Brandon's 818R Build

[blomb11]

Where should the front edge of the hood line up? Should it be down on the nose insert inline with the fenders? Or does it sit a littler higher up? My hood doesn’t quite fit so I might have to take the front corner edges down in order to get to to sit in between the fenders.

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[lance corsi]

Brandon, it looks like your fenders are too close together. The leading edge of the hood should be flush with the fenders on both sides. The grill insert should sit proud of the hood/fender line by about 5/8-3/4”. On mine, the grill insert was too wide, making it impossible to reduce my hood/fender gaps. I ultimately cut 1/2” out of the center of my grill insert to remedy this.

[STiPWRD]

You'll also probably want to trim down the edges of the hood so it sits lower and more flush with the fenders, that's what I had to do with my hood. I had to trim the edges of just about all my fiberglass panels to improve the fit. When they cut them out of the molds at FFR, I think they err on the side of "extra material".

[FFRWRX]

You'll also probably want to trim down the edges of the hood so it sits lower and more flush with the fenders, that's what I had to do with my hood. I had to trim the edges of just about all my fiberglass panels to improve the fit. When they cut them out of the molds at FFR, I think they err on the side of "extra material".

I had to do the same thing on one side. The lip (the part of the fibreglass that runs "down" at a right angle from the hood itself) was too long and contacted the fender with the hood too high up. No amount of adjusting can fix that without cutting some of the lip off. Not a huge deal to do, as it is a part that doesn't show when done. But, at the same time I moved part of that lip inwards to get a more consistent gap with the fender. The hood was basically a bit too wide at the front. I built up the fibreglass on the inside of the lip (to make it a lot thicker) then sanded it thinner from the outside.

[blomb11]

Okay thanks for confirming. It also seems like the draft angle on the hood is not the same as the fenders. I will have to do the same approach as you to make it fit.

Since I am running wider wheels in the rear I think I will have to do the opposite to the rear deck lids. I have the side sails pulled out slightly to cover the tires which leaves are large gap between the side sails and the rear deck lids. I will have to build one side up to take out this gap.

[blomb11]

It has been a busy couple months with work, the holidays, buying a new home, and selling our current home. However, I have still been able to get time in the garage to make progress on the body work.

This was my first major fiberglass work so I definitely learned a lot. I decided to follow Hobby Racer and others to join the 2 rear decks. This also led me to cutting off and bonding the winglets to the side sails. It took me a little bit to figure out where I wanted the final pieces to live to try and get decent gaps. I first cut off the lips and sanded them flat to try to give a good joining surface. I also sanded about 3" above the joining line to give some good surface area to lay the fiberglass to. I laid 3 layers of fiberglass on the inside, filled the gaps on the top with an epoxy slurry, and then laid 2 layers of fiberglass on top. It seems pretty sturdy now whereas when it was only the bottom layers it felt weak.

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Since I have the side sails pulled outward quite a bit to fit the larger rear wheels this cause a huge gap. So I decided to build this area up to bring the gap down to 0.125". This is also when I bonded the winglets to the side sails. Note to anyone wanting to do this: mix your slurry thicker and just put down enough on the bottom to get the location/angle correct before you pour resin to fill the gap. This way it will seal the bottom edge and hold it in the correct place. If not like me you will see if seep through and run down the inside of the side sail oops! I will have some cleaning to do on the side of the side sails. However, I am really impressed with using 0.125" wax and filling in the gaps and build up material. I could have mixed my slurry thicker and it would have helped keep things in place and gel faster. Now I need to spread some bondo like slurry over it to get a smooth surface that matches the side sails.

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As FFRWRX recommended I added some epoxy resin to the inside of the hood at the nose. I then sanded down the side flanges, where are drafted to begin with, to be more perpendicular which allowed the hood to sit better between the front fenders and nose insert. I noticed the hood sits proud above the fenders by ~0.25" so I think I may sand this down to make the hood more flush to the fenders. I noticed this on the rear deck lids too so might do the same there. My gaps and body lines won't be perfect but they sit pretty high to just leave them as is.

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Next up is hood and rear deck quick latch pins, cut down and install doors, cut out all of the air openings, seal off radiator, and side scoop install....

[J R Jones]

Joining panels, I use 2" glass cloth tape that I buy in 50' rolls. Tape edges are woven so no loose fibers. I grind out the upper surfaces before application lest the tape be sanded off during leveling and finishing.
The underside is reinforced with matt and cloth, and box sections to give the part beam strength. This was joining two hatches and a six inch center hinge support panel.
jim

Dino rear lid.JPG

Dino rear hood.JPG

[FFRWRX]

An aside, but referring to J R Jones. Funny, when I built my Dino replica I did the opposite. I cut what was originally one large trunk/engine panel into 2 pieces to be more like the original; one for engine access and one for the trunk.

Screenshot 2023-01-23 at 8.44.22 PM.jpg

[J R Jones]

An aside, but referring to J R Jones. Funny, when I built my Dino replica I did the opposite. I cut what was originally one large trunk/engine panel into 2 pieces to be more like the original; one for engine access and one for the trunk.

Screenshot 2023-01-23 at 8.44.22 PM.jpg

Rick,
My guess is that is a Fiero chassis, providing double hatch mechanicals? Who made the body? SBC is a tight fit.
My body is an eighties(?) Karma in hand laid cloth for a VW rear flat four. I found it in GA. and sold off the VW parts. Since the VW pan lacks structure, this body has quite a bit of it.
I have revised the styling that was not correct, and supplemented some Dino features that do not work as well as I want. I lean towards functional and serviceable. The theme will be a race car returned to the street, but no race graphics.
The body is on a 818 chassis I bought unfinished from owner #2. I have no regard for the Subaru powertrain and I will make an Acura 3.5 V6 fit. Kind of a Dino NSX.
jim

Dino rear comp.JPG

[driveslikejehu]

As usual I enjoy your progress cuz your kit is like mine; a white frame R. I'm a few weeks behind you as I just started hanging the body panels on loosely to check what needs cutting/clearance, etc.
They really made of mess of the rear deck on the R, I think...
Have you thought of what to do about the little vestige of curved body line in front of the roll hoop? I'm thinking remove it and continue the door line back to the square tube? Or just leave it?
brandon winglet.jpg

[blomb11]

As usual I enjoy your progress cuz your kit is like mine; a white frame R. I'm a few weeks behind you as I just started hanging the body panels on loosely to check what needs cutting/clearance, etc.
They really made of mess of the rear deck on the R, I think...
Have you thought of what to do about the little vestige of curved body line in front of the roll hoop? I'm thinking remove it and continue the door line back to the square tube? Or just leave it?
brandon winglet.jpg

We are learning things from each other's progress...now you got me concerned the wiper kit won't fit under my hood. So I need to look at this next. I am going to leave the piece on the winglet for now and re-evaluate later when I do the final body work to prep for wrapping the car. I am not sure about your hood and rear decks but mine seem to sit above the fender lines ~0.125-0.25". I am not sure if this is normal or if these parts should be sanded down to make it all sit flush.

[driveslikejehu]

...now you got me concerned the wiper kit won't fit under my hood. So I need to look at this next..

Maybe you got to this already... I found the hood fits fine over the mono wiper with a little bending of the arm. The kit comes with a hood support panel. My cut down hood sits just right on it with a 1/4" block on those fender mounts by the windshield

[blomb11]

Maybe you got to this already... I found the hood fits fine over the mono wiper with a little bending of the arm. The kit comes with a hood support panel. My cut down hood sits just right on it with a 1/4" block on those fender mounts by the windshield

I have not installed the mono wiper kit yet, but your comments settled my concerns a bit. I installed the rear hood support, about 1/4-1/2 higher on the windshield surround so this should help too. I am curious to know how you trimmed your hood since I will need to do the same. I have a dremel, angle grinder, and hack saw like you mentioned I can use. Your picture of the fitment looks good.

[blomb11]

I got the hood pins installed last night and man it looks so much better with it installed! As mentioned the hood sits above the fenders a bit and I think FFRWRX mentioned he sanded his down to fit more flush. So I may do this too down the line, but I need to try installing the wiper to make sure it clears under the hood first.

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[driveslikejehu]

Yes, the flanges or returns or whatever they're called around the edges seem to be left large. That may be what this mostly incomprehensible placard is saying? "undersized gaps...?" It may be obvious to some, but not me...
placard.jpg

[blomb11]

Yes, the flanges or returns or whatever they're called around the edges seem to be left large. That may be what this mostly incomprehensible placard is saying? "undersized gaps...?" It may be obvious to some, but not me...
placard.jpg

Well I guess that makes sense...trim to fit. Much like the composite parts at my work are made .

[Dave 53]

Having had a little bit of experience with body panels flying off the car at speed due to inadequate securing pins (namely, me forgetting to secure them), I recall reading somewhere, maybe on this forum, about those push button panel securing pins. The hood will see a lot of lift and a very robust pin system is needed there, perhaps more robust than those. And the trailing edge of the hood next to the windshield moves around quite a bit testing the aft pins. Maybe they're okay if you also have a forward hood hinge.

Buttonwillow 7-31-22.jpgI'm getting a lot of milage out of this picture having posted it a few times for various reasons. In it, you can clearly see the hood lifting at probably around 70 mph.

When I trimmed my hood, I used a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel - worked great. Seems like sanding would take forever.

Very little gap is needed between the hood and windshield with the mono wiper. I didn't need to trim anything to make it work, but I did bend the arm to fine tune.

[FFRWRX]

When I trimmed my hood, I used a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel - worked great. Seems like sanding would take forever.

I used a belt sander with a fairly coarse belt. Takes it down very quickly. Too quickly if you aren't careful or comfortable with a belt sander. Then a smaller random orbital one to smooth it. To remove more material then yes, I use a cutting tool (air body saw).

[blomb11]

Having had a little bit of experience with body panels flying off the car at speed due to inadequate securing pins (namely, me forgetting to secure them), I recall reading somewhere, maybe on this forum, about those push button panel securing pins. The hood will see a lot of lift and a very robust pin system is needed there, perhaps more robust than those. And the trailing edge of the hood next to the windshield moves around quite a bit testing the aft pins. Maybe they're okay if you also have a forward hood hinge.

Buttonwillow 7-31-22.jpgI'm getting a lot of milage out of this picture having posted it a few times for various reasons. In it, you can clearly see the hood lifting at probably around 70 mph.

When I trimmed my hood, I used a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel - worked great. Seems like sanding would take forever.

Very little gap is needed between the hood and windshield with the mono wiper. I didn't need to trim anything to make it work, but I did bend the arm to fine tune.

I am using 0.5" hood pins not the smaller quik-latch ones so this will help. These are the same size ones that come with the kit. I am going to completely duct the radiator and seal things off so this will hopefully help with pressure under the hood, but I do see the rear of the hood might be an issue. Something I will have to watch until I get it up to speed.

[blomb11]

Anyone with a newer kit, do your door skins look the same? I have been planning for them to be closed off in the front and not sure why I never realized it sooner until now when I am trying to mount them. The manual shows for the R the front is secured to the side intrusion panels. I want to cut them down to increase the vent behind the front wheels. I am thinking I can close them off with some sheet metal, but annoying since they used to be complete.

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[Bob_n_Cincy]

Anyone with a newer kit, do your door skins look the same?

I don't think the design of the door skins have ever changed. The internal frame changed to accommodate the glass for the coupe. Here is a picture of an early assembled door.

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[RPGs818SNA]

The doors from my kit delivered in March of 2019 look the same in the front.

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[blomb11]

Thanks RPG! They must have made a change in 2018 and removed the front section. Looks like I will be making a block off plate so the air exits the sides and doesn’t build up at the back of the door skin.

[Jetfuel]

If I may suggest that you fabricate a plate to place over where the hinges for the door openings are in the body.
A major source of hot air from the engine bay specially when the fans are on.

Jet

[lance corsi]

Brandon the street cars receive an aluminum blockoff plate for that area. The manual gives you a good starting point to drill your bolt holes. The outer perimeter that contacts the door skin will get a push-on bulb seal.

[driveslikejehu]

My kit was delivered in late 2019 or early 2020. It has the R door ends as shown in the manual. I'm just starting to clearance them for the door hinge mount on the frame and the windshield. I thought I had it rough to remove so much since we are doing R's with windshields. Probably cutting away is easier than added a plate.
door front.jpg

[blomb11]

My kit was delivered in late 2019 or early 2020. It has the R door ends as shown in the manual. I'm just starting to clearance them for the door hinge mount on the frame and the windshield. I thought I had it rough to remove so much since we are doing R's with windshields. Probably cutting away is easier than added a plate.
door front.jpg

Interesting so maybe I got S doors on accident. I have emailed FFR but at this point who knows if they will do anything about it. I was planning to follow Hobby's post #167 since FFR does not make nor sell the door inserts anymore.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...8R-Build/page5

So now I will have to see what FFR says otherwise I will install the aluminum block off plates, cut down the doors, and add opening(s) in the block off plates to create the desired air venting.

[driveslikejehu]

BTW, I like idea of increasing the gap at the front of the door/fender area. To use this to extract air would mean not adding that sorta peanut shaped plate that closes off the fender.
What are you planning to do?

[driveslikejehu]

I went to Hobby's page you mentioned... I looks like the door hinge/windshield mounting structure on his is different from mine. Maybe he modified it? Or am I just seeing a different angle...
other struct.jpgWS structure.jpg

[Hobby Racer]

I went to Hobby's page you mentioned... I looks like the door hinge/windshield mounting structure on his is different from mine. Maybe he modified it? Or am I just seeing a different angle...

I did cut off the section needed to mount the wind shield tabs since I use the R winds screen and not the S wind shield. It looks like you can still cut some / most of the mount off that might be interfering with moving the door in. Trimming back the doors is a much neater and efficient design than the FFR cut out method for venting high pressure air out of the wheel wells.

[driveslikejehu]

Thanks for that clarification. I, and I think Brandon, am/are planning to keep the windshield mount so we can get them street legal. Just means a bit more cutting the door for clearance.

[Hobby Racer]

It looks like you can easily cut out this section marked in red to aid in clearance. That is the part that is for the door hinge.

WS structure.jpg

[blomb11]

FFR finally responded telling me they sent me the wrong door skins and replacements are on the way before I could stop the shipment. So guess now I will have an extra set if I want to redo my work or one breaks. While I was waiting for their response I was able to bond in the sheet metal plate that normal goes over the front of the door frame. I then cut the doors down 2” tapering it to the back to tip it then in. The new gaps behind the front fenders at the front of the doors is about 3.5”.

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The manual has very little information on how the front inner fender well aluminum panels attach to the frame. I saw a couple pictures from mcamera’s thread, but if anyone has some tips or additional pictures to reference that would be awesome . Given my cut down doors I am thinking about using the front rear liner and then cutting a hole in it to match the new in setting doors for ducting.

[driveslikejehu]

I'll post a pic, hopefully by tomorrow, when I cut down the eng cover or something. Cutting is the way to go I think, over sanding it down. Even with really good dust collection; GRP dust is nasty.

[blomb11]

I'll post a pic, hopefully by tomorrow, when I cut down the eng cover or something. Cutting is the way to go I think, over sanding it down. Even with really good dust collection; GRP dust is nasty.

Thanks! I am well aware of the dust haha and it makes a mess for sure! I have been wearing a mask, goggles, and am outside, but I probably should have a respirator.

[Dave 53]

I trimmed my hood 2 years ago, so I don't remember exactly what I did, but it looks like I measured the thickness on the fender then transferred those measurements to the hood, scored a line on the hood and trimmed with a Dremel tool cutting blade.
hood trim.jpg

Mounting the fender near the windshield, I used a 3/4" block of plastic from Tap Plastics. I don't recall the name of the material, but it's like plastic cutting board. Softish, not hard and brittle. I drilled and taped holes into it for the bolts. The 3/4" is needed for alignment with the doors. I recall I did it this way for ease of installation after unsuccessfully struggling to get good alignment using a single bolt. It was easy to mount the block to the chassis, then align the fender to the door and windshield, mark the spot to tap holes into the block for the fender bolts. fender block.jpg

[Dave 53]

I trimmed my hood 2 years ago, so I don't remember exactly what I did, but it looks like I measured the thickness on the fender then transferred those measurements to the hood, scored a line on the hood and trimmed with a Dremel tool cutting blade.
hood trim.jpg

Mounting the fender near the windshield, I used a 3/4" block of plastic from Tap Plastics. I don't recall the name of the material, but it's like plastic cutting board. Softish, not hard and brittle. I drilled and taped holes into it for the bolts. The 3/4" is needed for alignment with the doors. I recall I did it this way for ease of installation after unsuccessfully struggling to get good alignment using a single bolt. It was easy to mount the block to the chassis, then align the fender to the door and windshield, mark the spot to tap holes into the block for the fender bolts. Make a mistake, cut a new block vs filling a misaligned hole drilled into the fender. fender block.jpg

Another spot I used that plastic material: There is a chassis bracket near the headlights. Does the picture make sense? It's "holding up" the fender to the side of and near the top of the headlight bucket. Anything less to distribute the load and you'll get a spider crack in the gel coat (ask me how I know).fender pad.jpg

[blomb11]

Thanks Dave this is super helpful. I was just looking at those mounts behind the headlights and wondering how I had such large gaps. I will take note and maybe use a similar plastic filler material to take up the gaps. This would definitely help distribute the load and make for a better fit.

[blomb11]

We moved over the weekend so I had to tow the car to its new garage. I don’t have a trailer so I rented one from U-Haul. I know these cars are low but dang it was a challenge to get it loaded. I have to removed the front bumper/fenders, front fender supports, and the hood. Plus o had to jack up the rear of my truck to keep the car from high siding on the trailer ramps. I was able to get it there which was great so now I need to figure out a better or quicker way to load the car onto a U-Haul trailer. I don’t have the budget or space to buy one so I am stuck with using a U-Haul trailer. I am going to get it tuned in a couple months so I am going to have to make my own race ramps and come up with a front end quick release strategy.

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I need to figure out how to adjust the K tuned shifter. If anyone has any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated. The throw is really tight. I need to adjust the reverse lockout so hopefully it will allow it to go in reverse….

[driveslikejehu]

I used a U-Haul for my Cayman a few times before I got my trailer. I made some poor-man's race ramps with 2x8's to get the ramps better inline. And yeah, jack up the front with the trailer jack or truck wheels on blocks. Also, I put 2x? in the front wheel area so the front will clear the wheel stop in the trailer. I actually got most of the ideas from a guy on Youtube loading a vette or something. Might help.