Srobinsonx2 Bodywork

[srobinsonx2]

I found this online at www.woodessence.com.

"Turbine HVLP Spray systems such as Kremlin/Apollo, Fuji and others typically do not benefit from the venturi effect to create a vacuum that will draw fluid from the collapsible liner. These systems often require a pressurized cup to force fluid to the spray nozzle. 3M offers H/O Pressurized Cups for these systems and other applications where pressure feed is helpful.

H/O Pressure Cups are available only in the Mini or the Large size and are fabricated from rigid plastic and include a full coverage lid/collar assembly. An integrated pressure relief valve is built into these cups and they include a rubber pressure tube to connect to the Spray Gun pressure port.

H/O Pressure Cups utilize the standard lids/liners that are used with the gravity/siphon feed cups."

[j.miller]

Brother , In 600+ cars I have never turned my gun upside down....bend your wrist, figure it out. You have come a very long way and you are doing good,,,,wish I had kept closer tabs. Correct me if I'm wrong but were you spraying your slick sand in a single coat then blocking ? Ok, I know you're past that part but iffin you were.....spray your urethane in three continuous coats with 8-10 mins flash between. You should be able to 3 coat everything with one gallon. It goes on thinner, smoother and faster then SS....and don't put prepsol on anything from here on out. When I shoot my hood jambs I turn my fan off and shoot the opposite side of the hood opening. Climbing is all good till you catch your toe on the door jamb and go arse over elbow t the ground......and don't climb through the wheel well , you need to stay as clean as possible when you paint, so now is a good time to practice the "art of the fan reduction cross opening Bat spray technique". Happy Fourth Brother ! da Bat

[srobinsonx2]

Brother , In 600+ cars I have never turned my gun upside down....bend your wrist, figure it out. You have come a very long way and you are doing good,,,,wish I had kept closer tabs. Correct me if I'm wrong but were you spraying your slick sand in a single coat then blocking ? Ok, I know you're past that part but iffin you were.....spray your urethane in three continuous coats with 8-10 mins flash between. You should be able to 3 coat everything with one gallon. It goes on thinner, smoother and faster then SS....and don't put prepsol on anything from here on out. When I shoot my hood jambs I turn my fan off and shoot the opposite side of the hood opening. Climbing is all good till you catch your toe on the door jamb and go arse over elbow t the ground......and don't climb through the wheel well , you need to stay as clean as possible when you paint, so now is a good time to practice the "art of the fan reduction cross opening Bat spray technique". Happy Fourth Brother ! da Bat

Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate the input and expert advice. When I say spraying upside down, I actually mean at an angle like the wheel wells or under the rolled edge of the cockpit. How do you spray those without the material running to the other end of the cup?

To answer the slick sand question, I sprayed 3 coats each time. Like you said, I sprayed one coat, waited 10 minutes, then sprayed another coat. I put on a gallon in the first session then blocked with 180 grit. The second round of put on about a gallon and a half. Then blocked it with 220. That is where I am now. Does that sound about right?

I am not using prepsol but I am using a wax and grease remover which I think is essentially the same thing. Maybe I messed up but I have been using it pretty generously to "wet check" for straightness and to clean prior to apply filler, glazing putty, and slick sand. Today I wiped the whole thing down again with this product. Is there something else I should be using to clean prior to 2K and paint? Would acetone work better? It certainly would be a cleaner product and is more aggressive. Here is a picture of what I am using. I got it from the supply house where I am buying my products.



When you say fan reduction, I assume you mean instead of a big fan, you reduce the spray down to a circle pattern. That is a pretty nifty idea. I was worried about getting inside the car. You can actually reach across the entire hood opening that way? I will try that.

Thanks a bunch J.Miller. I know you don't have to help us amateurs but your insights and expertise is greatly appreciated. Happy 4th to you too.

[j.miller]

Soooo, yes, big fan turned down to straight shooting across the opening ( This is a good time to practice). Getting product to stick to edges... get in close (like 4in") . Edges are like airplane wing and the air sheers around them pulling your material with it. To shoot your edges your gun never goes inverted. there is enough paint in the head of the gun to siphone as your gun goes sideways. For shootin the backsides of the wheel well....play with the gun and figure it out (I undercoat our wheel wells out to the edge so I don't have that problem). If you use any "prepsol" it's at the beginning of a job to remove ...well..wax and grease ! It is a solvent and should never be wiped over primer. Primer is porous and the solvent is a great vehicle to embed contamination. If you should happen to get grease or oil on a primer surface wash it with water and a little soap and then sand it clean. (just don't get grease or oil on it and life is better) . To clean before coating..the best way is to go over the surfaces with a gray Scotchbrite in one hand and an air blower in the others. Scotchbrite loosens the debri and the air moves it off the car. (that's actually good enough for priming) but If you want to be sure you can go over it with a yellow tack rag. Stop wet checking ! You can feel 5 times more then you can see. A good trick is to use a thin towel (like Scott Shop Towels) (Home Depot, Pep Boys, Kragen...etc) between your hand and the surface to help you find the rough spots. I would venture a guess that you are good to go after 2 rounds of SS. There is some forgiveness in these bodies due to all the curves......LOAD THAT GUN AND BLOW SOME MATERIAL BROTHER !! da Bat.......whatever ratio your primer says to mix...bump up the reducer15-20%...if its over 80 degrees try to only mix enough to do one coat at a time....If the primer starts to thicken, dump it (no savin it). If you mix a new batch and you have some left from the last round, don't cross mix them. Just put the new on top of the old in the gun and shoot. (cataylzed products start a much faster chain reaction when added to new stuff. if you had twenty minutes....now you have ten).....best of luck!!

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks Jeff for keeping me headed in the right direction. I will pick up some of the gray scotch brite pads and use your method to clean prior to the 2K urethane. Once the 2K urethane is on I will block with 360 grit followed by wet sanding with 600 grit. Can I then wash the car with dawn dish soap real good? Maybe a couple of times. Will that get the car clean enough for paint? I have watched a few videos (Paintucation by Kevin Tetz being the most notable) and they recommend the wash followed by some type of solvent wipe down. In the Paintucation he used a spray foaming glass cleaner, followed by wax and grease remover, and finally wiped everything down with 70% isopropyl alcohol. It sounds like you recommend just the wash with water. I like your idea of not using a solvent. I can see how solvents could get trapped or even work material into the primer. Plus your method sounds easier

The 2K will have to wait until next weekend when I can get an early morning start. I didn't read your post until late in the morning and it is too hot here is "Ol' San Antone" to get suited up in a Tyvek suit for 4 or 5 hours. And I have to go back to my day job, which pays for this crazy project, the rest of the week. I have a few small things I can work on the next few evenings after work. I am going to use Edwardb's side vent mounting technique so I can get those base studs installed. I can also start scoping out the foot box vents I plan to add.

Thanks again for the guidance and support. With help from ya'll, I might actually have a nice looking vehicle.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Listen to what Batty says about cleaners at this stage (in fact listen to everything he says about prep and paint...nevermind the other stuff he rambles about...thats just the solvent fumes talkin'). I had the remnants of some wax & grease cleaner pop up on me once when I started laying base on a trunk lid---never again.

Good luck,
Jeff

[j.miller]

yes, when you're done a whole lotta water and an itty bitty bit of soap. Make sure you spray the underside of body and the buck to get the dust out. Any drying in my shop is done with the paper Shop Towels. Those are the only towels in my shop from start to finish. The reason for that is cross contamination....you never know what a cloth towel will drag around or if it has a burr in it. If you drop a paper towel on the floor....in the trash it goes. We use them to dry, clean up after buffing, washing and glazing....everything....just a way to eliminate one more chance for something to go wrong. Couple things, 1. don't paint with a compressor that blows oil (you can check your air by putting a clean white cloth over an air nozzle for 30 seconds to see if it leaves any residue). C.No WD-40 or other silicone products in the shop. 4. Try to keep your bare hands off the prepped surface, and finaly...."26" (see other posts on other threads)(or skip "26" altogether) this was the part Kleiner was saying not to pay attention to...da bat

[srobinsonx2]

Well, I plan to get up early in the morning and spray the 2K. Hopefully this will be the last primer application before paint. Based on the sage advice of JeffK and JeffM, no more solvents to clean the car. I gave the car a whole week to flash off any solvents that might be trapped. Hopefully that minimizes the risk of issues down the road. I wiped the car down with a tack rag and will do one final tack rag wipe in the morning before spraying.

If you read my earlier posts, you saw I am using a turbine spray system by Apollo. The cup I had didn't allow angles other than just about vertical. Jeff Miller said I should be able to spray without having to hold the gun upside down. I did a couple of dry runs this week after work to practice. While pretending moving around I did find he was right. I can make it happen. Since I had to wait anyway and I had already ordered the H/O type PPS cup, I figured that I not only have better technique but I also have some equipment that will allow me some room for error. The new PPS cup came in Thursday and I tested it out. It worked great. Here is a comparison of the old cup and new. This is the large size if anyone cares.



The set up was easy. Just use the PPS cup like normal but connect the pressure port from the side of the gun to the bottom of the pressure cup. I tested it with water this time. IF you hold the gun upside down and pull the trigger, the air in the liner will be evacuated and the system will function just like a traditional spray gun system. Picture of the gun during the test.



Hopefully I will have good reports on how the system sprays tomorrow. Now keep in mind I only have a $30 Vaper primer gun to compare too and no prior experience so I am certainly not an expert. But, I will report how it turned out for a newbie.

On the safety front I have a Tyvek suit with boots and hood, a full face respirator, and some good gloves. Two box fans set up for positive pressure ventilation should provide good air flow. Feeling good about my protection



Here is the garage all set up.



Its a little cramped but I have played with the set up and this is about as good as it is going to get. Wish me luck

[RoadRacer]

SO MUCH LUCK! Sending good vibes - can't wait to see it at the local cars n coffee soon

[squareback]

Waiting to see the results here...

[jrcuz]

Are you done yet, how'd you do?
JR

[Boydster]

What time should I drop off mine?

[srobinsonx2]

Well, the 2K urethane primer surfacer is applied and I with no "major" issues.

Boydster,

Before you load up your car and head to San Antonio, you might want to check out some of the issues below. I am by no means a professional and with each application I learn something new. And by learn something new, I mean I screw up and figure it out the hard way.

I just got finished. Started spraying about 5:30 AM and finished about 9:00 AM which included clean up. I sprayed 1 1/3 gallons of JP202. I had a few observations and some learnings. Observations first:

1. This material and gun set up sprayed much smoother, faster, and layed down more material than the primer gun and Slick Sand. It might be a combination of both. I was using the 1.8mm tip as J.Miller suggested. I had the flow adjustment (needle) turned out two full turns. I mixed the ratio 4:1:1.5 as well like Jeff said. I had to move the gun a lot faster and could cover more surface with one pass than with the slick sand. With this material I am was able to apply it with a 50% overlap. The Slick Sand I had to do more like a 70% overlap.
2. This product flows out better, which to this amateur means less orange peel.
3. 1 1/3 gallons allowed my to apply 4 coats. The spec sheet says a wet coat. I took that to mean apply it until just before it runs. You can see below I got carried away in a couple of spots. Hopefully these sand out easily. They of course are right on the little knob of the back passenger side. We will see what I can do with that.



Now for the learnings and for me the more important part:

1. I sweat like a virgin at a prison rodeo. Well, that is not the learning, I already knew that. What I didn't know was even with the Tyvek suit, sweat can still drip down your arm and onto the panel you just painted or was about to paint. I will need to do something about this. I am going to get some wrist bands to wear under my sleeves and hopefully absorb the sweat. I will also tape my sleeves for extra protection. I had two or three spots that got water on the panel after I sprayed. I just left them alone and will see what happens when I block them out. Here are a couple of examples:





I also see I missed a pin hole on that second picture. That's nice.

2. I think I should spray "with" the air flow in my home made booth. Today I sprayed against the flow. I started at the back of the car and move towards the front. The fans were blowing from front to back. This caused overspray (fine dust) to settle on the surface I just sprayed. Is it correct to go with the flow?

3. I will need to wet the floor down for the actual painting. The overspray dries on the rosin paper and becomes essentially dust. That won't work for paint and clear.

4. The "art of the fan reduction cross opening Bat spray technique" worked pretty good. I am probably not as effective as the inventor but we will see how I did when I start blocking. I didn't even get a run in that area.

5. The PPS cups are the way to go. I was able to mix up a new batch and not even clean the gun between batches. With the large size (28 oz), I was able to spray everything with about 2 full cups. That should help me judge how much base and clear to get

Let me know if I messed up anywhere. Helpful criticism is appreciated.

[Straversi]

This is my favorite TV show. Can't wait for the next episode. Seriously, this is an amazing thread. You are helping so many current and future builders determine if they have the time, patience, facility, skill and resiliency to paint their own car. You are doing a great job and and even better job of documenting the learning curve.

My hats off to the pros who have been riding shotgun. Your support for the community is awesome and even though you are giving away years of experience, I'm sure you are gaining many future customers.

Keep going brother. Can't wait to see the end result.
-Steve

[phileas_fogg]

What Steve said. You & the Jeffs are certainly adding to the body of knowledge (pun intended) here on the forum. Kudos to you!


John

This is my favorite TV show. Can't wait for the next episode. Seriously, this is an amazing thread. You are helping so many current and future builders determine if they have the time, patience, facility, skill and resiliency to paint their own car. You are doing a great job and and even better job of documenting the learning curve.

My hats off to the pros who have been riding shotgun. Your support for the community is awesome and even though you are giving away years of experience, I'm sure you are gaining many future customers.

Keep going brother. Can't wait to see the end result.
-Steve

[jrcuz]

Hang in there, you're doing a great job and educating us. Thanks!
JR

[j.miller]

Correct, paint with the flow....DO NOT wet the floor. Working in that tight space with a hose getting wet on the floor will be a disaster if you get a "hose whip" and sling water onto the paint.....I'll tell you how I avoid dust on the floor.....I DON'T POINT MY GUN AT THE FLOOR ! What goes on the floor stays on the floor....when you spray your clear it will stick it to the floor...da bat

[srobinsonx2]

Sorry for two posts in one day. But wanted to thank everyone for the kind words and encouragement. Thanks Jeff. I will paint "with the flow" next time.

I just went out and checked my work now that it has had time to dry. I noticed what I think is overspray on all the horizontal services. All of the horizontal surfaces (top of the car, hood, etc) is rough feeling. All of the vertical surfaces are smooth. It appears to be overspray that has settled on the these horizontal areas. I think it is the order/direction (counter flow)in which is sprayed, just not sure. I am using the high temp hardener and the slow reducer to combat the hot Texas temps. It was probably 75 F when I started spraying and 80-85 by the time I got done. Since the vertical surfaces are smooth I am hoping I can do like Miller says and avoid this problem when I paint.

I will try and do some blocking tomorrow to see how the different areas turn out. I plan to use 320 grit and sand things dry with my flexible blocks like I have done on the previous sanding rounds. I will also use my dry guide coat unless you guys think that is a mistake. I could probably get by without the guide coat but it sure makes it easy to see the low areas and not miss something.

I will report back.

[srobinsonx2]

I got up this morning and blocked out the panels (doors, hood, and trunk lid) with 320 grit. I thought I had purchased 350 but I think what I have will do. The 2K sands easy but certainly does clog the paper easily. The overspray I mentioned in my previous posts sanded off easily. I was also able to sand out the three spots where my sweat dripped onto the primer. I was then only left to smooth out the orange peel. It is hard to see but below is a picture of what I typically got for smoothness on the 2K application. This level of orange peel was pretty much everywhere.



I took the above picture after I remove about half of what was needed to get it smooth. For the clogging issue I used a small air nozzle on my compressor to blow the clogged material out of the paper. Everything went smoothly except I found one additional pin hole and had burn through on a couple of edges. Here is a picture of the burn through on the hood.



I really didn't want to get the 2K back out, suit up, and dirty up the gun. After sanding all the panels I decided I was just being lazy and should probably spot spray some 2K to do it right. I got everything all set up, blew off the dust, tag rag (NO SOLVENT USED AT ALL) and mixed up a small batch of 2K. I turned the fan down about half way, reduced the fluid flow to about 1 full turn open and applied 3 coats to just those small areas with burn through. Oh, before all this, I also put some glazing putty on the pin hole, let that dry then sanded. Covered that with 2K as well.

I am going to let that touch up 2K dry and get those panels cleaned up (hopefully this afternoon when it cools off a little).

I will start on the body this week and hopefully get everything cleaned up and prep next weekend. That means, if all goes well, I can spray some color in two weeks.

As usual let me know if you see anything I have done wrong.

[carlewms]

Fantastic thread ... learning a boat load from this one ...

[Jeff Kleiner]

... For the clogging issue I used a small air nozzle on my compressor to blow the clogged material out of the paper...

Keep a fine wire brush on you and run it across the paper a couple of times as it begins to load up.

Jeff

[j.miller]

A fine wire brush works , myself, I prefer a piece of Scotch Brite......or a shot of scotch (I get those two mixed up sometimes)...Your air works as well. If you keep the scotch near where you are sanding you can just make one swipe across the pad and keep bustin primer (saves a little time) , then a shot of scotch...your dry guide is just fine.....don't worry about the burn throughs on the edge the sealer will handle that. Only burn throughs you need to concern yourself with are if they have exposed filler. You can suit up every time you spray or you can do what I do....I don't wear shoot suits for the very reasons you talked about earlier.....They're lucky if they can get the cigarette out of my mouth while I'm painting !...da bat

[srobinsonx2]

I got some work done this week. 16 hours logged. So far I have put 134 hours into the body work.

Thanks JKleiner and JMiller. I have a small wire brush I will try out tomorrow. I also like the scotch idea......both the pad and a good single malt. That might make the sanding much more enjoyable.

So on the burn through, I wasn't going to spray sealer. I thought I could just spray right on top of the 2K. Is that not recommended? What does a sealer provide that a primer surfacer does not?

[srobinsonx2]

Sounds like maybe the experts recommend a sealer. True? I did some research and found a PPG product, JP335. It is a 2K urethane sealer. It is mixed 4:1:1. I don't really know the difference between a primer surfacer and a sealer but from my research it sounds like the sealer is just used to........well....seal. It appears to help with basecoat coverage and in my case some burn through. It sounds like the sealer won't absorb as much of the base coat color and since the sealer is cheaper than base coat it might save a little money. I was hoping I was getting close to paint but if the experts confirm I need a sealer then I will apply a sealer.

If I do apply a sealer, what are the steps? Sand primer surfacer with 320, wet sand surfacer with 600, the apply sealer? Do I need to sand the sealer at all? According to the product sheet, a base coat can be applied to the sealer with out any sanding/scuffing within a 72 hour window. Thoughts on this approach?

Thanks in advance for the help.

So, no pictures or updates today.

[scottiec]

This is the most outstanding thread. Thanks for doing this.

[weendoggy]

If I do apply a sealer, what are the steps? Sand primer surfacer with 320, wet sand surfacer with 600, the apply sealer? Do I need to sand the sealer at all? According to the product sheet, a base coat can be applied to the sealer with out any sanding/scuffing within a 72 hour window. Thoughts on this approach?

Thanks in advance for the help.

So, no pictures or updates today.

Just got done redoing my car and yes, seal the primer before laying color. I had sanded/blocked the primer coat down to 800 before double checking for pin holes and blemishes (missed a few) and then wipe down with a tack cloth in the booth and shoot the PPG primer. You can do this and lay paint within your 72 hour window. No need to sand the sealer. You can also go around the body after shooting the sealer and touch up any blemish you still miss with putty. Apply and lay another touch of sealer over that area. If you're happy, lay the paint and continue to the finish.

[DaveS53]

Primer coats should never be sanded down to 1500. It would be rare that even 400 grit scratches would show. 600 grit certainly won't.

Thinned epoxy primer can be used as a sealer. The instructions usually say to let it sit for an hour before applying urethane top coats.

[weendoggy]

Primer coats should never be sanded down to 1500. It would be rare that even 400 grit scratches would show. 600 grit certainly won't.

Correction, sanded down to 800 on primer. Double checked with painter. It was 1500, 2000, 3000 on finish.

[j.miller]

You are on track with finish sanding with 500 if you seal/ 600 over primer. Here is the dealio with sealer. You choose a "gray tone" in the shade range of your base coat. Helps with coverage and fills scratches you may have put in with the edge of the paper. Yes you can shoot color without sanding it (it has very low fill properties). It is not "as" sensitive to contaminates so if the sealer goes on without blemishing, the basecoat will follow. If you get a prob in the sealer it only needs to flash for an hour then you can lightly sand with 600. I seal everything....then I shoot my stripe color, mask it, then lightly go over the whole body (minus stripe) with a couple pieces of 600 using half a Scotch Brite pad as a soft backer in the palm of my hand, blow it off, tack it, shoot it ! Your base coat will stick no prob to the burn throughs on glass but if there is any filler in pin holes it will reject the basecoat. If you have a color that covers real well you can spray just your burn throughs to get them started "coloring up" then shoot the whole thing. If after 2 coats you can still see where you burned through....YOUR'E SCREWED !!!.....no not really. You can go back to babysitting those areas (spot spraying) till it colors up. then give more coats till you have complete coverage,,,,then one more coat. Almost always, if you seal with the proper tone you should be covered in 3....some colors can be more transparent then others. Your supplier should be able to tell you if it has good coverage....da Bat

[slpro1207]

This is a very helpful thread. It really reinforces in my mind all of the reasons why I will have Da Bat Jeff take care my roadster. There's not enough Scotch in the world that could get me through this process. Tons of respect for those that do though. ��

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks everyone. Special thanks to Jeff Miller for the continued support to this amateur and all my silly questions. So sealer it is. I will seal after I finish blocking (320 grit) and then wet sanding (600 grit) the primer surfacer. I will follow your recipe above and continue on.

I got all the panels blocked with the 320 and will start on the body tomorrow. I also pulled up all the rosin paper and took down the plastic I used in the primer stage. Just like the body components, the floor and plastic on the walls were covered with the same dry spray/overspray dusting. I am actually glad I am going to spray sealer now. With all this overspray, I either have an equipment set up issue, lack of air movement in my home made booth, or a technique issue. It is probably a little bit of all three. I am going to remedy the air movement issue. I will pick up a big shop fan this week. My technique might be a little off as well. I might be a little too far away from the panel. I thought I was less than six inches but maybe Im getting a little further away than I think. Easy fix and I will focus on staying 4-6 inches away. I was also using a 1.8mm nozzle size with the primer surfacer. I am not sure but maybe that has something to do with the amount of overspray I got. The product sheet recommends 1.3-1.6 mm. Maybe I was just getting too much material out of the gun and it was creating some overspray. I will work on all three and see if the sealer doesn't go down better.

I will carry on. Not much exciting to show everyone. Just a lot of gray dust. I am almost done with dry sanding thank goodness. I am looking forward to trying the wet sanding. I hear it is at least not as messy. More to come.

[RoadRacer]

I have a monster portable fan if you need one. Not sure what you need but you're welcome to borrow this for the duration (it's not one I use)

[DaveS53]

Too much air velocity will make things worse. If you're spraying finish coats, any air going into a booth need some filtration, or you'll end up with dirt in the paint. I had huge amounts of over spray on the floor of my booth, particularly when painting the frame. I shot two coats of epoxy primer, followed by 2-3 coats of satin urethane. When spraying tubes, a lot of the paint is wasted, even with a narrow spray pattern.

[srobinsonx2]

Too much air velocity will make things worse. If you're spraying finish coats, any air going into a booth need some filtration, or you'll end up with dirt in the paint. I had huge amounts of over spray on the floor of my booth, particularly when painting the frame. I shot two coats of epoxy primer, followed by 2-3 coats of satin urethane. When spraying tubes, a lot of the paint is wasted, even with a narrow spray pattern.

Hmmmm. You make agood point. Having over spray on the floor doesn't really hurt. My concern was that it settled on the body and panels. It sands off really easy so I think it is over spray and not caused by me moving to fast or wrong reducer, etc. Now you have me questioning my plan. The primer coats I have sprayed are not bad. They have slight orange peel but much better than slick sand. Just the horizontal surfaces have this sandy feel.

I am using filters on my fans to stop dusty and debris.

Any thoughts? I need to get this figured out before color. A sand look is not what i am going for. I guess I could be a new paint technique. I'll call it the beach look.

[DaveS53]

One of the big problems with trying to paint a car in a small place, is that you can only paint a small part of the body at one time. A pro painting a fancy metallic would be sure that all of the gallons of paint were intermixed to insure the same color for all batches and spray the last coat in the same direction, so there's no chance of the main body and a door or trunk lid having a different look. That's why I would not use a metallic paint.

If you leave freshly painted panels where they will be exposed to over spray dust, it will stick to those panels. I wouldn't want colored dust stuck to the clearcoat. It will probably be removed in the color sanding process, but it's still a concern.

My body has 14 pieces that were painted no more than two at a time. The main body was all I could fit into a 10' x 17' area. I was able to take most parts to my basement the day after painting, to get the parts away from over spray. It was a slow process because some days all I did was paint one large part, like my trunk lid or hood.

I'd recommend painting only one small part like a door or trunk lid to start with and see how bad the orange peel is before proceeding with any other panel. You can color sand the part the next day. If the orange peel is too bad, you might have to sand briefly with 600-800, just to knock down the worst, before moving on to 1000 and finer grits. One tough part is trying to figure out when to switch to the next finer grit. Ideally, you'll just remove all orange peel at the 2000 grit stage. At least those scratches can be buffed out. Today's buffing compounds all claim to remove 1200 and finer scratches, but that's not what I found. Using both Maguire's and 3M's best compounds and top quality 3M foam buffing pads, only 2000 and finer scratches would come out in any reasonable amount of time. I often found a long scratch remaining after a lot of buffing and had to go over the scratch with 2500 to remove it, then finish buffing. You must clean the area with wax and grease remover before sanding with 2500 or it will clog immediately.

Note the wax and grease remover is not recommended for cleaning items just before top coats. The paint instructions will usually suggest another solvent, perhaps enamel thinner. Acetone, lacquer thinner or urethane thinner will dissolve urethane or epoxy primers that have had too little curing time. You also need special wipers to use just before the top coats. Don't risk using any sort of fabric.

[j.miller]

Gimmy a call and we'll talk about your options with garage shooting....951-676-0191

[srobinsonx2]

I have a monster portable fan if you need one. Not sure what you need but you're welcome to borrow this for the duration (it's not one I use)

Thanks RoadRacer. I talked to Jeff Miller and I think I have a good plan now. A change to my air flow in my home made garage. I am going to do a test with my existing equipment. If it doesn't work then I might hit you up. Thanks so much for the offer. This is just a great group of guys.

[srobinsonx2]

WOW!!!!! I am just blown away! Jeff Miller was nice enough to take my call this evening and we talked for about 30 minutes and he gave me some tips, tricks and recommendations on how I can approach this DIY paint project. I am just amazed as how nice and helpful he was. He paints for a living and is willing to take the time to help someone half way across the country he has never met that honestly has never done this before. Thanks again Jeff. I will have to come up with some way to repay him.

His talked inspired me and I sanded until it got dark. About halfway done with the dry sanding on the body. So a few more days and then on to wet sanding. Jeff gave me some go does before sealer and paint. I will finish sanding and complete my Miller "homework". I will post picture of the "homework" for him to critique.

This place is just awesome.......AWESOME!!!!

[srobinsonx2]

This update might be a little long so bear with me. I started on my homework assigned by Professor Miller. When I talked to Jeff this week, he suggested I get some paint and test my gun set up and technique on some poster board. So I went to my supply shop and picked up some "oops" paint. This is paint they mixed but didn't match the color perfectly. I got two pints for $15. The paint is PPG's Shopline brand. It their mid grade called JB. I plan on using the higher grade JBP but the supply store said the only difference would be the type of pigments used and this would work fine for my test. So I tried to take a methodical approach to my test. I wanted to see how the different adjustments on the gun and my technique would affect how the paint sprayed. I was focused primarily on reducing the excessive over spray I had experienced with the primer surfacer. So here is what I did. Hung some plastic and white poster board on the wall in my garage. I mixed up some paint. Like I said the paint is JB which is a 1:1 mix ratio. I used Shoplines JR507 reducer. It is their slow reducer (75-85 F). It was a little warmer than that in my garage so not sure how that affects things. I then set up the gun with a 1.5mm nozzle/needle set. Below is the first test I did with the following set up:

- 7 inches from the panel (I was more like 4" on the primers)
- Flow was set 2 full turns out
- The output level on the turbine was high
- I adjusted the fan from 100 - 0% in 25% increments



The picture does not capture it well but you can see there was some considerable overspray and the length of the fan is over 13" at 100%. Non of the patterns look right so just adjusting the fan didn't help much with overspray.

I then did a second board with the flow nozzle turned down to 1 turn out. That definitely helped with overspray but still more than I expected. Per the videos on youtube, Apollo claims 85% transfer efficiency. I am not sure what the should look like but I thought maybe I could improve the amount outside the "football" shape pattern I was targeting. I then decided to do the same fan pattern test with the flow set at 1 turn out but with the turbine set on low output. Per the manual this reduces the "power" of the system by 30%. The picture below is a comparison of the first board and the board with reduce power and reduced flow.



It is kind of hard to see in the picture but the patterns on the left have essentially no overspray (maybe just a few small specs outside the pattern). I think the ideal setting would be the following with this paint:

1. Turbine power setting on low
2. Material flow set to 1 turn out
3. Fan pattern set to just below 50%
4. Distance from panel of 7 inches.

This gives a nice 8" fan width and much less overspray. I think I am headed in the right direction.

Here is a picture of the fan pattern at the ideal settings and two pass so I could see how thick it sprays. I had to move slower of course than I was used to with my previous set up.



see next post......

[srobinsonx2]

Here is a close up picture of the two different extremes when I did passes. I zoomed in to try and get a better picture of the overspray.



The pattern on the right is the high flow, high power, and wider fan. You can't see all the small overspray but it goes all the way to the edge of the poster board. The pattern on the left has just a slight bit right next to the pattern but the board is essentially clean all the way to the edge.

I then was pretty happy with the settings and did some spraying with the boards laying on the ground. Same results and not as big an issue with over spray. I think my set up is pretty good and I have a better feel for how the different adjustments affect the spray pattern.

I then did a vertical spray test with multiple passes. The picture below was my second such attempt. I had some difficulty keeping the gun the same 7" away and moving in smooth parallel lines with good 50% overlap on the first attempt. It was better on the second but not perfect. You can see where I got too far apart and got too close on the left hand side. I think the right looks ok. For reference, this was one coat with probably 4-5 passes at my ideal settings.



So let me know what you guys think. Need some honest feedback/criticism.