Can I get a little help with my build plan??

[Usudno]

So.. New to the forum here but not to factory five roadsters. Nearly 10 years ago I began drooling over them. Now, it's finally time. I know what I want but I'm not sure of the best way to go about getting it.

Wants

All/mostly new parts
306 with t5 from mike forte
No power brakes or steering
17" wheels that are being given with the base kit now
Options to include stainless pipes, wind wings, visors, chrome roll bar, 3 link.

That being said... The complete kit looks good. The catch is, I would like to spread the costs of the build over a 3 month period. I have read that breeze automotive can supply ez packs to complete the build. What I really want to know is what will I be running down if I don't get the complete kit?? Will breeze have every little piece I need to finish or will I be searching for spindles, control arms, pedal boxes, driveshaft from other places???
My mind says go with the complete kit but the ability to run the cost through my business spread monthly makes a base kit+ new parts more attractive... Lastly the time aspect of the build... My father and I have completely restored a 1956 ford thunderbird frame off with all parts refurbished and or rebuilt as well as painted in a 6 month period. This project (using the complete kit) seems like we could have it ready with 2 possibly 3 months for paint if all parts were on hand. Going the base kit plus new parts seems like I would need a purchase plan as well as a build plan... I think this is were I really could use some help. If I go base kit... What parts should I order in which order I you guys opinion?? Are there any hard to get parts that I should hunt down during the wait for delivery. I have read over the build Manual twice but I realize that it isn't exactly the best way to go about the build..


Thanks for any help that can be offered.

Scott

[ryanmac]

Planning is everything, especially if you want to build it within three months. 'Plan the work, work the plan!'

Spend a month researching Build Threads, making a spreadsheet of estimated costs, and making a realistic schedule.

What rearend gear do you want? What brakes? What fuel tank and pump? Are you going to paint or powdercoat the aluminum panels? Are you going to repaint the rearend or motor? What chassis or build mods are you wanting to do? The list goes on and on...

There are no right or wrong answers to these questions...it's your build. But, you'll need to figure 90+ % this stuff out beforehand if you want it done in two months. Most say they can build these cars in 250 to 300 hours. My dad and I build ours last year in just over four months, but that included donor diassembly, mods, and painting donor parts & aluminum panels.

[Usudno]

Breeze ez stop sn95 fronts and backs. 8.8 fox body rear end... I have one in my sights. I have 3 spreadsheets...

Donor build
Base + new parts
Complete kit...

The base plus new parts seems like the way to go.. I'm just not sure of what little parts will add up with it.. A packing list from a complete kit vs base kit would help!! I don't want to regret not getting the complete kit if I spend more on the base plus new.

No mods besides cup holders. No painting of panels. Undercoating the body and portions of panels that show. Fat mat will be used in the cockpit.
Left out the gearing.. 3.27

[Rugman86]

I am interested in purchasing an 818 would love to see one in person. Anyone living in NewYork,New Jersey or Connecticut that has one.

[wareaglescott]

One thing I recommend if you intend to do this in the 2-3 months you mention is to check with factory five on any items that may have long back orders. You may be planning on a part and not have it thus slowing you down. I am about 4 months in and received shipment notification today from FFR that my last back ordered part is on the way. I know at times people have waited much longer for parts. I for example ordered 17" wheels. They could not get them to me in time for me to have my car on the ground so I was forced to either wait and stop progress, go to a third party for wheels or upgrade to the 18". I had a couple times where I had to move on to other areas of the build while waiting for back orders.
You may get everything very quick. This is something to consider though.

[ryanmac]

Foxbody 8.8 will need five lug conversion if you want to run the FFR 17" Halibrand wheels. And, you'll need 94-04 spindles to get five lugs up front too.

Other items you'll need going base kit: aftermarket gauges, wiring harness, parking brake assembly and cables, throttle cable, adjustable clutch cable, throttle pedal (russ thompson), mustang pedalbox and master cylinder, manual steering rack, tie rod ends, hvac (?), aluminum radiator, coolant overflow, hoses, belt(s), motor mounts, tranny mount, driveshaft, driveshaft safety loop (?), rear shocks & springs (coilovers), fuel pump, tank & straps, fuel sending unit, tank vent, fuel filter...just to name a few...

We went complete kit and bought a used 2003 gt for drivetrain. We wanted a mild, reliable cruising car. We are happy with this route and have recouped over $3500 parting out what was leftover. Only thing we'd consider upgrading / changing is going to power brakes. If you are used to classic cars with manual brakes, then okay; but if you think you'll ever auto-x it, then start with bigger and power brakes from the beginning.

[Usudno]

Yeah that would make for a problem. My biggest concern is having a complete list of parts needed to make a "complete kit" I don't want to order what I think is everything to get to a roller and be missing 2 small parts that I would get with the complete kit. With all parts on hand I have no doubt that we can get it ready for paint in 3 months. Having the correct parts on hand as well as the best way and when to procure them is what I am needing help with.
After a conversation with mark at breeze automotive he stated if I got a rear end and 94-95 mustang gt spindles he could "fill in" the rest. I'm going to get clarification on fill in tomorrow. I will see if he will help me split the parts needed to complete the car into 3 packages to follow the order of the build manual.

[Usudno]

Ryanmac

Plan is breeze ez pak cool,fuel,stopsn95 front and back, driveshaft, steering rack, pre bent hard brake lines,

That leaves sorting out the clutch cabling, wiring harness (Ron Francis) a pedal box (does ffr offer just the pedal assembly) the previously mentioned 94-95 spindles.. The 8.8 I am looking at will be rebuilt and include 5 lugs. Breeze just released a 3 link kit that uses qa1 coil overs. He will also supply the front suspension that necessitates the 94-95 spindles. You brought up a good one in the master cylinders for the brakes.. I'm sure I can get my hands on those from ffr if needed.
Gauges, I'm going to go Old school with **********.

[ryanmac]

FFR would sell the wilwood pedal box that comes with a complete kit, otherwise you'll need to buy used pedalbox (craigslist or salvage yard).

Also, need to plan on buying headers and possible 'j-pipes' to get from motor to side pipes. Are you going carb or efi? You'll need motor accessories (starter, ignition module, coil, alternator, etc). And, how will you control electric radiator fan? You'll probably need an extra coolant sensor, switch, and relay as they supply these in a complete kit.

PM me with your email, and I'll send you the complete kit's packing list via email...about forty pages listing every nut, bolt, and part.

[Usudno]

Carb.. Motor is turn key with all accessories from forte. See that's what I'm wondering.... Relays and little things that can hold up a build!!

[ryanmac]

I'd look at the complete kit's packing list and ask yourself, what is this for & do I have a plan or source for this. The base kit will have all the comestics for the body (latches, lights, trim, etc). You'll need to source everything else to make it run, steer, and brake.

Another tip...save ALL of your receipts...and as real paper (invoice) receipts and not website / order confirmation print outs. Eventually you'll need to pass a state inspection and they will want documentation on everything. This is where a complete kit helps alot, as the answer to 95% of their questions was 'it came in the kit, and here is the packing list to prove it.' Ohio went over our car for over three hours.

[Bobby Doug]

Once you go past the basic build you might want to reconsider your build time frame. Mods usually add time and more $$$ to your build. Ask me how I know. This forum and the other one can be your friend and enemy (to your wallet).
Doug

[6t8dart]

Here are some of my opinions based on building and starting with a donor kit.

Go with a complete kit, and use its components, they are perfectly fine. You will save tons of money and most importantly, time. I have spent close to $500 on fasteners. Lots of upgrades after will also drain your bank account. Little things like parking brake cables, fuel system, wiring add up very quickly.

Is am also starting to think that a coyote is about the same price as a 306, might want to look at that option too.

Get the powder coated frame
Get a set of quieter side pipes.
Unless you are racing, forget the 3 link
Get the upgrade gauges, or order from Speedhut
Get upgraded brakes
Get 18" wheels, more tire options in the future.

[KDubU]

Go complete kit, much easier and you won't waste time shopping for parts. Building a roadster in 2-3 mths is possible but don't count on having your engine and tranny within that time period so get this ordered up front. Mike may be able to it to you in that timeframe but sometimes 8 weeks becomes 12 really quick. Without this, you won't be able to get that far on your build. Also as someone else mentioned, there are always back ordered parts and some can really put a kink into your timeline. For example, I picked up my kit early Sept '15 and only received my windshield in early Jan '16.

[CraigS]

How about buying the engine/trans, tires, etc up front and then wait for a sale and grab a complete kit. This would help spread out your purchases. Or the other way around. If you go w/ a carbed 306, you really don't need the engine trans until it's ready to be installed. BTW, I strongly recommend power steering. BTW2 not to get nosey about your personal finances, (and I certainly don't want you to explain as it's none of my business) but w/ a couple of credit cards in use, I am not sure how spreading out the costs over only three months makes a difference.

[cfriedman67]

I am currently doing a donor build and also purchased a bunch of things when they had the 50-50 sale in late spring 2016 such as willwood pedal box, rear brakes, front control arms among other things. My engine, rear end, gas tank, etc... came from a 1996 Mustang Cobra. I was also torn between the donor kit and the complete kit as I was trying to make it as cost effective as possible. If I was to start again I would go the complete kit route. Like others have said (I choose not to believe) you spend a lot of time and energy purchasing small parts, screws etc... that you never think of and also spend precious time going back and forth to the store to get them. In the end I am not sure how much money I will actually save. Good luck and enjoy!

[scottiec]

Although I just ordered my basic kit with some upgrades, I think the complete kit is a great value and helps simplify things. If you are on a time crunch (which to me, the time spent building the car is part of the enjoyment and journey), I would definitely go with the complete kit if you don't plan on doing tons of upgrades. I spent a lot of time weighing the options, planning, and ultimately sticking to my budget. Best of luck!

[phileas_fogg]

I recommend you talk to Forte about gearing. Like you, I thought I wanted a 3.27. Forte recommended a 3.55 with some very solid reasoning.

Cheers,


John

[2bking]

.... I strongly recommend power steering.....

This is a mod well worth the price and time. It makes the car steerable at low speeds and very stable on the highway. The stability on the highway is because of the increase in caster angle from 2* with manual to 7* or 8* with power.

I strongly recommend the Wilwood brake upgrade and the Wilwood pedal box. The pedal box has individual masters for front and rear and allows adjusting the front to rear bias using a balance bar. This setup comes with .75 dia. master cylinders which I traded out for the .70 dia. ones to lessen the pedal effort by 12% with no noticeable change to pedal travel.

[ram_g]

Lots of good info on options. I'm curious re your motivation to build the car in such short a time? If you want to end up with a driveable Cobra in the shortest time possible, why not buy a completed car? In 90% of the cases (especially for a first build, and with paint) FFRs cost more to build than they sell for. IMHO the magic of the FFR formula is to enjoy the build process as much as the driving experience, and it seems to me you'll be short changing yourself on that front if you insist on a short time frame to savor and enjoy the build.

Just my $.02

[skullandbones]

Hi Scott,

There are very few perfect answers but one test you can give yourself is is this component or idea I had what I really wanted. Of course, it's harder to do it prior to the build. I would say if you have an opportunity to ride with someone who has a completed car, you may be able to answer some of those questions. Example: I'm still not sure if the 3.27 or 3.55 is right (I have the 3.27) but now I'm leaning toward 3.55. I also wanted my car to look and handle like a racer. It does and I'm happy with that. The problem with that is I did a lot of mods to the suspension after the initial build.

Do you have a real vision for your roadster? Pick one out on the forum. For me it was Jeff K's AX car. If you have a vision along with the template, you are far ahead of the game.

I wouldn't press myself to a three month time frame unless you are doing it just for bragging rights. You have help and you should still be able to do it under a year with ease. Most have spent much more time building theirs. It would also make the cash flow/incorporating into business plan easier.

Another tendency I'm seeing is the complete kit is a very good thing (time saved). Personally, I love to tinker and do mods and change things. Then change again. It all depends on your temperament and if you will be satisfied with the finished product.

BTW: I know I know I have spent close to 1k for fasteners of one kind or another.

Good luck. You will have fun no matter which route you take.

WEK.

[Usudno]

Honestly, all of these good points make me reconsider. I'll try to respond to all seperatly...

Timing- This project will be complete by myself, my father, my son, my grandfather. We originally planned to start a year ago but work got extremely busy (I'm a general contractor) My grandfather is slowing down (read getting to old to help much with the project) but the memories created by building it together, all 4 generations will be priceless to myself, my father and son not to mention my grandfather. Hence the getting it rolling asap.

Budget/spreading it out - Due to my buisiness and the way i have it structured, it would be much better for me to spread the "truck parts" over a 3-4 month period. If reason outweighs the benifits i may just go complete kit as i think it would be easier, faster, and more enjoyable.

complete vs base- I'm terrified of having a missing bracket here, missing bolt or specialties there. I really think the complete kit is the way to go.

power steering vs manual - I drive a manual car nearly every weekend and it hasn't bothered me before. Steering on the T-bid is also 60 sum odd years old!


If only FFR would sell me a complete kit purchased in pieces over a three month time for the same price as the complete kit i would have my cake and eat it too!!!

[wareaglescott]

If only FFR would sell me a complete kit purchased in pieces over a three month time for the same price as the complete kit i would have my cake and eat it too!!!

When I ordered my kit I payed a deposit and I believe the rest was due like 15 days before kit completion or something like that. If you were willing to wait 3 months to get it you could order now and make those payments in 3 chunks the next 3 months. Obviously that would delay things but might be an option.

[2bking]

power steering vs manual - I drive a manual car nearly every weekend and it hasn't bothered me before. Steering on the T-bid is also 60 sum odd years old!

The steering using the manual rack is much faster than the old cars when it took one to two revolutions of the steering wheel just to turn a corner. The power steering racks are 2.25-3 turns lock to lock depending on which rack you choose. I have the 2.5 turn lock to lock and turn a corner with a quarter turn of the wheel. When I was sorting out the bugs, I drove mine without the PS working and it wasn't much fun

[Usudno]

Well the timeline is mainly for my grandfather. Honestly I don't know how much longer he will be around. If he were to pass before we started the timeline would not be a problem.

[scottiec]

When I ordered my kit I payed a deposit and I believe the rest was due like 15 days before kit completion or something like that. If you were willing to wait 3 months to get it you could order now and make those payments in 3 chunks the next 3 months. Obviously that would delay things but might be an option.

I think the kits are taking a lot less than 3 months. I ordered mine on the 10th and the completion date is the 11/5. Just an FYI

[Usudno]

I was told today about 3 weeks on production time. I think we have decided on a complete kit.

[Usudno]

The complete kit will fit my deadline... timeline and it will eliminate my worry about missing parts. I may be able to build it Cheaper but bottom dollar is not the goal here! Having it done for my grandfather and the rest of us to enjoy is the number 1 goal! Thanks for the help!!! I truly appreciate it.

[Stork]

This has been a great back and forth thread conversation! I know I wouldn't personally ever go with the basic kit, because my time and energy has a high dollar amount attached to it (wife, two kids, job, etc.) and I do not want to be chasing parts all over the place. My first build, when I finally can get one going, is likely to be pretty by the book and the complete kit seems to fit that better. But that's just my planned experience.

[edwardb]

power steering vs manual - I drive a manual car nearly every weekend and it hasn't bothered me before. Steering on the T-bid is also 60 sum odd years old!

Yet another thread where the two advantages of power steering are described (effort plus improved front end geometry and driveability) and the only thing heard is effort. Listen to those who have had both (I'm one of many) and who will never build without power steering again. The reduced effort is nice when very slow speed and parking. But at speed agree the effort difference isn't a big deal. But the improved geometry really improves the overall handling and stability. The difference is dramatic. This is a short wheel base very high powered car. Not really comparable to your 60 year old T-Bird.

[Kpt112]

Scott,

For what it is worth I ordered my kit in Feb 9th of 2015, picked it up on March 31st 2015 and had it built and on the road with inspection on June 21, 2016. My brother in law gave me some great advice regarding some of the things that impact the ride and joy of driving. I added Power Steering, Power assist brakes and an IRS. While the car did not need these things I am glad I did them. I made many changes to my original order and FFR was very accommodating. Take your time and end joy the process. I would not waste my time with a donor unless money was an issue. Half the joy I get is knowing i build the car from the ground up. There are a million decisions to make and a million more to put together. Once your car is ordered you can begin to fall asleep an night dreaming about the build and actually driving the car. Good luck and keep us posted to your progress.

Thanks
Kevin

[Avalanche325]

Here are a couple things to consider:
If you want to spread the payments out, just save your money a wait a little longer.
The complete kit is the best value, as long as you don't stray from stock. You will not build it cheaper unless you put used parts on it. Maybe not even then.
Breaking things up into different orders will cost you hundreds of dollars in extra shipping costs.

[Usudno]

Plan has changed a bit. Financially it's not a burden.. just easier to show as fleet parts with a smaller monthly hit. The complete kit will be ordered November 1 with a few options. Engine choice has changed.. we are going with a 351w long block from tristar engines. I will stick with mike forte for the transmission. With that said we will probably take delivery around February. This leaves me time. We all know that's a bad thing when combined with this place! That being said.. I want to upgrade the brakes. I was wondering what your opinions are on conra brake upgrades. What all would I need from say a 98 cobra to upgrade them?