Trying to get all the tough stuff with crazy lead times knocked out while I’m waiting for the kit to arrive.
Current paint and interior ideas: I’ll post some links and images
I really enjoy what Singer has done with the Porsche 911 and will be leaning into that a ton for exterior, interior, and engine compartment treatments.
Also love the Ring Brothers restomods.
I am looking at a slightly darker/tone applied to the Gulf Livery we all know and love.
Blackout nearly everything
Still messing around with whether I’ll keep the sunburst wheels or with a set of gray Halibrands (cheaper) powder coated dark grey or black.
To be scheduled:
Paint – have not talked to anyone yet but am inclined to get it on the books as early as possible since the good ones appear to be getting even busier.
Painters that I’m impressed with
Jeff ? (I think Kleiner or Miller)
Ken Pike
I’m looking at a local shop. I’ve seen some roadsters in it, but not sure about their capabilities.
Very open to recommendations, especially those local to Austin and San Antonio.
To be figured out:
Um, everything.
Very thankful for the comprehensive build threads of edwardb and papa.
Tons of great little tips and tricks and tool recommendations.
Should I be looking for an alternative for my spindles? or is the consensus that FF will get it sorted out by then?
Will I be using the factory Shelby GT350 wiring harness, or ordering a crate version from Ford Performance?
Should I look at a Ford Performance center section 3.37 torsion vs the FF option?
Anyone heard of any preemptive measures to help mitigate the dreaded oil consumption death of the GT350 engine?
Front battery box? Breeze? Seems more reasonable than a rear mounted. Maybe not enough room?
Last edited by HotWheelsKid; 07-31-2021 at 12:00 PM.
The Voodoo is special. I'll be following for sure.
Just take into account the vibration phases... There are ways you can measure the frequencies and make sure there's no harmful resonance in your chassis. That's usually one of the top 3 reasons you don't see Voodoo engines in anything else (and partly why there's no Voodoo crate engine available).
1. Vibrations
2. Cost
3. Control Pack (since you have the running pallet you have all the things you need)
Congrats, welcome, and REALLY looking forward to seeing this one!
That's usually one of the top 3 reasons you don't see Voodoo engines in anything else (and partly why there's no Voodoo crate engine available).
1. Vibrations
2. Cost
3. Control Pack (since you have the running pallet you have all the things you need)
Congrats, welcome, and REALLY looking forward to seeing this one!
There's a 4th reason which FFR's Jim Schenck eloquently pointed out to me---"A flat plane V8 without a crossover pipe between the two banks will sound like 2 fart can Hondas going down the road"
Put some casters on that pallet and I think you are officially in go-cart mode. That had to be a fun package to receive.
I walked through SEMA and looked at Ring Brothers and Singers during my build. Great inspiration.
I’ll be following along with your project. Have fun.
-Steve
The Voodoo is special. I'll be following for sure.
Just take into account the vibration phases... There are ways you can measure the frequencies and make sure there's no harmful resonance in your chassis. That's usually one of the top 3 reasons you don't see Voodoo engines in anything else (and partly why there's no Voodoo crate engine available).
1. Vibrations
2. Cost
3. Control Pack (since you have the running pallet you have all the things you need)
Congrats, welcome, and REALLY looking forward to seeing this one!
Logan,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I checked out your build thread. I'm hooked. I'll be reading it all. I really like how in just the first page of your thread addresses so many different ideas I've never seen on other peoples more standard build threads. I'm looking forward to reading more.
In your research, did you find any solutions to the vibration issues? I'm finding about 50/50 on finding people who speculate on its impact vs actual experience and solutions.
There's a 4th reason which FFR's Jim Schenck eloquently pointed out to me---"A flat plane V8 without a crossover pipe between the two banks will sound like 2 fart can Hondas going down the road"
Jeff
Jeff,
Good point. I definitely don't want that to happen. In my research I found some pretty rough solutions like this one.
I'm going to work with Georgie and maybe figure a more elegant and useful solution between the pipes or the headers. I won't be running the cats so I've got a little space free there.
On a side note, I really appreciate your feedback in others people's builds.
Put some casters on that pallet and I think you are officially in go-cart mode. That had to be a fun package to receive.
I walked through SEMA and looked at Ring Brothers and Singers during my build. Great inspiration.
I’ll be following along with your project. Have fun.
-Steve
Hah!, Awesome idea.
My buddy keeps making fun of me for wanting to go out to the barn and sit there and run the engine making "vroom vroom" sounds. But hey, it's only weird if its not cool, and trust me, it's cool.
These are balance weights that are hanging off the cats in case you were not aware. I also like the best of both worlds in my garage.
svassh,
I wasn't aware, thanks for pointing it out. I'll be checking to make sure that they are still attached. Based upon the location in your picture, they should be included in my pallet.
I was reading through your posts, and am wondering a couple of things about my order. Does your research and speculation suggest that if my order is scheduled for completion on nov 11, that it could likely be another 6 mos for the remainder of the parts to arrive?
I was reading through your posts, and am wondering a couple of things about my order. Does your research and speculation suggest that if my order is scheduled for completion on nov 11, that it could likely be another 6 mos for the remainder of the parts to arrive?
That seems to be the current state but mostly out of FF hands. Hopefully the supply will improve by your delivery date. I'm just a naturally impatient person and fell in love with the MK2 with the drop drivers footbox and the Webers.
I was reading through your posts, and am wondering a couple of things about my order. Does your research and speculation suggest that if my order is scheduled for completion on nov 11, that it could likely be another 6 mos for the remainder of the parts to arrive?
Every kit is delivered with some backordered parts. Of the several thousand parts included in a kit, in the past has been 20-30 (maybe) items. Factory Five shipped them as available, and typically closed out the list in a month or two. In the current supply chain and demand environment, the list is longer and is taking longer to close out. They will still ship as available, but some items have been taking longer than usual. Spindles has been one that everyone is talking about now. Hopefully will be resolved soon as parts are arriving from the supplier. But for some was many months waiting. My truck build was delivered in late December and I had all POL (Parts On Order, what Factory Five calls the backorder list) items in just under 6 months. Including spindles. Unless you're a really fast builder, shouldn't hold you up. There's always things to work on. But may cause you to work out of order to the build manual or work around something that's missing. Judging from comments made during Facebook videos, this is the number one issue at Factory Five and I know they're working hard to resolve. But I don't think it's going to be any time soon. It's everywhere across multiple industries and commodities.
Last edited by edwardb; 07-31-2021 at 05:23 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Every kit is delivered with some backordered parts. Of the several thousand parts included in a kit, in the past has been 20-30 (maybe) items. Factory Five shipped them as available, and typically closed out the list in a month or two. In the current supply chain and demand environment, the list is longer and is taking longer to close out. They will still ship as available, but some items have been taking longer than usual. Spindles has been one that everyone is talking about now. Hopefully will be resolved soon as parts are arriving from the supplier. But for some was many months waiting. My truck build was delivered in late December and I had all POL (Parts On Order, what Factory Five calls the backorder list) items in just under 6 months. Including spindles. Unless you're a really fast builder, shouldn't hold you up. There's always things to work on. But may cause you to work out of order to the build manual or work around something that's missing. Judging from comments made during Facebook videos, this is the number one issue at Factory Five and I know they're working hard to resolve. But I don't think it's going to be any time soon. It's everywhere across multiple industries and commodities.
Thank you Paul, your responses are always so calm and measured, and always full of facts and insight. It's greatly appreciated.
The main reason for asking about the timelines, is that I am not opposed to using parts that are not from FF. Based upon your previous builds and others, I decided to go with the Gas-n headers and pipes (although your use of GP headers threw me there for a bit). Knowing about the spindle issues, and wondering about the FF IRS and center section, I really am open to another source IF: 1. the quality is equal or superior, 2. the price is comparable or if it is higher, it is justified by some measure of benefit, or 3. It just seems like a cooler part to me.
I'm super anxious to drive the car, but not at the expense of build quality. I am pretty OCD by nature, but my family and employees needs have scaled that nature back to a level that seems to be reasonably livable by those around me. For me, the aesthetics of tube and wire routing are just as important as depth of paint color. I hope to maintain that level of quality or better throughout the build. I also find that as I get older, the less I force fit things into a timeline, the more satisfied I am with how things eventually turn out.
With all this said, I am very open to alternatives for spindles, IRS components, center section, if better alternatives exist.
Logan,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I checked out your build thread. I'm hooked. I'll be reading it all. I really like how in just the first page of your thread addresses so many different ideas I've never seen on other peoples more standard build threads. I'm looking forward to reading more.
In your research, did you find any solutions to the vibration issues? I'm finding about 50/50 on finding people who speculate on its impact vs actual experience and solutions.
Thanks for the compliment on my thread. It's nowhere near as thorough as some others you'll see here, but I try to touch on the highlights. Definitely off the beaten path though, I don't think I've even opened my build manual twice during my whole build lol.
Solutions to vibrations usually involve specific mass-loading (such as on the exhaust, as svassh posted a photo of), along with normal isolation techniques of rubber/foam/polyurethane/etc. This is a deep hole in physics, but the gist of it is you want to avoid any specific resonance.
As far as the POL/backordered parts go, yes most of the time you can replace or supplement the missing component with an alternative, often of higher quality. Unfortunately, the spindles are among the few you cannot find anywhere else. Factory Five designed the new spindles in house, and they have them manufactured to their specs. They're really the culmination of learning what shortcomings the Mustang donor spindles always had. So in their design, SAI has been corrected, better ball joint attachment, geometry improvement, reduction in unique part numbers (same spindles used on multiple vehicles now). Hopefully by the time you need them, the supply will be there and you won't be left waiting, and from what I've seen you should be in a better position looking forward 6-10 months than the unlucky builders of the last 6-10 months. Patience is key, there will be plenty of other things to spend your OCD allotment on.
Thank you Paul, your responses are always so calm and measured, and always full of facts and insight. It's greatly appreciated.
The main reason for asking about the timelines, is that I am not opposed to using parts that are not from FF. Based upon your previous builds and others, I decided to go with the Gas-n headers and pipes (although your use of GP headers threw me there for a bit). Knowing about the spindle issues, and wondering about the FF IRS and center section, I really am open to another source IF: 1. the quality is equal or superior, 2. the price is comparable or if it is higher, it is justified by some measure of benefit, or 3. It just seems like a cooler part to me.
I'm super anxious to drive the car, but not at the expense of build quality. I am pretty OCD by nature, but my family and employees needs have scaled that nature back to a level that seems to be reasonably livable by those around me. For me, the aesthetics of tube and wire routing are just as important as depth of paint color. I hope to maintain that level of quality or better throughout the build. I also find that as I get older, the less I force fit things into a timeline, the more satisfied I am with how things eventually turn out.
With all this said, I am very open to alternatives for spindles, IRS components, center section, if better alternatives exist.
Logan answered on the spindles. As he said -- they're proprietary and significantly better than any alternative, e.g. donor. Don't compromise your build with anything less IMO. For the IRS, need to separate things a bit. The center section and knuckles/hubs are stock Ford Mustang items. Factory Five offers them for sale. But they're catalog items you can buy yourself if you want. Many go to salvage for the center section. Lots of choices and before you turn your nose up at that, they are very robust and if from a good donor very adequate. Almost mandatory if you want something other than the Ford Performance 3.55 ratio with clutch style posi. The rest of the IRS components (UCAs, LCAs, toe arms, CV axles) are unique to Factory Five and other than the CV axles, made in house.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Logan answered on the spindles. As he said -- they're proprietary and significantly better than any alternative, e.g. donor. Don't compromise your build with anything less IMO. For the IRS, need to separate things a bit. The center section and knuckles/hubs are stock Ford Mustang items. Factory Five offers them for sale. But they're catalog items you can buy yourself if you want. Many go to salvage for the center section. Lots of choices and before you turn your nose up at that, they are very robust and if from a good donor very adequate. Almost mandatory if you want something other than the Ford Performance 3.55 ratio with clutch style posi. The rest of the IRS components (UCAs, LCAs, toe arms, CV axles) are unique to Factory Five and other than the CV axles, made in house.
Very good. Thank you everyone. I truly appreciate everyone’s input.
I’m definitely not opposed to donor parts (my engine pallet is 7’x6’x3’ proof of that). Sounds like the FF spindles are THE way to go.
It was 5 months for me on spindles. It was also my last POL item. I’m moving pretty quickly through my build and I never ran out of things to do. Reach out to the board if you get stuck. You will get plenty of great advice.
Welcome and looking forward to your build
Last edited by Blitzboy54; 07-31-2021 at 10:02 PM.
MK4 #10008 - Ordered 10/06/20, Delivered 03/03/21, First Start 7/22/21, First Go Kart 7/24/21
Paint by Metal Morphous 5/14/22, Legally registered 6/8/22, Graduated 7/20/22
Build Thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...been-delivered
Complete Kit, Ford 306, Sniper/Dual Sync, T5, Hydraulic clutch
No disadvantages that I can think of. Mounting the cooler will take some minor engineering on your part, if you want to keep it that is. Most guys will say you really don't need a diff cooler anyway, so save the hassle and added weight and eliminate it. The FFR will be 1,000+ pounds lighter than the GT350 and that cooler isn't really needed.
That final drive axle ratio is fine, it's what I have in my Gen3 Coupe-R with Gen3 Coyote (built and tuned to rev to 8,400 rpm). Yours will be basically the same setup (pending transmission ratios), but obviously it works well in the GT350, and your tire diameters will be about the same (25 to 26" OD).
I have a gearing spreadsheet with dozens of sports cars in tables and graphed...taking into account power to weight ratios, tire diameter, transmission, final drive, redline, the whole nine yards. I can plug in all your data if you want to see the results. Your biggest difference is using the 3160 trans. After building my car, the theoretical info from the spreadsheet was within 1% of recorded data. I attribute the last 1% to things like tire swell (OD increase) at speed, and other extremely small variables. Which I could take into account, but that would just be me being picky
Love those ready to run motors on a pallet, wouldn't mind having one in the garage just for fun .
Anxious to see your build with the 5.2 and Tremec 3160. I love that 5.2 so much its really the only reason I keep my GT350R the cold start is so awesome. Maybe I need to build a Coupe with a 5.2 if I ever sell the GT350R.
Love those ready to run motors on a pallet, wouldn't mind having one in the garage just for fun .
Anxious to see your build with the 5.2 and Tremec 3160. I love that 5.2 so much its really the only reason I keep my GT350R the cold start is so awesome. Maybe I need to build a Coupe with a 5.2 if I ever sell the GT350R.
no doubt. Its super cool to look at!. Only disadvantage is the size. It's a monster pallet. Currently its sitting on (filling up) a 12' tandem axle trailer. I'm still liking Straversi's idea of wheels and it's a go-kart.
but obviously it works well in the GT350, and your tire diameters will be about the same (25 to 26" OD).
This is the statement that keeps me indecisive. I am unable to account for the lower weight of the car to determine if the 3.73 will be too much. thoughts? If I had to put a percentage to it, I'd have to say the car will be 90%street/10%track.
I agree the cooler probably isn't really necessary, um, but much of this build isn't really necessary either. I kinda like the "cool" factor of putting it in.
Last edited by HotWheelsKid; 08-11-2021 at 03:55 PM.
This is the statement that keeps me indecisive. I am unable to account for the lower weight of the car to determine if the 3.73 will be too much. thoughts? If I had to put a percentage to it, I'd have to say the car will be 90%street/10%track.
I agree the cooler probably isn't really necessary, um, but much of this build isn't really necessary either. I kinda like the "cool" factor of putting it in.
If you're shifting before 4500 RPM with the Voodoo you shifted too soon even on the street. Its the exact same setup in every GT350/R on the street today you'll be fine weight even much lower won't be a problem. Will you get to shift speed/rpm sooner yes but the Tremec 3160 is geared perfectly for it.
As for the cooler, if it fits put it in but I wouldn't go thru any major engineering gymnastics if it doesn't. On the GT350/R there are scoops under the car to direct air to the transmission and rear cooler. Without them I'm not sure how much cooling they would accomplish on the street. Happy to take any pictures you need of anything setup in its native format.
Here is an example of the gear spread for your build. It's the OEM driveline of the GT350. Tremec 3160 transmission, 3.73 final drive, and 8,250 redline. I chose 25.7" for the tire OD, which should be reasonably close regardless of what specific tire you run. Your car is the blue line, and the orange line is my Coupe-R (specs at the top). The speeds per gear are highlighted green. Obviously the graph is displaying speed per gear at redline, not normal street cruising rpm shift points, but you can interpolate. Or if you want to do a deep dive into this tech, send me a PM. I'll let you get back to your build thread after this. Personally, I think your driveline setup is just fine, and can't wait for you to get building!
And just for fun... here's a screenshot of a larger sample size. And there are plenty more...
Here is an example of the gear spread for your build. It's the OEM driveline of the GT350. Tremec 3160 transmission, 3.73 final drive, and 8,250 redline.
Holy Crap! That's some great charting. We can move this over to pm'ing if you'd prefer, but I'm super curious what the plotting looks like with the 3.55's?
Thank you for showing an interest and working through all of that. Ultimately, it's when the rubber hits the road that makes all the difference, but this IS fun till the building begins.
As for the cooler, if it fits put it in but I wouldn't go thru any major engineering gymnastics if it doesn't. On the GT350/R there are scoops under the car to direct air to the transmission and rear cooler. Without them I'm not sure how much cooling they would accomplish on the street. Happy to take any pictures you need of anything setup in its native format.
Thanks svassh!
There's definitely an element of trying things that haven't really been done, or done too often, for this build. I really wanted to try to use the OEM gt350 wheels (19"), but I'm pretty sure the front wheel width (10.5") and offset (30mm) just won't work. But if they did, or someone knew how they could, then I would also opt to use the 15" rotor Brembos from the GT350 as well. Again, why not? unless of course, it just won't fit.
This was one of the license plate ideas I was trying out. It's available, and I really liked the double meaning with the gt350 and the FFR. Was even thinking about doing up some side emblems with the ff350r logo. Ultimately, I wanted to showcase the voodoo more than anything.
Just to weigh in on the diff question. Some/most of which has already been discussed. I have a 3.73 Torsen in my Gen 3 Coupe with a Gen 3 Coyote and T-56 trans. 3000+ miles so have some experience with it.
Your question about the diff has three parts. (1) Cooler? Not needed IMO for your planned driving. Cool factor? I guess. But you've got a lot going on already. I'd save your energy and creativity for other stuff. (2) Ratio? I did exactly what Logan is showing (although not quite as sophisticated...) looking at different calculations and also comparing to combinations I'd had in the past. The T-56/3.73 combination came out as very similar to the TKO/3.55 combination I had in my former Roadster. Which I was very happy with. So that closed the deal for me. In actual use, I like it a lot. I suspect it would be a good ratio for yours as well. But do your homework. (3) Torsen? My driving is 99% street cruising and admittedly I don't push it real hard. But I'm really pleased with it. I feel like it has better straight ahead stability. I don't get the rear wiggle like I did with the standard clutch packs when the rear tires break loose. The only downside of the Torsen in my experience is it is a little noisy. I can hear it a bit when the drivetrain loads and unloads. Not a big deal and amplified some because of the open hatch area in the Coupe. The Mustang guys complain sometimes too about the extra noise it makes.
Side note -- I have to grin just a bit at the 8,250 redline. And making any decisions about your build based on what you see at that RPM. On the street, you're not going to see that RPM very often. 1st gear maybe. 2nd will be wildly illegal in all 50 states. And it just goes up from there. I had to do a couple WOT hits with my Gen 3 Coyote for the Lund Racing tune. They wanted me to do it in 3rd. I said only in 2nd. Each time it was approaching 8,000 RPM and speed was scrolling past 90 mph and up. Glad when that was done and no blinking lights behind me. Haven't been close to the redline since. Cool knowing the engine revs like that. But actual use would be mainly on the track.
Last edited by edwardb; 08-12-2021 at 05:25 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
I didnt see your planned use posted, is it mostly street? The diff cooling need depends on your use for sure, definitely will not be needed for full street driving. The GT350 very much needs it (and a better one) for track use, but that is caused by a few factors that are less on the roadster. The GT350 weight is a major factor, all elements are tucked up into the body to improve underbody airflow which means less air movement to cool the diff, and the exhaust runs right next to the diff, sticky tires. In the roadster you will have stick tires (hopefully) and you could have reduced underbody airflow depending on the build choices you make, but you wont have the weight or the exhaust right next to it.
Holy Crap! That's some great charting. We can move this over to pm'ing if you'd prefer, but I'm super curious what the plotting looks like with the 3.55's?
Since you asked, here is your current 3.73 setup in orange, and the proposed 3.55 setup in blue:
Today was finally the day. Ended up a week earlier than anticipated. Fortunately my wife and son handled it well!
Super excited, just wished I could have been there. I’m freezing up in flint at build school. Build school is 100% worth it. Couldn’t be happier about choosing to come.
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Originally Posted by Salty Chief 35
