of you for wanting to walk with me through my journey. It's going to be fun! More to follow soon.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  7. #7
    RoadRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    But it is good enough for the current GT-40!!
    *cough* now, now, GT40 is reserved for a much different car of which I am a huge fan All this V6 silliness is a *Ford GT* lol
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  8. #8
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRacer View Post
    *cough* now, now, GT40 is reserved for a much different car of which I am a huge fan All this V6 silliness is a *Ford GT* lol
    My humblest apologies, you are absolutely correct. Of course WHY they changed the name eludes me. Oh well.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  9. #9
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Last night I took out the major interior pieces. The front seats were only held on by two nuts anyway, so they were no problem. The back seat was not even screwed on. It came right out. I took off the rear side panels, no surprises there. Generally the interior metal looks amazingly good. No obvious rust or even notable damage. It seems too good to be true, so I am getting nervous. I fully expect to find some rust problems somewhere, but thus far, nothing serious. I am not quite sure about the DS front floor. It is perfectly flat, not corrugated like the rest of the floor. I suspect it might have a secondary panel laid over the original panel. If it was done this way, they did a pretty good job of it. I can't quite tell yet, so I will wait to worry about that part until I have the car sand blasted.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

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    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Tonight I started removing the windows. I vaguely remember this process from my old 67 Mercury Cougar. It is not a happy or simple memory!! I remember fighting it every step of the way out, then again on the way in. I decided to refresh my memory by looking for a YouTube video on how to remove a window. I came across this video which got me about half the way, but also offered some good suggestions for necessary maintenance "while you are in there anyway". It's sort of ironic that it happens to be a "how to" video about a '67 Cougar. Thirty years ago when I was trying to keep my Cougar running and semi-restore it, It was extremely difficult to find any help on anything. My how the internet has changed the process of learning! But I digress.

    I took 30 photographs of the procedure so I could work backwards when it was time to reinstall the windows. (I won't bore you with all of them!!) All the rubber and plastic stuff is completely shot. The windows are in surprisingly good condition. The window controller works rather well. (I wonder if I should replace it "while I am in there anyway"?) The metal inside the door looks pretty good. No rust visible. So far so good.





    And then . . . I find it. The first really major patch of rust. Right on a multiple compound curve of the front of the door.



    That's going to take some work to fix. Ok, I knew it was highly likely there would be some rust somewhere. I knew I would have to fix it. I didn't, however, expect it in that specific place. I wonder what else is hidden . . .

    PS window out, door completely stripped of everything except the latch system. One down, one to go. Then the rear windows. This is going to keep me out of trouble!!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

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    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Wow, look at how much room you have inside that door! It looks like you could climb in and work on it.
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

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    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Look forward to following along! My first car was a '67 Mustang convertible!

    A few thoughts:
    Try to keep this thread under 1000 posts. hahaha
    If anything but a coyote with the paddle shifter auto goes in this you are gutless! hahaha
    Glad to see you have started a build index!

    In all seriousness with the availability of reproduction parts would it be easier/cheaper to just buy a new door than repair the rust on that one?
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

  13. #13
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    Look forward to following along! My first car was a '67 Mustang convertible!

    A few thoughts:
    Try to keep this thread under 1000 posts. hahaha
    If anything but a coyote with the paddle shifter auto goes in this you are gutless! hahaha
    Glad to see you have started a build index!

    In all seriousness with the availability of reproduction parts would it be easier/cheaper to just buy a new door than repair the rust on that one?
    Try to keep this thread under 1000 posts? NO PROMISES!! This should be pretty easy. No one will see this thread unless they go looking for it.
    If anything but a coyote with the paddle shifter auto goes in this you are gutless! hahaha THE GAUNTLET HAS BEEN THROWN DOWN!! This is currently the leading contender.

    Yes, I am seriously considering just replacing that door. $350? Good money spent. Perhaps the other door too. We shall see.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 07-19-2018 at 01:18 PM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  14. #14
    Mark Eaton's Avatar
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    Kevin,

    You have found an awesome project here and I intend to follow you progress with interest!
    MK4 #9130 , complete kit, arrived 8/10/2017, Street Legal 2/14/2020.
    DART SHP 347, EFI, TKO600, IRS
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...n-Build-Thread

  15. #15
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Kevin, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement: "I began that [Mk4] journey to learn, to experience, to challenge myself. Regardless of the actually end product, I personally got more out of the build experience than I could have imagined."

    Building a Mk3, then an 818, have added a lot to my enjoyment, skills, and friend list. Now, I'm also facing the "what's next" question, but in the meantime I look forward to following your journey. Onward.
    Pete
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  16. #16
    mburger's Avatar
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    Subscribed. Looking forward to following along.
    Mark
    Mk1, Frame #1929 Complete restoration/upgrade. BP 347 with Edelbrock PF4 439/420. 4 link with coilovers. 8.8 3.55, 15” Halibrand, New beefed up T5 w/short throw shifter, Power 4 wheel disc brakes, Custom original style steering wheel, shaft and boss, Heat/AC, Heated seats, PPW wipers w/washers, Forte’s throttle linkage, RT trunk hoop mod, hidden hinge conversion, Pusher cooling fans, full LED lighting, custom headrests, 5 point seat belts with sub pass through, Speedhut GPS gauges, battery drop box in trunk, LED courtesy lights, Breeze trunk cubby kit, and hidden BT sound w/subwoofer.

  17. #17
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Welcome to the party! It is great to have some friends following along.

    I will post more updates later, as some progress has been made. Today's question: Can I order a replacement VIN plate with the correct original information?

    My '67 Mustang Coupe project is at the very least going to get media blasted, at most I will be replacing the doors. Either way, the VIN plate needed to be removed. The problem is that the previous owner appearantly used some sort of solvent on it, and removed virtually all the painted portions. The embossed numbers and letters are clearly visible, but the plate looks lousy.



    Is it possible to order a replacement VIN plate using exactly the original information. I certainly don't want to change anything, I just want to have a clearly readable plate should anyone care to look at it. Someone mentioned a "Marti Report", but I am not sure what that is. Any thoughts? Thanks!!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  18. #18
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPete View Post
    Kevin, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement: "I began that [Mk4] journey to learn, to experience, to challenge myself. Regardless of the actually end product, I personally got more out of the build experience than I could have imagined."

    Building a Mk3, then an 818, have added a lot to my enjoyment, skills, and friend list. Now, I'm also facing the "what's next" question, but in the meantime I look forward to following your journey. Onward.
    Pete
    Thanks for your support, Pete! Please hold on to that Eastwood Flaring and Bending tool. I am going to have to replace every inch of brake and fuel lines, and I plan to use Stainless Steel this time. I hope I can borrow it again!! How is your engine coming? As always, call if you need help.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  19. #19
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Some progress has been made over the past few days. I have taken a boatload of photos so I can work backwards through them when it is time to reassemble the car. I will only post a few of them here. Rust has proven to be a much smaller issue than I feared might be the case. More on that in a minute.

    The windows are all removed, including all interior mechanisms. Wow! just removing them was a chore. Getting them back in is going to be a real bear. As you can imagine, all the rubber seals are shot and will get replaced. The chrome generally looks OK. We shall see if I get really anal retentive and have them re-chromed. Probably depends upon how much other chrome has to be redone.

    Both doors are removed.


    This is where I found the only major rust problems thus far. Both doors are rusted through at the lower inside front corner of each door. It appears that the seals on the wind wings must have been gone for a long time. Water seems to have dropped down the inside of the door into that lower inside front corner and rotted it out.

    Drivers side door:


    Passenger side Door:


    Both can probably be fixed, but I am considering just replacing the entire door. The cost isn't that much, and I don't want to worry about it. I don't like the fact that the area under the lower hinge attachment point is clearly compromised. Thoughts on this subject? Should I try to fix the metal damage, or should i just get new doors and be done with it? Thankfully that is the only major rust found thus far.

    I was given a referral to a local media blaster. Well, when I say local, I mean local to my painter. It's actually a long way from my office! Oh well, he seems trustworthy. I am going to have him media blast every inch of every piece of metal I plan to reuse. After he has cleaned off the rust and paint from the doors, I will decided if it is better just to replace them. One service the media blaster provides which sounds very interesting to me is that he will "Powder Coat Prime" the entire car (for a fee of course!). The thing that makes this process sound very enticing is that they will powder coat and seal the inside of the doors, the trunk, the engine bay, even the insides of the frame rails, and after it is baked on, the coating is extremely durable. Apparently this powder sticks exceptionally well after it is baked, and because it is electrically drawn to hidden areas, it will seal areas that you can't even see. After the powder is baked, it supposedly seals the metal so it can't rust. The owner of the media blasting company has a VW microbus that had been left out in the heat, rain, and constant sunshine. He had left it in the sun to prove how durable the product was. The primer was sun faded, but there was no rust to be found anywhere. This sounds like a very appealing option. Have any of you used this type of service? Appearantly you do your pre-paint priming, sanding, and surface prep just like you would over any other primer, but this one seals the metal. I am considering buying brand new doors, then having them blasted and powder coat primed like all the other metal in order to have them seal the interior of the doors. Thoughts?

    I have all the interior torn out. The Dash is opened up, only to discover another myriad of items to remove. I am planning on retrofitting the car with AC, so removing all the heater stuff is going to be required anyway.



    I am making notes of the wiring harness patterns. It is a good thing that I plan to completely replace the wiring harness. The wires are old, brittle, frayed in some areas. There are a lot of opportunities for shorts. All the wiring is coming out. It is 113 degrees today, and even my garage air conditioner can't keep up with that temp. I probably won't be working on it tonight!

    Updated list of my current thinking on the build plan:

    Coyote Motor - gotta do it!!
    upgraded rear suspension with Coil over Shocks - currently considering the Total Control Products Coil-over Rear Suspension.
    upgraded front suspension with Coil over shocks - Also considering the Total Control Products Subframe Clip. I have to get the stock shock towers out of the engine bay to fit the coyote in there, so this package will improve the handling as well as the stance.
    Disc brakes, both Front and rear, Baer or Wilwood.
    Automatic Transmission - Would like to get a complete engine/harness/tranny/gauges/AC package out of a wrecked 2018 Mustang. If so, this might be a very nice 8 speed (I think) tranny. The Coyote with a manual is more common in Mustang GT's but the Automatic can be found. It will be an automatic transmission, just not sure which one yet.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 07-24-2018 at 07:51 PM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  20. #20
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    Very cool! Congrats on the new project, looks like it will be fun.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.

  21. #21
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Kevin!
    What a coincidence. Just yesterday while working in the shop I was thinking of you, realized that I hadn't seen anything on the forum from you recently and intended to send a quick message just to say "Hey!". This morning I saw your announcement in the main forums and came here! Looks like a good basis to start from---I'll enjoy watching your progress

    All the best,
    Jeff

  22. #22
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Good update Kevin
    You should definitely get a Marti report. I think they are about $50. My buddy just got one for a 74 Bronco he just got and it has great info on it. All the build options and even where it was delivered to. That is an interesting question about the reproduction VIN plate. I guess since your car is already titled you won't really be getting any scrutiny on the VIN # but I would have some concerns about putting a non original one on there and the potential can of worms that could open up. Maybe no big deal though. Just something to think about.

    I have seen some 911 builders doing the frame powder coat thing. Looks like a great option. I have learned about all sorts of different ideas from following other builders on instagram. Maybe you could find some useful accounts there. Wonder if the extra thickness although minimal causes any issues on reassembly? I know I had to chase some of it out of the holes on the Cobra frame.
    I don't really see the benefit to keeping the old doors unless it is drastically cheaper. The car will be nowhere near an original example when finished so repo doors are no issue and would save you the trouble.

    Is your exterior vision for this car still a work in progress? You mention the chrome trim possibly needing some work. Does blacking out the trim appeal to you? I am thinking the same thing on my project car and will look into the process and cost for blacked out trim. Seems like a little more modern look but chrome looks great also.

    Are you considering IRS out of the wrecked Mustang as well?
    This is gonna be fun. We can spend all sorts of your money on this one!
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
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  23. #23
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    Welcome to the party! It is great to have some friends following along.

    I will post more updates later, as some progress has been made. Today's question: Can I order a replacement VIN plate with the correct original information?

    My '67 Mustang Coupe project is at the very least going to get media blasted, at most I will be replacing the doors. Either way, the VIN plate needed to be removed. The problem is that the previous owner appearantly used some sort of solvent on it, and removed virtually all the painted portions. The embossed numbers and letters are clearly visible, but the plate looks lousy.



    Is it possible to order a replacement VIN plate using exactly the original information. I certainly don't want to change anything, I just want to have a clearly readable plate should anyone care to look at it. Someone mentioned a "Marti Report", but I am not sure what that is. Any thoughts? Thanks!!

    My only worry about this is I hear that in some states that if you "tamper" with the VIN plate in any way, to include drilling out the rivets like you did, flags the car as stolen. They will then do a full title check and require more paperwork on all the parts. So I hope your state is not like that.


    I also think there might be issues with finding a company that will create a new VIN tag due to thieves wanting to re-VIN cars and that would make it easy for them. Maybe there is someone and they require you to send in the original one and will only use the existing numbers. I just don't know.
    Tim Sapp
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  24. #24
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Kevin,

    Looking forward to this build thread ... Thanks for sharing your next adventure with us.

    Carl
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  25. #25
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    Someone mentioned a "Marti Report", but I am not sure what that is. Any thoughts? Thanks!!

    I got curious and did a quick search. Depending on how much info you want, and how much you want to spend you can get build data on Ford cars from 1967 to current. You send them the VIN and they will send you a PDF with the cars build details, a little more money and they will send the "simulated" door data plate and a list of the significant dates and data. Like the build order, the build date, and the day it was first sold.

    For even more money, like $220, they also send you a matted 16"X20" board in a black frame with a reproduction window sticker, door plate sticker, and how unique your car was coming off the line.

    Might be cool if you were going for a completely numbers matching restoration trying to get back to exact stock. But since you are making a modern version of a 67 I don't know how much of a benefit I see out of it.
    Tim Sapp
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    Automatic Transmission - Would like to get a complete engine/harness/tranny/gauges/AC package out of a wrecked 2018 Mustang. If so, this might be a very nice 8 speed (I think) tranny. The Coyote with a manual is more common in Mustang GT's but the Automatic can be found. It will be an automatic transmission, just not sure which one yet.
    I've seen where Ford offers a coyote + 6R80 + control package https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-PMCA

  27. #27
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    Thanks for your support, Pete! Please hold on to that Eastwood Flaring and Bending tool. I am going to have to replace every inch of brake and fuel lines, and I plan to use Stainless Steel this time. I hope I can borrow it again!! How is your engine coming? As always, call if you need help.
    Sure, Kevin, let me know when you are ready for the Eastwood tool. Now, the tool is in Maricopa where Tony, "Turbomacncheese" is building an 818 but he's just about done with the brake lines. Plus, he says he'd love to see FlipTop someday. Geez, I feel like a matchmaker.
    Last edited by AZPete; 07-29-2018 at 10:44 AM.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  28. #28
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPete View Post
    Sure, Kevin, let me know when you are ready for the Eastwood tool. Now, the tool is in Marana where Tony, "Turbomacncheese" is building an 818 but he's just about done with the brake lines. Plus, he says he'd love to see FlipTop someday. Geez, I feel like a matchmaker.
    We need to do an FFR "Family Reunion" here in the greater Phx area . . . preferably when it is not going to be 115 degrees outside!! I didn't realize that TurboMac lived here locally. I would love to see his 818 project too. Fliptop is having beauty shots taken next Friday/Saturday, then she is off again for one more minor makeover. I am told that by September she will be completely done (we shall see!!) Don't rush Tony, it will likely be some time before I get to that point.
    Jazzman

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  29. #29
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    Good update Kevin
    You should definitely get a Marti report. I think they are about $50. My buddy just got one for a 74 Bronco he just got and it has great info on it. All the build options and even where it was delivered to. That is an interesting question about the reproduction VIN plate. I guess since your car is already titled you won't really be getting any scrutiny on the VIN # but I would have some concerns about putting a non original one on there and the potential can of worms that could open up. Maybe no big deal though. Just something to think about.

    I have seen some 911 builders doing the frame powder coat thing. Looks like a great option. I have learned about all sorts of different ideas from following other builders on instagram. Maybe you could find some useful accounts there. Wonder if the extra thickness although minimal causes any issues on reassembly? I know I had to chase some of it out of the holes on the Cobra frame.
    I don't really see the benefit to keeping the old doors unless it is drastically cheaper. The car will be nowhere near an original example when finished so repo doors are no issue and would save you the trouble.

    Is your exterior vision for this car still a work in progress? You mention the chrome trim possibly needing some work. Does blacking out the trim appeal to you? I am thinking the same thing on my project car and will look into the process and cost for blacked out trim. Seems like a little more modern look but chrome looks great also.

    Are you considering IRS out of the wrecked Mustang as well?
    This is gonna be fun. We can spend all sorts of your money on this one!
    Later last night I found the Marti Report site. I went ahead and ordered a new "Data Plate" (thats what they call it) and a basic report. I decided the fancy report wasn't necessary because my Mustang will not end up even close to original or numbers matching. It turns out that (at least in Arizona) the "data plate" is more jewelry than legal document. The actual VIN is the one that is stamped in the Frame. The data plate just makes it easier to read. I ordered the new plate with the "original style" installation rivits (a $3 upgrade!!) so that by the time it is installed, no one will be the wiser that it is not the actual original plate.

    I agree with you on the doors. I will likely order new ones. I'm still thinking I will have the new ones blasted and sealed like the rest of the body/frame.

    Exterior vision is definitely still evolving. I already like the whole look. I want to "add", never "detract". I have been thinking about painted bumpers or other "non-standard" bumper and lower valence treatments. Here is my challenge. I like the idea of updating the look. I like a more modern bumper style, but the "Eleanor" style bumper is already entirely dated! Painted, color matched bumpers, are the current "in thing". I am trying to figure out what will be the NEXT big thing, the Next style. We shall see.

    I am considering IRS, but the cost and complexity of modifying the mounting system on the '67 Mustang to match the 2016-17 IRS is quite significant. Kind of depends upon what I find at my local auto recycling yard. I am currently investigating a 4 link system that will use the existing axel, but upgrade the suspension to a fully adjustable coil over shock system. I'll let you know when I do! I am pretty sure the original leaf spring system is not going to go back into the car.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 07-26-2018 at 09:34 AM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

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  30. #30
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    I had pretty well decided to spend the bucks to replace the engine and Tranny with a Coyote Motor and a current automatic transmission. However, a friend who is a certified mechanic just called me with an interesting, and inexpensive, alternative. His neighbor recently died, leaving a garage and side yard full of cars. My friend got a fantastic deal on a Corvette (needs some work, but still it's a Vette!!). The neighbor also has a 1972 Thunderbird parts car with a complete driveline: 460 engine, C6 Tranny, 9" (we think) rear end, all original. They want the car out of the back yard. For $200, I can pick up the entire car! He suggests I strip out the running gear and then send the remains to the recycler. Best of all, he committed to help me completely disassemble the various parts and teach me how to rebuild them correctly! I was looking for an educational experience. I would have to redo the front suspension and remove the shock towers on the Mustang in order to shoehorn the 460 in there, but I was going to have to do that anyway to get the Coyote in there.

    OK my team of advisors: Am I crazy to consider this very old-school idea? What are my risks, what are my upsides? Thanks!!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

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  31. #31
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    That is interesting. Wonder what the overhaul cost on the drivetrain would end up being? Sounds like a good way to learn and if you sell the remains to the recycler you are essentially getting the drivetrain for free. Hard to beat that deal as long as the rebuild costs don't kill you.

    Have you considered option C?
    Build a bigger garage, buy the 72 T-birrd and restore that to original and also do the Mustang as the planned restomod. Clearly that is the correct answer! lol
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
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  32. #32
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Wow, does the hood come with it's own ZIP CODE?!?



    You'd have to spec out the rear track and tranny to see if they would fit, and you will be up to your eyeballs in old rusty parts...

    PERFECT!

    Only semi-joking here. You stated your goal is to learn and the 460 rebuild would be a great project for that! The coyote will be worth more in the end IMO (maybe not, who knows?) but if you want to be "the MAN" whenever anyone has an issue with an old car you will gain a ton of experience and insight by taking on the rebuild. Seriously worth considering...


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  33. #33
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    That is interesting. Wonder what the overhaul cost on the drivetrain would end up being? Sounds like a good way to learn and if you sell the remains to the recycler you are essentially getting the drivetrain for free. Hard to beat that deal as long as the rebuild costs don't kill you.

    Have you considered option C?
    Build a bigger garage, buy the 72 T-birrd and restore that to original and also do the Mustang as the planned restomod. Clearly that is the correct answer! lol
    Option C? HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! I can always depend upon my friends to help spend my money! I'm not sure which is more funny: The idea of building a bigger garage or the look on my wife's face when she is slapping me senseless for even uttering such an idea!!
    Jazzman

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  34. #34
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    Wow, does the hood come with it's own ZIP CODE?!?



    You'd have to spec out the rear track and tranny to see if they would fit, and you will be up to your eyeballs in old rusty parts...

    PERFECT!

    Only semi-joking here. You stated your goal is to learn and the 460 rebuild would be a great project for that! The coyote will be worth more in the end IMO (maybe not, who knows?) but if you want to be "the MAN" whenever anyone has an issue with an old car you will gain a ton of experience and insight by taking on the rebuild. Seriously worth considering...

    No, but if you backed that thing all the way into my garage, it would still have at least two feet sticking out through the garage door! No thank you!!

    Considering that FlipTop went "just a little" over budget, going under budget on this project would certainly be a step in the right direction. The learning intrigues me. The learning an engine that may be considered a dinosaur in less than a decade is somewhat concerning. (I just came from a conference at which two unrelated speakers both made statements that electric and driverless cars will dominate the marketplace in the next 10-20 years.) Even if I had to spend $5000 additional to rebuild the various parts, My "all in" cost for the entire drivetrain is still less than 1/4 the cost of buying brand new modern components. And if I want to live in the ultra paranoid, post apocalyptic future, if all the computers are wiped out by some sort of an EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse) weapon, this old school car should start. (How I would pump gas into it without electricity is never explained in the movies!!) It does intrigue me. I am concerned about value, and about gas mileage. This sucker will be powerful, but it will guzzle fuel to create that power. The Coyote gets big power but does so sipping fuel. But I guess I have already done one of those. No reason not to have both!

    Best of all I can sell the existing 289 engine and C4 tranny. I can probably double my cost to buy the T-Bird. Thus the 460 could cost me nothing. HMMMM!
    Last edited by Jazzman; 08-02-2018 at 06:07 PM.
    Jazzman

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  35. #35
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    Jazzman, An old wise man once said - if you go under budget, you are not trying hard enough.

    What are the weight and size differences in the two engines? How much room do you have to use?

    Thats the first question that comes to mind, what will they look like after being installed?
    Mk3.1 347 AFR 205cc Heads A9L EFI siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD 6AL ignition Vortech V-3 3 Link PS/PB

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  36. #36
    On a roll Al_C's Avatar
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    A comment from the peanut gallery: a 460 is a rather large chunk of iron. I can't even imagine how much that weighs. A coyote, on the other hand, weighs a mere 440 lbs. (or so). One of the criticisms of big block Mustangs over the years was they had 99% of their weight on the front end. If you're looking for a drag racer, maybe this is an outstanding idea. But, if you want something closer to an even front/rear distribution, you might want to go with the original coyote idea. Just sayin'.

    That said, rebuilding a big block could be quite entertaining. OK, I'll be quiet now.
    Mk IV Roadster - #8650 - delivered 7-17-2015 - first start 7-28-2018 - first go-kart 10-13-2018 - licensed and on the road 9-9-19: body/paint completed 3-17-2020.
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  37. #37
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Jazzman,

    We met at Dave's house, I helped you figure out your front tire wobble issue with Jeff

    Not wanting to rain on your '67 parade but you might want to check engine dimensions for your Coyote or 460 build thoughts . . . biggest engine you could get in a '67 frame was a standard 390/427/428 - and they were shoe-horned in at best. If you have some one to reference back to that has already done a 460 or Coyote transplant in a '67, then go for it, otherwise my thoughts are they are too big (read: too long or too wide). Even the Boss 429's had to have the spring towers modified and the underbelly tweaked to fit the Boss 9. It was not a factory build, but rather an aftermarket modification by a third party.

    That being said, there are front end spring tower delete packages available that allow just about anything in the engine bay and convert to rack-n-pinion for steering. Coil over shocks or McStruts (McPherson)

    That would drift you away from any "originality" you might want to maintain.

    I'd research all your [potential] engine swaps and then go from there . . . 351's bored-n-stroked to beyond 427 are do-able. FE motors are really pushing it.

    When did my '67 Coupe (16 years ago), I stayed with the 5.0 EFI engine and an AOD - easy drop-in project. Everythings already set to take that combo.

    Just my 2˘ having been-there-done-that . . .

    FWIW, the VIN plate can be silk-screened back to original if you have all the info.

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 08-02-2018 at 08:37 PM.
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
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  38. #38
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_C View Post
    A comment from the peanut gallery: a 460 is a rather large chunk of iron. I can't even imagine how much that weighs. A coyote, on the other hand, weighs a mere 440 lbs. (or so). One of the criticisms of big block Mustangs over the years was they had 99% of their weight on the front end. If you're looking for a drag racer, maybe this is an outstanding idea. But, if you want something closer to an even front/rear distribution, you might want to go with the original coyote idea. Just sayin'.

    That said, rebuilding a big block could be quite entertaining. OK, I'll be quiet now.
    Actually, that is good counsel Al. Thanks! I appreciate your perspective.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

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  39. #39
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Jazzman,

    We met at Dave's house, I helped you figure out your front tire wobble issue with Jeff

    Not wanting to rain on your '67 parade but you might want to check engine dimensions for your Coyote or 460 build thoughts . . . biggest engine you could get in a '67 frame was a standard 390/427/428 - and they were shoe-horned in at best. If you have some one to reference back to that has already done a 460 or Coyote transplant in a '67, then go for it, otherwise my thoughts are they are too big (read: too long or too wide). Even the Boss 429's had to have the spring towers modified and the underbelly tweaked to fit the Boss 9. It was not a factory build, but rather an aftermarket modification by a third party.

    That being said, there are front end spring tower delete packages available that allow just about anything in the engine bay and convert to rack-n-pinion for steering. Coil over shocks or McStruts (McPherson)

    That would drift you away from any "originality" you might want to maintain.

    I'd research all your [potential] engine swaps and then go from there . . . 351's bored-n-stroked to beyond 427 are do-able. FE motors are really pushing it.

    When did my '67 Coupe (16 years ago), I stayed with the 5.0 EFI engine and an AOD - easy drop-in project. Everythings already set to take that combo.

    Just my 2˘ having been-there-done-that . . .

    FWIW, the VIN plate can be silk-screened back to original if you have all the info.

    Doc
    Thanks, Doc! Yes I remember . . . all too well! How embarrassing. I sure did appreciate all the help.

    I know that a Coyote Transplant has been done, actually several times, because I have read the threads on other Mustang oriented forums. Haven't yet read about a 460, but if my information is correct, that is the same block as a 429, which I did read about. You are absolutely correct, the shock/spring towers have to go in either case. The good news is that there are front coil-over suspension kits for these cars that 1) improve the suspension dramatically, 2) lower the car 0.75"-2.0" depending upon the kit you select, 3) delete the shock towers, and 4) have built in motor mounts to specifically match the Coyote. The bad news is that it appears all the IFS systems that eliminate the shock towers can be purchased with motor mounts to fit many different engines, but none list the 429/460 big block. This may be the killer right here.

    The consensus seems to be that the 460 will turn out big power for straight lines, but if you have to steer it, it's much greater weight makes it steer like a pig! The other comments are:
    302 - Cheapest to build, easy to maintain, decent power, but certainly less than the others.
    351 - Perhaps best combination of cost, parts availability, potential for modification, original-ish look, and weight and manuverabilty.
    Coyote - Certainly the most expensive, Lots of current use into Classic Mustangs, several choices of IFS upgrades available, must remove the shock towers to fit. Due to low weight, this would be the most maneuverable. Also has best mileage.
    460 - By far the heaviest, but lots of power potential. Really hurts driveablity, and gets lousy mileage (one site said 8-10mpg!) It won't fit without removing shock towers, and none of the available IFS systems will support the weight and engine mount locations of the 460 big block.

    FWIW, A Ford 429/460 engine weighs 640lbs. A stock Coyote weighs 444 lbs. The coyote is listed "without accessories", and the 460 makes no comment at all about accessories or none. Clearly the 460 is a big, heavy engine.

    This option appears to be a dead end. Hmmm. Too bad.

    Thanks for all the feedback!!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

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  40. #40
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Well....just to play Devil's advocate. That 460 weight could come down significantly with aluminum heads and intake which would be natural upgrades for a performance build anyway. Probably lose about 100 pounds when all said and done. They don't have to have poor driveability---when you are dealing with this much displacement they don't have to be built to or tuned to a ragged edge to make lots of power. Mileage, yeah, they're big. Takes more to feed 'em. That could be mitigated to some extent by slowing it down at highway speed via a high rear axle ratio or better yet with an overdrive high gear which the C6 doesn't have (Ford AODs can be built to take the power). I've long said that the Ford 385 Series (429/460) is some of the cheapest horsepower per dollar in the blue oval family. Torque? You don't know torque with your Coyote but a 429/460 will teach you all about TORQUE Oh heck, why stop there; if you're gonna' build a 385 series anyway you might as well just go ahead with a stroker crank and make it a 514!

    New tech Coyote or old tech powerhouse? Neither one is a wrong answer, they're just different answers! You're going to have fun either way and we're going to enjoy watching!

    Cheers,
    Jeff

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