Headlight Thread - Camry lights (old)

[07FIREBLADE]

I've got the same results as you. If they are defective I have the same problem. Hopefully you can get this figured out soon.

[AZPete]

Before I do anything more to the headlights I'll talk to Factory Five and let them figure it out. They are much smarter than I am, at least on car building stuff. I'm going to work on my dash (A/C ducts, louvers, switches, covering, etc.) and come back to headlights later. It would be nice to get this thing on the road and worry about night driving later.

[Harley818]

AZPete,
Did you end up finding out what the issue was?

[AZPete]

Harley, I don't know the resolution yet. I found a Camry on a used car lot and took this photo that I emailed to the FFR tech address in early March with my description of the headlight alignment problem. I haven't heard anything and I have gone ahead with mounting the rest of the body so I haven't followed up by calling them. Has anyone else tried aligning the headlights?

[BuzzSkyline]

Hey, Bob, did the headlight adjustment with the stock units work out for you?

I do not have my headlights installed yet. I plan on using the FFR supplied units.
I searched online and found that there is a screw on the back for vertical adjustment.
I circled it in the attached picture.
Bob

Attachment 39211

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey, Bob, did the headlight adjustment with the stock units work out for you?

Hi Buzz
I have not done any testing since I put them on the car. They are not wired yet.
Maybe I'll work on that this week.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi Buzz
I have not done any testing since I put them on the car. They are not wired yet.
Maybe I'll work on that this week.
Bob

Hey, Bob, did the headlight adjustment with the stock units work out for you?

AZPete just linked to this thread and I just saw this question.

During the last month or so we have been driving the car a lot. With it getting dark at 6PM, a lot of it with the head lights on.

Low Beams: I adjusted the screw on the back to raise the beams as high as possible. Still not high enough. Way to low.
Hi Beams: are about as high as low beams should be but lack the defining line that keep them from shining in on coming traffics eyes.

I might try to retrofit the Camry assemblies with some projectors.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Unive...369822401.html

Bob

[07FIREBLADE]

Bob you have to retrofit the headlights to get any sort of decent cutoff and visual performance. I used the morimoto minis from thereteofitsource.com. I've used them several times and they are a really good quality projector. This is one of the reasons I'm retrofitting to the nose.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob you have to retrofit the headlights to get any sort of decent cutoff and visual performance. I used the morimoto minis from thereteofitsource.com. I've used them several times and they are a really good quality projector. This is one of the reasons I'm retrofitting to the nose.

Hi Fireblade
The https://www.theretrofitsource.com/ looks like a great source.
Which one of the minis did you use?
I a little confused about the new nose comment. Are you going with the new nose so you don't have to retrofit the projectors?
Bob

[07FIREBLADE]

Bob,

Sorry for the confusion. I was quickly posting from my phone and its pretty hard to really articulate what I wanted to say while it was dying. The retrofitsource.com is a great place to get most commonly used projectors for retrofits. There are many reasons why I choose to use the mini H1s over other projectors.

Pros:
-Size
-Optical Performance
-Versatility (hi/low function in one projector)
-Ease of installation
-I've done this retrofit several times, maybe 8-9 times already

Cons:
-Price
-A bit small for the headlight
-The D2S might of been a better option for size available

That was just some of my decisions on what I needed out of my lighting needs for the 818. Looking at this list again I am more confident in my decision to jump ship on the old S/R front and go with the new coupe front. I say this for a number of reasons.

New Front vs Old:
New Front Pros:
- Looks - "hair on fire" for me at least in comparison
- Assembly, less pieces to put together to get headlight functionality 4 vs 5
o This should really be 2pcs vs 5, the new fronts “headlights” drop into the fender and are not sandwiched between a fender and a bumper
- Headlight buckets are an integrated piece of the fender design
- Hella Projector
o - http://www.myhellalights.com/index.p...adlamp-module/
o Seems to be a decent projector, depending on the light output I may still switch to a better performing projector but they look promising.
- Real bumper support integrated into the design.
New Front Cons:
- Cost – getting the top so I’m already hurting… don’t get me started on shipping cost
- Maintenance for the new front lights was not thought of when designing the new headlights. You can’t replace the led side markers and turn signals. They are bolted in place.
- Carbon fiber might not fit – Have 1st gen “carbon fiber” so not really happy here.

Old Front Cons:
- Looks dated with the Camry headlights and cheap
- Hated that I could never get the headlights to function properly without having to resort to a retrofit
- Went through 3 headlight configurations and 2 sets of headlight buckets from FFR to get subpar headlights.
o Fixed by doing a retrofit
- Parts never fit properly from the beginning.
o I had 2 different shapes for my fenders where they meet the windshield
o Windshield frame had 2 different angles cut at the bottom where it meet the fenders.

Simply put I had enough problems with the old front and I was given the option for something nicer that seems to work better. Many of the old issues have been addressed and fixed hopefully, don’t have the front in hand yet. Sorry if this post was a bit long winded and seems a bit of a rant. Its not meant to be, just wanted to be clear and specific.

-Robert

[AZPete]

Robert, thanks for the detailed analysis. Do you know about the adjustability of the headlights in the new front end?

[07FIREBLADE]

I honestly don't know how adjustments will work out on the new front. Hopefully it will like the GTM which I'm almost positive it will. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/42-fact...nt-screws.html is a thread showing adjustment screws like any normal car has to play with the lights.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,

There are many reasons why I choose to use the mini H1s over other projectors.
-The D2S might of been a better option for size available

-Robert

Thanks Robert,
I had decided not to address my headlight issue until my second car was registered.
With this little push from you, I might have to move that up.
Bob

[07FIREBLADE]

No problem Bob,

Got to play with the new headlight projectors today at iWire. We are building a harness for one of the coupe guys. The projector is very stout and great looking product. I really like it only thing it needs is a hid and it would be perfect for my taste. On the other hand though the 4 leds that come with the new front are complete rubbish. The turn signal which is the single inside light makes a slight difference in light output. The 3 sidemarker lights really should be accent lights but they are completely washed out by the projector. They dont produce any sort of light farther than 2ft in front of them. Test were done indoors with surrounding light equivalent to a cloudy mid afternoon.

-Robert

[bbjones121]

The Hellas aren't hid!?!

That means the projector bucket is not designed for an hid bulb!

[STiPWRD]

The Hellas aren't hid!?!

That means the projector bucket is not designed for an hid bulb!

The bulb sockets in my old wrx Morette projectors were interchangeable from halogen to HID, I've ran both types of bulbs. These days you can get an HID kit for under $50.

[Hindsight]

How do retrofit projectors fix the alignment issue?

[bbjones121]

The bulb sockets in my old wrx Morette projectors were interchangeable from halogen to HID, I've ran both types of bulbs. These days you can get an HID kit for under $50.

Unfortunately the buckets of non hid projectors are shaped to optimize halogen bulbs. You can put hids in them for cheap, but you do not get the advantages of a HID designed bucket.

[07FIREBLADE]

I understand they are not hid projectors. Just stating that I want a brighter bulb that will projector more light. I've done a few hour miles of night driving and it sucks being so low. I'm constantly outrunning my light

[bbjones121]

Yeah that sucks! Huge ball drop on FFR part if the new headlights are not HID designed.

[STiPWRD]

I suppose there would be some minor differences in an HID specific reflector but I'm not sure I would notice the difference personally. The light source in both types of bulbs is more-or-less in the same location relative to the base of the bulb, right? The only difference I noticed was that the HID bulbs have that electrode wire running to the top of the bulb, which could obstruct some bit of light. All I know is that there was a noticeable improvement over the halogens even though the projectors may not have been optimized for HIDs.

[Larry J W]

After studying the head light thread I will be reluctantly ordering the new front end. The 818 has been licensed for almost a year. Because the lights are so poor, I have avoided driving at night. The plan was to retrofit the lights with an upgrade. It looks like that is not a practical solution either. The original Camry lights were tilted 10 degrees. The lights on the 818 are level. Therefore the upper cutout is also tilted 10 degrees. The result is a system that is unsafe for me or the oncoming drivers.

With any new design there are going to unexpected surprises. It is amazing how few problems there were. This one is a safety issue that there would have been a mandatory recall. I do believe there could be a liability issue that needs to be considered. Over my career I have designed over 100 million dollars’ worth of machinery. My boss always reminded me if I knew of a potential problem, “how would I testify in court”. Unfortunately there are hungry lawyers out there that can make any one into a negligent fool!

I’ve been a satisfied Factory Five customer since 2002. I just don’t want to see anything bad happen.

Larry

[07FIREBLADE]

How do retrofit projectors fix the alignment issue?

Depends on the retrofit. If you used the morimoto minis I talked about they are mounted through the light bulb socket with a locking jam but. Not ideal but workable for this application. You can thus rotate your projector whichever orientation you want to.

[07FIREBLADE]

After studying the head light thread I will be reluctantly ordering the new front end. The 818 has been licensed for almost a year. Because the lights are so poor, I have avoided driving at night. The plan was to retrofit the lights with an upgrade. It looks like that is not a practical solution either. The original Camry lights were tilted 10 degrees. The lights on the 818 are level. Therefore the upper cutout is also tilted 10 degrees. The result is a system that is unsafe for me or the oncoming drivers.

With any new design there are going to unexpected surprises. It is amazing how few problems there were. This one is a safety issue that there would have been a mandatory recall. I do believe there could be a liability issue that needs to be considered. Over my career I have designed over 100 million dollars’ worth of machinery. My boss always reminded me if I knew of a potential problem, “how would I testify in court”. Unfortunately there are hungry lawyers out there that can make any one into a negligent fool!

I’ve been a satisfied Factory Five customer since 2002. I just don’t want to see anything bad happen.

Larry

This was one of the major hurdles I had to over come to get my car licensed. I was constantly fighting/ waiting for a headlight level and orientation fix and couldn't get my inspections done. That's why I finally did a retrofit and will upgrade to the new front. At least the projectors should be adjustable or easily modified to be adjusted based on the way they mount.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Depends on the retrofit. If you used the morimoto minis I talked about they are mounted through the light bulb socket with a locking jam but. Not ideal but workable for this application. You can thus rotate your projector whichever orientation you want to.

This is the front view of my 818S #22. The camera is a little higher than the headlights.

front.jpg

I have my adjuster screw adjusted as high as possible. The Low Beams are still to low and rotated incorrectly.
I am going to take Fireblades advice and retrofit some projectors and rotate and shim them as necessary to make them right.

Bob

[Harley818]

Depends on the retrofit. If you used the morimoto minis I talked about they are mounted through the light bulb socket with a locking jam but. Not ideal but workable for this application. You can thus rotate your projector whichever orientation you want to.

I see you are going with the new front end.
I am staying with the old one and was wondering if you could provide some advice since you have done the motomori minis multiple times.
If I use the FFR Camry lights, which motomori's would you suggest, and it sounds like we can rotate them per your comment above to solve Petes alignment issue?

thx

[07FIREBLADE]

At this point I can only confirm that the H1s will fit and you might be able to get away with the d2s but I dont know at this point. For the h1s you need to shim the back at least for the headlights I used. I got a little aggressive trimming because I was in a rush. My projectors are for sale if you want them.

[Harley818]

Bob,
Did you have success with the projectors?
I'm just installing some morimoto mini's now and was wondering if you have any advice.
I'm hoping the rotation will work, otherwise I will try shimming the light in the bucket, or tilting the bucket to get them right.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,
Did you have success with the projectors?
I'm just installing some morimoto mini's now and was wondering if you have any advice.
I'm hoping the rotation will work, otherwise I will try shimming the light in the bucket, or tilting the bucket to get them right.

We are mostly focusing on tracking the car this summer. Head lights retrofits are on hold until our second car is up and running.
Bob

[Harley818]

OK, I'll let you know how it works out.

[Harley818]

Ok, I took the FFR Camry lights apart so I could install the projectors I bought from Fireblade. Just find a utube video from TRS showing how to bake and open them. 270 degrees for 7 mins. Works great.
It looks like the only adjustment provided within the lights themselves is to adjust the elevation with the one screw from the back.

From AZPetes pictures in post #33, and Bob's conclusions in post #34,It looks like our lights are rotated slightly from stock Camry orientation when installed per the FFR mounting.
The left beam needs to be rotated clockwise to correct it.
The right beam needs to be rotated counter-clockwise to correct it.

As Pete also posted later, when he measured with a level, it seems the Camry installation has each of the lights rotated in towards the center of the car for both sides. This is why when we mount our lights per FFR, the left is mounted slightly CCW, and the right is mounted CW from the Camry stock location. Thus to correct, they need to be rotated as Bob says.

I am hoping that once I install the projectors, I can also rotate the projector to get a flat profile, then I can adjust using the adjustment to get the right elevation.
If I still need more elevation because the lights are too low, I will try to shim the headlamps in the buckets. I think there is enough room but I may need to add an adjuster screw to the bucket to make it easier to adjust.

Here's hoping it works out.......

In the meantime, here are some pics of the internals if you are wondering how its set up.
If I really wanted, I could add a lateral adjustment by adding a screw adjustment to one of the ball sockets that hold the light in place.

IMG_1559.JPGIMG_1560.JPGIMG_1561.JPG
In the first picture you can see the two white ball joints, and the adjustment screw near the bottom.

IMG_1575.JPG
a close up of the fixed ball joint that connects to the reflector. You could drill through the back and put a screw adjustable ball joint on this if you wanted lateral adjustment.

Here are the projectors going into the low beam position. Morimoto Mini's
IMG_1568.JPGIMG_1569.JPG

I'll post more pics as I go. Have to wait for the Halo's, mounting washers and sealing glue from TRS.

[07FIREBLADE]

You are 100% correct. I didn't take any pics of when I did my install but your on the right track. You can rotate the projectors no problem to get a horizontal cut off. Depending on your particular fitment of the physical headlight in the fender bucket assembly you may have to shim them. For me my driver side was good and my passenger side got shimmed. I did it physically at the projector though and not the headlight housing.

[Harley818]

You are 100% correct. I didn't take any pics of when I did my install but your on the right track. You can rotate the projectors no problem to get a horizontal cut off. Depending on your particular fitment of the physical headlight in the fender bucket assembly you may have to shim them. For me my driver side was good and my passenger side got shimmed. I did it physically at the projector though and not the headlight housing.

OK, thanks Robert. I didn't think of that but that gives me additional flexibility.
I'm planning to use the projectors and the normal high beams so I'd like to keep the whole assembly more or less adjusted the same.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Harley,
Thanks for posting this.
With my unmodified headlights, I used the adjusting screw to raise the beam as high as possible. That wasn't enough. Can you go with a longer adjustment screw?
Thanks
Bob

[Hindsight]

Harley, SUPER helpful thank you! I am very interested to see how you modify these to make them adjustable, and what the outcome is.

Seems like it's going to be a bit of challenge to aim them to a base point while off the car. Is the reflector you mount them to pretty stout? IE are the projectors going to bounce a little bit when going over bumps or will they be rock solid?

[Harley818]

Harley,
Thanks for posting this.
With my unmodified headlights, I used the adjusting screw to raise the beam as high as possible. That wasn't enough. Can you go with a longer adjustment screw?
Thanks
Bob

Hi Bob,
No. I was watching the adjustment as I adjusted up and down. At both extremes when the torque on the bolt got high, the headlight reflector was touching the top or bottom of the housing.
At that point, you would need to shim the bucket.

[Harley818]

Harley, SUPER helpful thank you! I am very interested to see how you modify these to make them adjustable, and what the outcome is.

Seems like it's going to be a bit of challenge to aim them to a base point while off the car. Is the reflector you mount them to pretty stout? IE are the projectors going to bounce a little bit when going over bumps or will they be rock solid?

The reflector is pretty solid in the housing, and the nut holding the projector in holds it pretty solid. I don't think it will bounce much.
It seems like the 818 front end will need a bit more support though.
I'm thinking I'll add a bit more support between the front fender and supporting steel.
Overall its going to be an iterative process....as most of the adjustment is not accessible when everything is mounted.
So I'll have to take it apart, adjust, remount...etc.

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the additional info. I ordered the same projectors today so I'll be following in your footsteps. I feel this is a pretty important safety consideration so it's high up on my to-do list.

[07FIREBLADE]

For people with the old front end that decided to go this route it's best to have your inner fender liner removed when doing the adjustment. The best way to get your horizontal adjustment is to do this prior to reinstalling the headlight lenses. Throw the lamps back into the headlight buckets and bolt your fenders down into place. And the assembly should be bolted down to. So essentially it won't move with the projector fairly tight but not cranked you can slightly rotate the projector housing in the reflector bowls. You can do this in your garage a few feet away from a clean wall. Mark the wall with tape and measure the bright spots with a tape measure. Try to center both projector orientations as best as possible. A second set of hands comes in handy here if your careful turn the lights off for a bit or put some gloves on crawl under the car and tighten up the locking ring for the projectors. Done. Your horizontal is fixed and shouldn't move. Remove the headlights and carefully install the lenses after installing the lenses and the glue has cooled enough install the lamps again and repeat this time using the adjustment screw to get the vertical high adjustment down. A lot of the vertical adjustment is effected by your overall headlight fitment in the bumper. This is where I spent most of the time and decided to shim my passenger side projector instead of the assembly. Nothing on this car is symmetrical and this was the easiest solution without adding hours and hours of work later down the road.

[Hindsight]

Great advice, thank you!