Srobinsonx2 Bodywork

[Gromit]

wow my schooling as a manufacturing engineer is kicking in...

What about stopping after stripe color.

waiting until the night or next morning to tape. Give the strips a chance to really cure. or is that really not a consideration with catalyzed paint..
I would also think you want to have time to thoroughly clean the spray gun on the color change...
Then do an second AM session on Saturday for the main color. That way your not dead tired at the end of an already long day. and if you start color at the same time each day you should have similar temperature profile. consistency is a key here or so I think..

keep going and keep posting.
Chris AKA Gromit

[Jeff Kleiner]

I have to agree with the professor RE: striping time. If you have established a centerline and put down some benchmarks so that you can get back to it 2 hours is still pushing it; if you're beginning from ground zero allow more. Take your time, trust your eyes and be sure that the tape is tight in all of the small radius areas like the hood and trunk flanges. You are correct in using the 1/4" tape as your spacer between the main and outside stripes.

Good luck!

Jeff

[srobinsonx2]

Well, I talked to Jeff Miller today. He gave me some last minute taping instructions and a pep talk. So I am ready now. I got the scoop, hood and deck lid taped off on the top side. Word or advice. If you are going to do this get paper that is wider than 6 inches. I bought the 6 inch paper for the stripes. Miller recommended just using tape which is what I plan to do. So I decided to use the 6 inch wide paper to cover the tops of the deck and hood. What a PITA. Get something wider. Got it done and all set up. So I sprayed a coat of sealer on the under side of these parts. It took about 8 oz of mixed JP335 to cover these parts. It laid down very smooth and I had virtual no overspray. I am just surprised at how well this new gun set up performs compared to my uneducated initial set up (wide open fan and wide open fluid flow). Here is a shot of the hood.



The deck lid and scoop look the same. I will spray color and clear on these parts tomorrow. I am excited and my confidence is building with each successful application of new product. Couldn't have gotten here without the help of you guys. Special shout out to da Bat. This guys rocks. Hopefully my next post has some shiny color.

If anyone is interested, I have logged 169.5 hours so far. So, if I am the average amatuer it is going to 170-180 hours of bodywork before spraying paint. I will keep logging hours until I am done.

P.S. I just previewed my post and need to take the flip flop brackets off the hood. I left those in case I wanted to use them again. I am committed now, so those can go. I will do that before paint and clear tomorrow.

[srobinsonx2]

wow my schooling as a manufacturing engineer is kicking in...

What about stopping after stripe color.

waiting until the night or next morning to tape. Give the strips a chance to really cure. or is that really not a consideration with catalyzed paint..
I would also think you want to have time to thoroughly clean the spray gun on the color change...
Then do an second AM session on Saturday for the main color. That way your not dead tired at the end of an already long day. and if you start color at the same time each day you should have similar temperature profile. consistency is a key here or so I think..

keep going and keep posting.
Chris AKA Gromit

Thanks Chris. Us engineers need to stick together. We aren't like normal folks, kind of messed up at times. Good point on resting and that is kind of what I am going to do. I will paint the stripes, let them flash for an hour or two then tape. It will then be the middle of the day and I will take a break until it gets cooler outside (late evening). Cooler is relative down here in Texas. Anything south of 85F is within my reducer range. IF I am too tired, I can wait until the next morning. The paint I am using, PPG shopline JBP, has a 24 hour clear coat window so should be ok.

[srobinsonx2]

I have to agree with the professor RE: striping time. If you have established a centerline and put down some benchmarks so that you can get back to it 2 hours is still pushing it; if you're beginning from ground zero allow more. Take your time, trust your eyes and be sure that the tape is tight in all of the small radius areas like the hood and trunk flanges. You are correct in using the 1/4" tape as your spacer between the main and outside stripes.

Good luck!

Jeff

Thanks a bunch Jeff. Your help has been invaluable. I do have some established landmarks for the stripes. I did a stripe test early in the body work process (when I was setting gaps). I have a small hole drilled on the underside of the oiler cooler opening. I also have the center of the hood opening marked between two bumper holes I have drilled. So finding center should be pretty easy. Miller also gave me some good pointer about laying out the center stripe. He starts from the back and that will work well with my pre-established points. Thanks again for the help and info.

[Jeff Kleiner]

... I will take a break until it gets cooler outside (late evening)...

One thing to keep in mind with that evening spraying---bugs! When they get active as dusk approaches no matter how tight you think you have your space sealed the bastages seem to find a way in, especially when they're drawn to your lights. A few years ago I was about to lay the clear on one late in the day but my wife insisted that I come in and eat. Turned out to be a good thing 'cause when I went back out a half hour later those little pecker gnats were swarming and some had found their way in (BTW, you know why they call 'em pecker gnats don't you?). If I had been putting down the clear undoubtedly some would have wound up in it. That was a case where it was definitely better to wait until the next morning.

Hood looks good Man!

Jeff

[awd-turbo]

Fantastic..... Thanks for the timeline and time frame... I was wondering about how fast that clear has to go on... I just finished all my slick sand last night... I am right behind you. The info that da bat and kleiner have posted is awesome...

[srobinsonx2]

I am pretty excited. I sprayed color as planned tonight. I got the underside of the hood, deck lid, and scoop as planned. I also knocked out the doors. I was feeling ambitious and confident so just went for it.

I first sealed the doors and let that flash. Mixed up some red and got after it. I applied 3 coats on everything. I had pretty good coverage on two coats but thought I could see a couple of uneven spots. Went ahead and laid down the third and think I am good. Here is a picture of the hood scoop after the full 3 coats.



The paint laid down very well. It turned out really smooth with virtually no orange peel. I was pretty happy. So I waited 30 minutes for everything to flash real good and then mixed up some clear. Oh, I cleaned my gun real good between color and clear. I put down two good coats and did notice some orange peel. Not bad (at least I didn't think so) and decided a little extra layer wouldn't hurt since I will most likely need to cut and buff. I don't who I think I was kidding thinking i wouldn't need to do some work after clear. I take that back I do know who I was kidding.......myself. Here is a shot of the top of the door after 3 coats. It was the best picture I could get to show the level of orange peel. What do you think? Is that too rough to proceed to the main body and tops of the panels?



Hood



If look real close just below the light reflection, you can see where a bug landed on the clear and decided to do the Texas two step across my pretty shiny new clear. BASTAGES!!! I picked him out as quick as I could and immediately sent him on to meet his maker. OH, I cussed him real good as well. Here is close up of his aftermath. I wonder if this can be fixed? I tried getting those little black spots out but they seemed to just be poop or something. No way to pick it out. Left it alone and it will either sand out or I will have to live with some of it????? OH THE HUMANITY!!!!



Overall, I think it went well. The pictures don't really show the color well. I am excited to see what it looks like in the sun. Maybe I can snap some pics in the sun tomorrow afternoon. I can then post some more paint porn.

Give me some honest feedback. I am going to start the main body paint Friday so could use some feedback. Thanks in advance guys. I had some other learnings and will post those later. I am tired and have to go to my day job in the morning.

[Boydster]

I can imagine your level of excitement. Its gonna be beautiful, bug poop and all.

[carlewms]

Wow! I am no expert ... and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so no valuable feedback here. It sure looks great and you sure are helping all of us out that are facing that DIY painting challenge with this "must read" thread.

[Gromit]

No expert here ether and I am going to be staying there this week end.... But the way I judge orange peel in photos is by using reflection s. In that bug black spot shot look at the reflection of the camera phone thje edge is pretty straight and smooth. I've seen worse from pros and factory's.

Well done you're an inspiration
Chris aka Gromit
Ps I hope we're not getting spammy with the hotel references

[j.miller]

Nice job preserving the DNA on that bug....don'tcha just hate it when the legs pull off. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have just left the whole bug in there for conversation sake. Well done, got your feet wet, base looks good. Before you shoot again I want to do a little homework on your clear and see iffin we can get it to lay down like a cheap Singapore hoo......... um.....go down smoother then a nice single malt whisky (HA! PULLED THA ONE OUT OF THE GUTTER !) (that was close)...da bat

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks guys.

Jeff,

I noticed that if I got a little further away, I got less orange peel. The first coat had most of the peel. The second and third I think were better. Just don't think once you have some peel, it can be fixed with additional coats.

Do you have any advice? I am going to spray clear in the AM from now on. I think the cooler temps should help. It was hot and i think i am at the high end of the hardener range. JH6720

Do you think what i have can be salvaged?

[awd-turbo]

Did you slick sand the hood scoop? Then prime and paint it?

[srobinsonx2]

Did you slick sand the hood scoop? Then prime and paint it?

Yes sir. Slick Sand, 2k primer, sealer, paint, and clear. Essentially just like I did the other parts except no rage gold. Sanded just like everything else.

[srobinsonx2]

So, I did some homework. I wasn't sure if Jeff said he was going to do the homework or I should. Either way, I talked to the shop where I am buying my products. Great guys. We called their technical product rep and talked about the clear I am using which is Shopline JC6700. He said it was perfectly fine to reduce the clear. He said up to a 2:1:0.5 ratio. I don't think that much is necessary. I am sure Miller will chime in and get me straight. I just thought I would share what I learned since the product sheet does not mention reducer at all (whether it is ok or not ok).

In case someone missed it, I am using a turbine spray system. I can't really adjust the pressure. I get what I get. When I talked to manufacturer of the turbine system and read their troubleshooting guides, they mention two corrections for orange peel. One is spray distance and the other is reducing the material. So I now know I have that option. I will wait for some expert opinions here.

[Frank Messina]

Not to interrupt the flow of this (no pun intended) but this thread is reminiscent of the earliest build days on the other other forums where we were glued to the monitor as problems were solved and cars built minute by minute. It was like a soap opera, As The Wrench Turns". This thread has that same problem solving fascination. Great work srobinson2x. Keep it up. You have a following.
Frank

[j.miller]

So GOOD ! you can add some reducer. That stuff is like "spray glue" and you need to atomize better. So yes, thinning the material is one way. Smaller tip and paint slower is another way and last would be to use the high air setting on the Turbo. I am all for thinning....reason being. A. High pressure more overspray. 2. Smaller tip slower painting. D. Thinning should allow you to shoot pretty much the same as you have been. ...if your first coat is peely you can paint your way out of it. Each coat you put on "wets" the previous coat. The problem you run into is as you try to melt it out you can get a heavy saggy look to your clear. You are on the right track brother.....Back to the practice paper. You DO NOT want to learn something new or experiment on the car. Now would be a good time to practice your spot repair. Prep the bottom of the hood with 600, spot in that bug carnage, and re-clear using the new formula and see how it goes....cheers...da Bat

[j.miller]

Oh! and for anyone following this....if you have the "plastic" scoop...Lightly sand with 320 and hit it with Bulldog adhesion promotor, give it 2 full coats of 2k urethane. Finish sand with 5-600 and paint.

[srobinsonx2]

Two questions:

1. So when you say prep the bottom. You mean just sand the bug carnage out not the whole underside? In the meantime. I will go practice on some paper. I have some little dirt specs/debris that got on the top after I finished spraying the clear last night. I think I can get that cleaned up with the cut and buff. It isn't much.

2. Do i need to worry about the orange peel on the doors/deck lid? Since they are insect fee, I hope I can smooth that out during the cut and buff as well. The top edge of the driver side door (on the inside of the rolled edge has quite a bit. I din't see that until this afternoon). I took some pics but you can't really see it.

Thanks a bunch Jeff.

Here is a pic of the color in the sun

[j.miller]

No, Prep the whole bottom of the hood with 600, don't try to sand the bug out...just sand it smooth. You'll know you're done when the surface is dull and even. You can use a scotch brite in the grooves so you don't sand through. Just shoot a little paint over the black specs if you still see them hit them again extending the spray out....do it till you can't see them then re-clear with 2 coats of clear. As far as cut and buff....CRAP!!....THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER THREAD !

[Duke]

Nice work on getting some color down. Looking good.

Two things are a painters best friend. Flat razor blades and sewing needles. Have a few sewing needles on hand to help pick out the bugs/bug parts in wet paint or anything else that may fall into it. If you get a bug or two in the clear you can pick it out, and lay down another extra pass or two so you have more wet sanding buffer to get it flat. The flat razor blades (with the ends rounded smooth from sand paper) are to be used for flattening out runs after the paint has dried, before wet sanding/buffing.

Another trick, if you sweat a lot wrap a few shop towels around your wrists, then using tape to secure them. This helps keep any sweat drips off the paint.

When you lay down your clear coats, air flow is going to be your friend in the garage. Without it you won't be able to see across the garage it will be so thick. Anything you don't want coated, get it out now. If you have enough air flow, make sure you have filters to keep the bugs and other junk out. Preferably on both sides (inlet and outlet).

Most important, have a beer between base and clear coat, relax, and then get after it.

[srobinsonx2]

I took a second run at the hood last night. I sanded the bottom with 600 per my instructions. I did this wet. I tried it dry but the paper just clogs up immediately. Let it dry real good. Tacked it and sprayed some more color. Got good coverage then let it flash for 30 minutes. And sprayed some clear. I had done some testing earlier as Jeff suggested. I really varied two things to see if I could get a little less orange peel. I tried two different amounts of reducer and changed the power output on the turbine. I did a 2:1:0.5 ratio and a 2:1:0.25 ratio. The 2:1:0.5 worked the best. It does have a tendency to run/sag if you don't keep things moving but I think that is manageable. My turbine has two power outputs, high and low. Low is just 30% off max. Tried both but not much difference. I have been spraying with the low so I went with that. I also tried changing my distance from the poster board but that didn't make any drastic changes. Anyway, I got something that I thought was workable and laid down clear on the hood. Here is the end result. Certainly better, probably ok, but not perfect.



I am going to try a smaller nozzle and needle combo this afternoon. I am using a 1.5mm and will drop down to a 1.3mm and see if that helps. I sprayed the stripe color this morning and had a little color left over in the PPS cup. Laid that down on some poster board. That will give me another practice round.

I am certainly more comfortable with spraying material now. I got up early this morning, taped off the underside of the hood. I taped the undersides of the trunk and scoop last night. Flipped those over, ran a scotch brite pad over everything and tacked it off. I then sprayed sealer on everything including the body. That was uneventful and laid down smooth. No overspray and I went "with the air flow". After a 30-40 minute flash, I mixed up some stripe color and laid that down. Here are a couple of shots. I went a little wider than needed but I thought I would rather be safe than sorry.





The silver is a little hard to see but it has some metallic flake that will match the level of metallic in my red. I am letting that flash for a couple of hours and then I will go laid out the stripes and try to perfect my clear set up.

I am getting closer. This painting process is a little nerve racking. I have to just remind myself to take it slow, anything can be fixed, and I have great tutors so it will eventually turn out good.

[srobinsonx2]

When the Jeffs tell you it is Christmas in July.....just go ahead and start hanging you stockings. They said stripes would take longer to tape off than my planned 2-3 hours. Well it took me a little over 4 hours. I am all done now.





I kind of like the neon green and silver. Some one should paint one those colors.

The panels are all 91 degrees so no paint until it cools off this evening (which means after 8:30PM down here is Ole San Antone). I will also test the clear this evening. Hopefully I can a set up that is just a little smoother. If not, I think the orange peel I am getting now is fixable.

I am going to straighten up the garage, cool off in the pool, have a cold drink, relax, and visualize glass smooth clear on top of red and silver. By this time tomorrow I will either be ecstatic or bummed. Either way, I will post some pictures.

Wish me luck,

Shannon

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looking good; here's wishing you luck

I kind of like the neon green and silver. Some one should paint one those colors.

...kind of partial to neon green and orange myself.



Jeff

100_4971.jpg

[j.miller]

If you spray tonight you are gonna have a bug problem....A BIG BUG PROBLEM !! They are gonna see the lights in your garage and it will be party time......yes , the 1.3 should give you more atomization as well as slow the material a bit so you don't have to be on your toes so much. It's all lookin real,,,i say, I SAY , REAL GOOD !

[srobinsonx2]

Well, I am pretty excited. I got the clear on. Got up early and got after it. Last night I tried he 1.3mm nozzle and needle with the clear on some poster board. NO GOOD. Orange peel was worse. It was probably my technique but couldn't get comfortable and decided I would just go with the 1.5mm and live with the results. Here is shot of the car before clear. The paint went on fine with no issues.



Here she is after a couple hours of set time. I have the garage open to let it air out. Man that clear is just nasty. Smells bad, hard to spray, and sticky. But it looks good now.





I was pleasantly surprised this morning. I am not sure if it was my prayers I said last night or the cooler temps but the clear laid down much smoother than my past attempts. I focused on my technique, 50% overlap, and a medium wet coat. Here is a close up



But, with all that smooth clear, I of course got some runs. I have about four. Here are two examples but the others look about the same. The second pic has some orange peel as well. That is probably the worst spot on the car. Driver's side of course.





I think I can fix these. I am going to do some research today and get a game plan. Any guidance would be much appreciated. I have watched some Youtube videos and have a basic idea but specifics would help. Thanks in advance.

No way I could have gotten this far with the help, honest feedback, and support. Special thanks the Jeff Miller for the hand holding and answering my stupid questions.

[RR20AC]

Hey that looks a lot like my car Miller just painted! Guess we both have something in common as Jeff Miller was part of both our builds but you get the gratification that I did all my self. Congrats. Looks great.

[Jacob]

Good job. If you have enough clear you can sand and buff out the runs and orange peel. Be careful sanding though!

[j.miller]

Well done brother...looks great. As for the runs. I would let them dry a couple days. When you sand them , check to make sure they are not still "rubbery". If the clear balls up it's not dry. Lots of tricks...from razor blades with rounded corners to little file blocks. Do Not Use those methods. You want to use sand paper wrapped around a straight paint stick cut in half. Only wrap the paper around twice (to many will have to much play in it" You want to start with 800 "wet" and try to stay on top of the runs, sags, drips . Take your time and work them down. Check often by drying and looking. You will be able to see your progress as the run goes away you will start contacting the surface around it. Switch to 1000 wet and take it down flat, then switch to 1500 for final. I know 800 sound heavy but it takes the tops off the run and is less likely to cut the area around it......YA DONE GOOD SON !!! ...da Bat

[RoadRacer]

That looks beautiful! Congratulations

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hey! As Miller said, ya' done good You'll be able to take care of the sags and peel with cut & buff---don't get in a hurry and be careful of the edges. Good job!

Jeff

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks guys. I still have work to do with the runs and orange peel. I will continue on and document that progress as well.

It is a bad idea to assemble the car and then remove the runs/orange peel or do all this work with the body off the car?

[j.miller]

Cut and polish is very messy biz. Off is best. You are going to have lots of water and compound to deal with. When you are done with cut and buff you can undercoat on the buck so everything on the chassis stays clean.

[Svtfreak]

Dude, you're my hero now. And not just a simple color for your first go round! You done good and giving me the cajones to paint my 33 myself and then repaint my cobra myself for next project!

Jeff is right. Cut and buff off the car. Easiest that way, to do and clean up. Plus you can do the backside whatever your heart desires before going on.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Once again, what Professor Mr. The Bat said. Cut & buff is wet and sloppy (I'll stop there and not make any comments like "same way Miller likes his wimmin")---drag it outside to the driveway if you can.

Jeff

[carlewms]

Spectacular Job! I got to print this entire thread and study it over and over again before getting to the painting stage.

Thanks,

Carl

[srobinsonx2]

In all my excitement I forgot to show another problem I had. Despite my best efforts, sweat bands, cooler temps, and no paint suit, I managed to get a drop of sweat in the clear. I didn't get any in the paint but of course it would have to get in the clear and be completely obvious. Here is a picture



I don't know if you can tell very well but the sweat kind of displaced some of the clear and made little low spots. How do I address something like this? I am concerned about just sanding it down like the runs since it might be thin in those low spots. As I stewed over this last night, I think this is what I am most worried about regarding the paint job.

Thanks for all the kind words. I hope this thread will help others out. As you can see, It did not turn out perfect. I hope I can fix most of these and make it presentable. It certainly is alot of work and I still have some to go. It is doable if you have the energy and passion. But it is not for the faint of heart. I have logged about 191 on the bodywork and still need to cut and buff (read remove my clear mistakes).

Any input on the sweat fiasco would be appreciated.

[Jdav]

This thread makes me so happy that there are professionals that can do this for me. Good on you for doing it all yourself, but it looks like a miserable time to me!

[Duke]

You're fine with the sweat drip in the clear. Most of that should sand out. You can always mix up a little clear and dab it into any low spots while wet sanding. Disposable eye droppers are good for mixing small amounts and eastwood has some slick paint touch up q-tips.

If you haven't a done so already, let me add to what others said. Get it outside and let that sucker bake in the sun. Like all day. You don't want that clear to say soft.