Can you do a Coupe for 30k?

[911NeverForget]

Hi guys and gals. I've been reading on the forums here quite a bit here and I've been interested in Factory Five cars for a long time now. I'll get strait down to business here with my question. I need to pick your brains a little here so bare with me.

I want to know if I can build a decent Type 65 for 30 grand or less (i.e. do people usually go over 30 grand for a build). I set an "auto-hobby" budget right there and I don't want to exceed that level if I can avoid it so I want to get a budget laid out for parts. I was looking at the Complete Kit as it looked like it would speed the process up.
I was looking at the Ford 302 engine as I understand that gives decent performance (300ish HP) for a pretty good price and it looked like I can get a T-5 transmission for about $1000? Then I've not sure which rear end to use, but I imagine something in the middle price range would work. Most build threads I see are pushing 400 HP, which looks like happy number, but with performance comes the price tag.

I see a lot of people talking about fitment issues with the 351W engine so I figured the 302 was the way to go in that area. Also, what are stacks? I read a lot about fitment issue with those.

All told I'd like to have a coupe I could drive on the street on weekends and take to the track occasionally. Having done some previous track time I want to put my money into suspension and brakes (and reliability) and save power for afterwards.

A bit about me. I have been tracking BMW's/hobby/enthusiast for a few years now as they are cheap cars to get into a learn on. I've never built a car! I should say that. But I have swapped engines, rear-ends, transmissions, ect. I lack experience in cosmetic/painting/bodywork areas. I also don't have much experience with Ford engines. I am used to dual-overhead cams and fuel injection as the norm for my automotive experience. I have worked on carbs before so I know them fairly well, but I figured I would stick with something fuel injected if possible. I've read a lot that American V8's are pretty responsive to power modifications like headers, cams, cold air intakes, ect.

Basically I want to build something that I can enjoy building and maintaining first off. Then I would like to drive it on weekends or at the track once in a while. (I've read that to track these cars you need to re-enforce the chassis to improve rigidity)

I also have a stupid question. I have a 7.4L 454 engine out of a Chevy pickup that I own. This 454 is geared completely toward torque and I assume it would not work well in a sports car. Not to mention the weight. But seeing as I have the compete truck I had to ask...

I have a long time to put this build together as I wouldn't be starting until I come home from a deployment in Feb 2015. I figure I need to see what I can do on a budget. These cars look beautiful and I have nothing but respect for the people with the technical know how and drive to compete such interesting projects.

[Gordon Levy]

454 is not a good idea.
You might be able to do it for $30K if you do everything yourself and not farm anything out. You will also need to wheel and deal on some stuff.

[John Dol]

If you want to build it for $30K you can, but build from a donor car and stay away from this forum. This will have to be your one and only post so hi and goodbye. LOL
Seriously though if you stay to a stock build and a donor you will be able to build for that.
My goal was also to build a low cost ride, however I've changed course as I went along. My car is build with a lot more items but a t a lower cost because I've been able to be patient in obtaining the parts.

Hope that helps.

Good luck and come home safe.

John

[911NeverForget]

My plan was to find a wrecked late 80's mustang. I'm trying to get a price in line for one of those but it looks like it varies anywhere from 2k-8k. That being said I suppose I could do my own engine rebuild. I just rebuild an inline 6, but the problem is that, at least with BMW engines, it's actually cheaper to buy a used engine than replace rods and pistons. I could gamble and buy a 302 with a blown head and swap it my self, but I am one of those "better do it while your in there" type people and I usually want to replace rods and bearings and chains ect. I don't know I'll have to look around and see what I come up with. The biggest variable for me will be finding a mustang that is in good condition. I think best would be to find something that got mild damage all around and is totaled out.

[QSL]

My budget on the roadster was 30k. That was why my wife let me build it. However in the end it was over 60k. The thing is... When you start building, you realize your building your dream car and you start putting more expensive components in. I am weak and have ZERO willpower either.

On the coupe... Paint and body work will put you 10k in the hole alone. You really will need to do a lot on your own to stay under 30.

[911NeverForget]

Yeah it seems to me the roadster would be a cheaper option to build myself just because there are more of them and therefor more options. I really want to put off painting on either car for quite some time. I would simply clear coat or primer the surface. Actually my dad did auto-body for about 30 years. He's in his mid-60's now, but I bet I can talk him into helping me out with finishing touches. He was a diesel mechanic for about 30 years, but he started in Grand National Stock car racing in like 1970. I was going to have him do any welding I needed for the job anyway, its just that he doesn't have a shop anymore so that's the issue.

[STLMARSHALL]

I had mine done (sans bodywork) and street legal for $28,000. I am in the low 30's now because of the many changes I have made for racing but still pretty cheap. I have about $1,500 in the bodywork and paint materials. For a budget build just stick with a 302/T5 combo and start collecting used parts early. That is how I was able to finish it for $28,000.

[911NeverForget]

Ah I see you went with an LS1. That looked like the best bang for the buck, but how difficult was that to mount into the car? I was thinking of getting a wrecked donor, but selling the engine out of that and then getting a crate 302. I guess if I get up to 32 grand it's ok... Oh no it's started already!

[David Hodgkins]

IF you look at QSL's avatar you will see stacks on top on his engine. I've just started a new build and will be going this route. MAJOR $$$$$.

One thing to consider is that the car takes a while to build. You can spread purchases over the length of the build and therefore build a higher quality build over time.

I noticed you said deployment. Thank you for your service!

[Timb]

If you shop well and find a cheap donor no problem. I'm currently at $24,000 and getting ready for paint but I used an 02 donor I paid $1000 for and bought other parts like my wheels when I found a good deal on them. Check out my blog for details.

[68GT500MAN]

Your target budget is doable if you do all of the work yourself and shop around for deals. Like Mike (QSL) said, if you want a top notch paint job plan on around 10K for a coupe. I built my first roadster from a donor and found great deals here on the forum for the wheels/tires and was able to keep it below 30K with a Jeff Miller paint job. Thanks for your service too.
Doug

[tirod]

Buying new will put you over budget. A clean used motor/trans will save a bundle of money, so will a rear end.

The issues for handling will take up more budget, but they are more important than an incremental increase in power. The SAI on the front spindles, and using correctly proportioned caliper sizes front and rear will be where a lot of emphasis should go. That is what the handling is all about - it does no good to use adapted spindles and have high steering effort when F5 sells the right ones up front - albeit at the extra cost. Brakes, the same, don't use tiny rear calipers and then choke down the fronts to get balance. The calipers front and rear need nearly the same capacity and size to be correctly proportioned for a car with a 49/51 front/rear split. Donor brakes aren't even optimal as they are set up for 60+/40-.

That typically means some other method of arranging a parking brake, which by many state standards is all it is. Something to hold the car on a specified grade without slipping. It's not an "emergency" brake and hasn't been since split master cylinders were introduced in 1968. Using a dual master setup with balance bar adjuster will fine tune the brake performance, adding a spot caliper to park is about all that is needed.

That kind of thing tends to take away from the price of a crate motor and new trans, but frankly, the extra hp and all new parts aren't going to do as much for all the extra money. You can upgrade the heads, cam, intake, etc later.

Paint is another major cost IF you follow industry standards. That is a matter of what the car is for - track, weekend, show? Expensive paint won't make a car faster if the SAI and brakes aren't up to speed. All it would do is make it look fast sitting still. There are alternatives to using $400 a gallon paint and then spraying 40% of it into the air. Avoid paying somebody else to paint it to show car standards, the $30k goal then has some chance.

Lots of the accessories then pile on, it's all too easy to let yourself upgrade when alternatives abound. What gets engaged is the male ego and being better than the other guy. Much of that is based on having a better looking car, when the reality of the Cobra legend was that they were better racing cars. Functional superiority was first, some of the "looks" were sponsored by Ford for publicity and had nothing to do with any documentable improvement in performance.

Were Halibrands better than wire wheels, yes. Can you find American made track rims for 1/2 the price of imported Chinese lookalikes, yes. Budget win. Are "authentic" Cobra valve covers really cool looking, yes. Factory covers do the job just as well. Budget win. Is a high performance ignition system going to add hp to a engine turning factory stock rpms? No. It's been discussed over and over in hobby level track forums on the net that factory ignition will do the job well. The bright red distributors seen on a lot of "built" cars aren't all that - the parts are coming from China now, their recent track record is spotty. Avoid them, budget win. Same for billet pulleys.

The outside exhaust? Arguable. It's '60's race tech, the fast cars use undercar exhaust properly tuned and exiting behind the valance to get maximum potential out of the system. It's another budget eater, but a good set of headers will cost $400 minimum plus another $250 to plumb them, and the cross pipe at the trans mount is a hassle. Another issue is whether you need door bars to compete, which is really just an incremental add to the existing difficulty getting into the car. Front bracing from windshield to suspension also helps stiffen the front, too. Another budget eater, but, as said, if you do the work the extra bracing, welding, etc. are labor cost free, which is always a substantial part of the fees. Just like paint.

Research makes your budget dollar go further, rather than backtracking because you discovered the part that was getting a lot of publicity doesn't actually meet the demands of an endurance racing car that turns both directions. That nets you little gems like reversing the motor mounts to push the engine forward an 1 1/2" to make the balance better, and fit a larger block easier. Putting the battery up front, not in the trunk where it's has more voltage drop due to the cable length and is nearly non serviceable. And, dropping the steering column to a better height to fit driving more ergonomically. That stuff is nearly free and has an actual affect on making the car better.

$30K is perfectly doable if the focus is on exactly what you get for your money in terms of documented improvement. Things like factory stock rockers vs Imported Chinese rockers with a history of spitting needles into the oil pump abound here. Choose the right parts the first time instead of letting the speed catalogs make your decisions. If you see a need for a specific part, and you find it hard to locate, consider that you might be on the right track to performance. The issue is that if it's popular, then, it may simply be something that is made to sell because it does. Revenue. Not actual performance. And those parts, IMHO, are largely filling up the For Sale forums exactly for that reason.

Not that I have a strong opinion about it or anything. YMMV.

[edwardb]

I'll jump in and provide some comments from my FFR experience over the past 5 years with one Roadster built and another now 50-60% done. I will agree with the others that say it's possible to build the Coupe for the amount you suggested. But it is on the lower end of what most experience for both Coupes and Roadsters. My thoughts/recommendations are the following:

- Stick with a stock build. As has been pointed out, this forum (and the other @ FFCars.com) are a lot about changes and modifications. Without debating the merit of any, it would be easy to get the impression that some/all are "required." Generally, not the case. They are optional and for some of us represent an enjoyable aspect of this hobby. But they add cost and complexity. A "by the book" FFR build is a good solid car and will be the most economical. Every time you change something (brakes, battery, whatever) a bunch of parts FFR provided (and you paid for) may no longer be usable.

- Stick with the recommended engines. In the case of the Coupe, it's Ford small blocks (289, 302, 351, 392 etc.). This will have the fewest unintended consequences, all of which often lead to complication, delays, and added cost. These engines are widely available from mild to wild, are easy to work on, and many performance parts are available and relatively economical compared to some other engine choices. You can start simple (and cheap) and upgrade down the road as the desire and budget allows.

- A T-5 is a good, solid, and economical choice for your build. Look specifically for a "Z" or "world class" version. They have slightly better parts and will handle a little more power and shouldn't be much more expensive if you're not buying new. If you keep the engine relatively mild (350 - 400 flywheel horsepower) and don't run drag slicks or whatever, that transmission choice should be fine.

- A stack induction setup is not in your budget range. They are expensive to buy and potentially expensive to set up. The most economical setup is going to be the donor Mustang fuel injection or a carb. Anything else, whether stacks or aftermarket fuel injection, will probably break your budget. Something else that can be changed down the road if you really want to.

- As pointed out, paint is a major topic. For your budget, you will not get a show paint job. In fact, unless you can do it yourself of have someone that works for little/nothing, is going to be potential budget buster. High end paint jobs are expensive anyway, and the Coupe is a more challenging job. Much more than the Roadster. Keep in mind when we're talking about paint it's really the overall subject of body work, fitting, hinging, filling, glass, etc. in addition to the actual paint application. So don't expect for your budget you're going to challenge too many show car entrants. In the end it depends on what you want. If this is OK, then you're good. If you're expecting a show finish for your budget, then you need a reality check. Many of us want and really like a show finish. OK, the originals were pretty rough in comparison because they were dedicated racing machines. But this is a hobby we do for great fun and enjoyment, and we can do what we like and there's nothing wrong with that. But it does come with a price. (Editorial comment: Go to any decent car show and every one far exceeds the original or what came off the factory floor. It's what hobbyist's do.)

- While I don't have personal experience, I know several Coupe owners. Plus I don't know where you plan to drive it. But everyone I've talked to says the Couple has to have AC otherwise is just very uncomfortable in most driving conditions. If a dedicated track car, probably not. But if you plan to use it on the street, AC should be part of your budget and build plan.

- I agree with the several comments that you're going to need to be a good shopper and really do your homework. There are deals out there for nearly every part in the build. But you have to put in the time to find and haggle, and then be prepared for some amount of rehab. (the parts, not you)

- I'm a little surprised about your comment "...you need to re-enforce the chassis to improve rigidity." There may be some specific competition or track rules regarding roll cages, etc. that need to be addressed. I personally have zero experience with that. But the actual rigidity of the chassis is one of the hallmarks of the FFR design. Their chassis design is amazingly rigid. I can't imagine needing more. I can jack my Roadsters up from anywhere on the side (front, back, middle, whatever) and the entire side goes up perfectly flat and straight. There is zero flex. You can also really feel how stiff it is when you drive it. Just rock solid. You may want to check your sources on that one. I'm not sure anything is required. On related note, you mention welding. If you build the kit stock from FFR, no welding is required. Just FYI.

- Finally, I strongly recommend you spec your kit with the newer FFR designed spindles. Don't use donor spindles. This is probably one of the single best upgrades FFR has done with their cars. It has all the mods that guys have worked hard over the years to integrate into donor spindles, including reduced bump steer, SAI, etc. and doesn't require the spindle adapter to add the upper ball joint. May add slightly to the cost, but absolutely worth it IMO.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[loeffler1]

I too had the impression I could build for $30,000 to $35,000. I'm at $65k and climbing and I don't have an extreme HP engine, maybe 325 or so. However, I'm almost done. Unless you do everything yourself and I mean everything, you might just scrape by. I think it is impossible to meet that figure as there is always that decision about this extra or that extra, there are so many temptations especially these guys love to entice you and spend your money for you, LOL. As said before, stay away from both forums. That was a portion of my downfall. Also said by David, the costs are spread out over time and in my case 5 years which does make things slightly more palatable. You mentioned bodywork and paint was not your forte, better learn as this is the largest portion of the build. My body guy charges $40/hour which is a bargain and my total body/paint bill was slightly under $15k. In reality I think a budget build is more in the range of $40k. JMO

[Stroked65Coupe]

I am at 26,000 and getting ready for paint. Like the other folks said, if you get creative with sourcing parts and do the work yourself you can get close to your target cost. Mine is setup as a competition coupe with the added side bars, fuel cell, etc. I plan on a combination of track and street and I have done everything myself.

[jkrueger]

On the paint budget. Having done the body work and paint on two of these cars, I would say doing it yourself is a good option. I had never done any bodywork and my Dad had done some over the years. You say your Dad has been in the body work business for 30 years... That is all the experience you need , plus there is a bunch of info on the two forums about doing the body work. That is where I learned from. I spent a lot of time on my roadster's body and it came out great even though I made a ton of work for myself. the only thing I didn't do was the buffing, though I tried. That car came out with a mirror finish (check out my photo albums at 25tires.com). The coupe I built was a mostly track car so I didn't wet sand and buff it, but I was still completely happy with my paint job. My home built spray booth wasn't perfect so I ended up with some dust in the paint. But after having it on the track for a year now, I have more paint chips than dust spots.

Our body work and paint costs were less than $1500 each.

JC

[911NeverForget]

As bad as it sounds I was thinking of just plasti-dipping it flat black or white until I can get a real paint job. I live in the auto accident capital of the US and I feel like a few dents and paint chips put you in good favor with the automotive gods so I'm really not worried about paint. I got the trunk of my Z3m roadster painted (from a previous scratch) and rear ended in the same week so I assume that if I get a cherry paint job on a Coupe it'll get keyed the same day..

I did more research on the chassis rigidity and found that the MKIV is very stiff and the coupe is stiffer then that so I'm not worried about that anymore. It came up because my BMW is notorious for being very flexible and when you run coil-over suspension you have to substantially re-enforce the chassis.

I really have to look into how the body of the car is put together. I watched the FFR video on the MKIV build and it looks like a plastic uni-body is just sent attached to the car. I'm still pretty confused about the body panels though, and the glass work. Do you have to cut the doors and hood out of the mold or do they come separate? I feel comfortable with setting up suspension, brakes, IRS as I have done all that type of work before, but I really have to learn the ins and outs of the Ford drive train. I don't plan on running AC as I never use it, but I will probably install a heater/defroster.

Thanks for the replies. I am starting to get some things worked out in my head about how I can do this and what I need. Do you folks have any good ideas as to where to shop for a wrecked Mustang? craigslist seems pretty hit or miss. And I've never used one of those auction websites before, but they look like they could be the ticket for what I need.

[edwardb]

I really have to look into how the body of the car is put together. I watched the FFR video on the MKIV build and it looks like a plastic uni-body is just sent attached to the car. I'm still pretty confused about the body panels though, and the glass work. Do you have to cut the doors and hood out of the mold or do they come separate?

For all FFR models, the steel tube chassis is welded and completely assembled. Most aluminum panels are temporarily mounted to their chassis location for shipping. Some of the smaller pieces are in the multiple boxes you'll also receive. The body is set in place on the chassis and also attached temporarily. You take it all apart when received, first mount the suspension components, and then start mounting all the panels. Then the wiring, engine and drive train. The body is last and is non-structural. For the fiberglass body, all the parts are cut out (doors, hood, etc.) but oversize so you have to fit everything in place.

This is a Roadster, but maybe helps give a visual:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnJdjMKDC_g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokuC-jzLK8

HTH.

[STLMARSHALL]

Ah I see you went with an LS1. That looked like the best bang for the buck, but how difficult was that to mount into the car? I was thinking of getting a wrecked donor, but selling the engine out of that and then getting a crate 302. I guess if I get up to 32 grand it's ok... Oh no it's started already!

The LS1 is a great option but I wish I had gone that way in the original build. I am currently installing a T56 and having to make some more changes. All these changes cost time and money. I was into the original drivetrain (302 + TKO 500) for about $5,000. My new combo (2003 LS1 + 2002 WS6 T56) ran $5,100. The LS1 has more power and is 50# lighter. The stock LS1 made 350 RWHP....completely stock!

The install is not that hard. The only real challenges were engine mounts and exhaust. Since you have to do engine mounts anyway, you just move the engine forward far enough to keep the same driveshaft length. I don't know all the challenges of the T56 yet, but am about to find out.

[Gordon Levy]

The only issue with the T56 aside from how heavy it is is it's 4" longer than the Tremec or T5.

[911NeverForget]

So for simplicity could you just mount the LS1 to a Ford transmission? Or is there a big advantage to running the T56? Like it can handle the power better or durability.

[STLMARSHALL]

The only issue with the T56 aside from how heavy it is is it's 4" longer than the Tremec or T5.

Gordon the one sitting in my garage is not much heavier or longer. I weighed the entire old setup (trans TKO500, clutch, bellhousing) and then weighed the entire new setup and the difference was just under 9 lbs. Some of it was due to a heavier pressure plate on the TKO and some was that the Quick Time bellhousing on the LS is smaller and lighter.

The TKO is 24.5" and the T56 is 25.75" long. The T56 bellhousing is a little shorter making the total difference less than 1". There are some variants of the T56 that are longer (and probably heavier), but mine is not one of them.

From everything I have read the iron Ford 302 is good up to around 500 HP. The aluminum LS breaks when pushed above 700 HP and the iron LS is good for over 1000 HP.

I have read of the stock T56 being pushed into the 9's by the Camaro drag racing crowd. Not sure if the TKO will take that. The T56 shifts like butter (similar to a T5) and the gearing is a little better for autocross. I also had a problem with getting enough clutch throw due to the larger bellhousing and longer clutch fork required. I probably could have had someone custom make the clutch cam in the pedal box to fix this issue or converted to a hydraulic throwout bearing on the TKO, but I decided to just put the correct trans behind the engine. To be clear I never had these problems when this TKO was installed behind my 302.

Pic of my transmissions:

[skullandbones]

Hi 911NeverForget,

I have made a couple of mistakes that have cost me but for the most part I have been very careful with my MKIII roadster build. I'm on the road in primer and at 27.5K to 28k. Since your basic kit is going to be 3k more than mine was, I would say you are really pushing it to finish a coupe at 30k. If you do it under 35k you should be very happy that you have been that efficient. It should still be a very good quality project. If you don't break the 30k ceiling, throw a big party!!! Good luck,

WEK.

[tirod]

How does it go together? Well, you can download the build manual which includes pictures for $10. I've had mine for a year and it is a great help in answering some questions quickly without scouring the forums. Not that doing that is a waste of time.

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/assembly-manual-2/

[CraigS]

To add a little to Tirod's and Edwardb's thoughts, I would forget the donor build idea. The relevant cars are just too darn old now, especially the wireing. I would substitute getting in w/ the mustang crowd. There are millions of them, hence there are millions of deals if you keep looking. Many of them want to do an upgrade to a 351 or whatever, so there are plenty of 302s available and T5s also. And keep an eye on the larger bucks crowd there too. A friend does early mustang restoration work and got a 70 in that someone had hacked in a 302/T5. The owner, who pays to have his work done, wanted to get back to the original style 351 and 4 speed. The 302/T5 came out and went to another friend building an FFR roadster for $500 for the complete package. Anything you might actually want to use from a donor can be had from a salvage yard one at a time. Also keep an eye on this and the other forums parts for sale lists. Again, lots of upgrades and lots of left over stuff is available. Do a carb car and buy a new harness and you will be glad you did.

[bil1024]

Maybe post your location and you can find someone close to you to check out their coupe!

[tfalk]

I started down the donor route... As I'm just about done stripping the wiring out of the car
to try and save some money, SWMBO decreed there was no way in hell I was putting 15+
year old wiring in a new car... Off to ebay it went and a new "painless" (there's irony if I ever saw it)
wiring harness showed up a few days later... It's those kinds of decisions you need to make
up front if you are going to stay near your budget.

[911NeverForget]

Thanks for the tip about the manual!

Boy I just read about a bunch of people's cars catching fire! One was a blog where the guy had just finished having his roadster painted when it caught fire.

That brings up the point about a good fire suppression system. In the Navy we do extensive amounts of fire fighting training and it's always "get personnel out of harms way, then save the equipment." I read some different posts from some pretty knowledgable people about different fire suppression systems. We use PKP, Halon, AFFF, and regular CO2 for different firefighting scenarios. Next time I am down at base I will check out the electrical cut off systems in our vehicles and try to take some pictures. It's basically a lever that goes to the battery to disconnect the leads from the battery in an electrical fire situation. I think a manual insulated cable running to the battery is ideal because there are fewer things to go wrong. It looks like the main areas catching fire are the fuel rails, which seems like the most likely spot due to pressurized fuel running atop exhaust headers. I would wager a guess that Aqueous Film Forming Foam(AFFF) would be best in the engine bay in a fire suppression system and then also have a manual CO2 fire extinguisher. I think a manual fuel cut-off would be good to have as well just incase a fuel line starts spraying the engine bay. Halon is used in kitchens and mainframe rooms that are fairly air tight so I don't think they'd work well in an engine bay. Basically if you can: cut power, hit the vehicle suppression system, and use the manual CO2 extinguisher for the rest. Just my .02 cents on this very serious issue.

[DownRange762]

Tirod, you wrote, "Front bracing from windshield to suspension also helps stiffen the front, too"

Could you expand a bit on that sentence, as in from what point on the windshield to what point on the suspension you are referring to? thanks

[NukeMMC]

Thanks for the tip about the manual!

Boy I just read about a bunch of people's cars catching fire! One was a blog where the guy had just finished having his roadster painted when it caught fire.

That brings up the point about a good fire suppression system. In the Navy we do extensive amounts of fire fighting training and it's always "get personnel out of harms way, then save the equipment." I read some different posts from some pretty knowledgable people about different fire suppression systems. We use PKP, Halon, AFFF, and regular CO2 for different firefighting scenarios. Next time I am down at base I will check out the electrical cut off systems in our vehicles and try to take some pictures. It's basically a lever that goes to the battery to disconnect the leads from the battery in an electrical fire situation. I think a manual insulated cable running to the battery is ideal because there are fewer things to go wrong. It looks like the main areas catching fire are the fuel rails, which seems like the most likely spot due to pressurized fuel running atop exhaust headers. I would wager a guess that Aqueous Film Forming Foam(AFFF) would be best in the engine bay in a fire suppression system and then also have a manual CO2 fire extinguisher. I think a manual fuel cut-off would be good to have as well just incase a fuel line starts spraying the engine bay. Halon is used in kitchens and mainframe rooms that are fairly air tight so I don't think they'd work well in an engine bay. Basically if you can: cut power, hit the vehicle suppression system, and use the manual CO2 extinguisher for the rest. Just my .02 cents on this very serious issue.

I also spent a couple years, or 20, in the Navy and am a little familiar with the firefighting equipment you're looking at. I would remind you that when deciding on an engine bay remote system, the AFFF May be the best agent for a fuel fire, but the delivery method would be a bear to engineer an install. T he AFFF is foamed by the nozzle and to get a good distribution in the engine bay, you would need at least 2 or 3 of those nozzles in different locations. A more effective and less bulky system would be a PKP arrangement. Having been thru several real-world fires (no fun at all on a submarine) I can assure you that powder dispersed VERY well. The nozzles on remote dry chemical systems are pretty compact and easily located.

A remote battery cutoff is a good idea, just ensure it is 100% reliable.

I am doing an external electric fuel pump for my carb'd engine. You locate those pumps close to the fuel tank to get better suction. A side benefit is that my pump power will be able to be remotely cut off by either the ignition switch or a dash toggle. That pump also only puts out 7#, not 60#+.

[cjcnj01]

I think I spent that amount on tools...