#9196 475hp 347 MK4 Roadster Build (Insurance and Plates)

[GoDadGo]

Impressive Number To Say The Least!

You'll Have Plenty Of Power!

[cgundermann]

Chris, If you'll post all of your engine specs I'd be glad to model your build in my software. I was within 10 HP of Brandon's engine before we dyno'd it.

Bob

Thanks Bob, here is the updated specifics:

347 with 10:1 compression & traditional multi-point EFI, Comp Cams roller rocker arms, roller Elgin #E1836P Cam (Adv. Duration: 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC)), Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads w/60 cc combustion chamber, 2.02 SS polished intake & 1.60 exhaust valves, 1.45 diameter valve springs w/7 degree locks, fuel rail & regulator running currently at 39 PSI, Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper & lower EFI intake, 30 pound injectors, 70 mm throttle body & Pro-M Racing 80 mm MAF, Pro-M Racing EFI tuneable computer, wide band innovate MTX-L O2 digital gauge sensors (both sides of the motor I've tuned to almost ideal AFR).

Let me know if you need anything more/thanks again sir!

Chris

[Yama-Bro]

Awesome numbers! Congrats man...your car is going to be a screamer!

[bobl]

Thanks Bob, I'm currently out of state (home Thursday) - but, here is the specifics off the top of my head:

347 with 10:1 compression & traditional multi-point EFI, roller rocker arms, roller mid range cam; low end torque (would have to get home and check the specs exactly for the cam), Edelbrock aluminum heads w/60 cc combustion chamber, 2.02 SS polished intake & 1.60 exhaust valves, 1.45 diameter valve springs w/7 degree locks, fuel rail & regulator running currently at 39 PSI, Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper & lower EFI intake, 30 pound injectors & Pro-M Racing 80 mm throttle body, Pro-M Racing EFI tuneable computer, wide band innovate MTX-L O2 digital gauge sensors (both sides of the motor I've tuned to almost ideal AFR).

Let me know if you need anything more/thanks again sir!

Chris

Chris

Need to know the cam specs (or part number), which Edelbrock cylinder head?

[cgundermann]

Need to know the cam specs (or part number), which Edelbrock cylinder head?

Okie Dokie - I'll shoot those to you Thursday when I'm back in town.

Thanks again Bob,

Chris

[TexasAviator]

Need to know the cam specs (or part number), which Edelbrock cylinder head?

Okie Dokie - I'll shoot those to you Thursday when I'm back in town.

Thanks again Bob,

Chris

Cant wait to see what you come up with CG and bobl. Please share when you all work that out.

[TexasAviator]

Impressive Number To Say The Least!

You'll Have Plenty Of Power!

Awesome numbers! Congrats man...your car is going to be a screamer!

GoDad and Yama,

Thank you both. I cant wait to get it in the car. I think its time to bolt the transmission, bellhousing, clutch, and engine together. I think the install party is going down this weekend.

[TexasAviator]

Congrats on those dyno numbers . . . well done my friend, well done. And the best part is, you did it yourself, without any help from a "Pro builder". Also, I applaud your tube bending skills, you are a master at detail from what I can see in your pictures - great work.

Keep it going and you'll soon be on the road, doin' those [we were at] 70 mph "blasts" (before you know it). That is where the "learning curve" come into play. Your car, like bobl's, will be a monster and will deserve ALL your respect at all times. Close to 500 HP in a 2100# car is pure adrenaline in it's strongest form . . .

Again, congratulations!!

Doc

Thank you for the compliments. I am humbled at this stage of the build. Its been great and I have had a ton of help from so many. I hope I can pay it forward for someone else.

Again, thanks.
Brandon

[KDubU]

Those are some great numbers. It definitely will be fun to drive, congrats!

[bobl]

Brandon, I really enjoyed your visit. Wish we would have had more time. My throat was soar from talking so much. Thanks for talking to my grandson about the Air Force. Hopefully he took something away from that conversation that helps him down the road.

Bob

[TexasAviator]

Those are some great numbers. It definitely will be fun to drive, congrats!

Thx

Brandon, I really enjoyed your visit. Wish we would have had more time. My throat was soar from talking so much. Thanks for talking to my grandson about the Air Force. Hopefully he took something away from that conversation that helps him down the road.

Bob

Appreciate you willingness to reach out to me and help. I saw the 383 Chevy motor you dynoed and saw it made 400 horsepower. So I feel your dyno is very accurate and not overly generous. So happy the engine performed so well. I hope the load we put on the engine was sufficient to test against detonation. We won't know until it's in the car on pump gas.

[TexasAviator]

Engine first start video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOwWbuCQlj0



Tuning the motor to the target AFR. After running the motor a few times it did this on its own with the self tuning software.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4AvOGBX_do


Tuning the motors spark advance. We used 32 and saw a loss in power and increase in torque to the tune of +10tq -10hp per 2 degrees.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKEodh0Vfjc

[cgundermann]

Thanks Bob, here is the updated specifics:

347 with 10:1 compression & traditional multi-point EFI, Comp Cams roller rocker arms, roller Elgin #E1836P Cam (Adv. Duration: 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC)), Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads w/60 cc combustion chamber, 2.02 SS polished intake & 1.60 exhaust valves, 1.45 diameter valve springs w/7 degree locks, fuel rail & regulator running currently at 39 PSI, Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper & lower EFI intake, 30 pound injectors, 70 mm throttle body & Pro-M Racing 80 mm MAF, Pro-M Racing EFI tuneable computer, wide band innovate MTX-L O2 digital gauge sensors (both sides of the motor I've tuned to almost ideal AFR).

Let me know if you need anything more/thanks again sir!

Chris

Updated above/thanks Bob!

[bobl]

Updated above/thanks Bob!

I did a very similar build for user seagull81 earlier this year, so I have a pretty good baseline comparison. His made 440 HP with AFR 185 heads and a comp 282HR cam. He was using the Holley Systemax intake system. I don't know if your intake system is better or worse than his. Substituting your heads, cam and compression I come up with 421 HP at 5700 rpm, 434 ft. lbs. of torque at 4500 rpm. The unknown is the intake you are using. He also had a 70mm throttle body, but not using a MAF since he was using a Megasquirt speed density ECU. I can say that his intake/throttle body system was quite restrictive and was choking the engine above 5500 rpm. With a free flowing intake his engine should have peaked HP at 6200+ rpm, but it quit gaining power at 5500, staying flat until 6000 and then falling off. FYI, these dyno numbers are with all accessories and mufflers in place, so they are a bit more conservative than some dyno tests you read about.

Bob

[cgundermann]

Thanks Bob, the engine builder claims 450 horse & mine should breath better then their dynoed test mule. Appreciate your time!

Thanks again, Chris

[bobl]

Sorry to hijack your thread Brandon. Post some more stuff...

[cgundermann]

He won’t mind, he’s still on cloud nine from his dyno pull!

Chris

[TexasAviator]

C.g. your cam is almost identical to mine!!!

It's going to be a great motor! Post here anytime.

[TexasAviator]

Elgin #E1836P
Adverised 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

Trickflow 51403002
Adverised 286/294, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

Somebody copied the other guys cam. Lol

[cgundermann]

Elgin #E1836P
Adverised 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

Trickflow 51403002
Adverised 286/294, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

Somebody copied the other guys cam. Lol

Well, I love Trickflow products...wasn't familiar with Elgin, but they are darn close...

Thanks Brandon,

Chris

[Jeff Kleiner]

Somebody copied the other guys cam.

My Trick Flow camshaft arrived with a Crane Cams camcard. You do the math...

Jeff

[TexasAviator]

My Trick Flow camshaft arrived with a Crane Cams camcard. You do the math...

Jeff

My trickflow cam came with its own card last year when I started my engine build. They all come from the same grinder some where. I wonder who got to that spec first. I found a forum that was using the TFS 2 in 2001.

[TexasAviator]

Very interesting read. http://www.elgincams.com/history.html

[bobl]

There can be a huge difference between cams that appear to have the same specs. That's why it's wise to buy a proven cam that you know will get the results you want, or have a professional design a custom grind for you. You generally only see advertised duration which may not even be measured the same from different companies, and .050 duration which is a more consistent way to compare cams. What you don't know is how aggressive the lobe is. One cam may have much more duration at higher lifts than another of the same specs, thus making much more power. I know it's pretty easy to just copy the lobe of another cam. A lot of companies do that. I once had a cam I really liked in an MG race car that broke. I took a stock cam and the pieces to a company in Dallas and they reground that cam using the pieces as a profile.

Bob

[cgundermann]

Very interesting read. http://www.elgincams.com/history.html

Yes, very good read...

Feel better about mine, but - to Bob's point, interesting to see what a dyno would show.

Chris

[bobl]

A bit more camshaft trivia. Comp Cams measures their cams at .006 lift to determine advertised duration. Crane, TFS and many others use a measurement taken at .004 lift. So, you cannot compare these cams directly. The specs for the TFS cam would be approximately 278/286 if measured the same way Comp measures their cams.
Bob

[bobl]

Brandon, just discovered the TFS stage 2 cam is actually a Crane grind, HR-224/339-2S-12.

[TexasAviator]

Brandon, just discovered the TFS stage 2 cam is actually a Crane grind, HR-224/339-2S-12.

Thanks. The tfs cam is half the price of the crane version. Great cams btw.

[TexasAviator]

Phase 1 of the engine install is happening this week. I have to pick up some bolts, apparently the flywheel bolts I have are a bit different than stock. I will pick up some grade 8 unless you all have a better recommendation. I also need some flange bolts for the bell housing to the block. I love Fastenal, they are nearby and cant wait to run by there tomorrow. I installed the flywheel with fresh ford crank to flywheel bolts and used some red loctite. Torqued to 70 ft lbs then finished them of at 85 ft lbs.

I cleaned the the flywheel surface to remove any residual dirt and packing grease. I then moved onto the transmission. I installed the bell housing with stock Ford flange bolts. I packed the pilot bearing with high temp red grease in the engine. Installed the pivot bolt, throwout bearing, and the fork. Checked it for play on the brand new input shaft and the bearing retainer.

I know many of you use brand new parts but I have not in some cases. If I can... I rebuild them, refresh them, clean them, or replace them when necessary. My entire drive train install consists of new and refreshed parts. They are checked and rechecked for form and function. I adhere to a built not bought policy on many parts.

New parts installed:
Ford heavy duty fork
Ford Pivot bolt
Throwout bearing
Pilot bearing
Rebuilt T5 with T5Z gear set, cobra bearing pack input shaft conversion, electronic speedo, carbon fiber blocker rings/syncro, 5 speed and reverse stop blocks gets rid of grinding gears, smooth top case cover, 2000 mustang rear housing with electronic tone ring conversion, and much more
King Cobra Korea made clutch kit
sfi rpm billet flywheel 28oz
all flywheel bolts
trans to block bolts

Used parts
Bell housing
Fox PRO 5.0 billet, center sprung, short shifter
bell housing bolts
dust shield

All said and done I have about 1000 into my t5z, 200 in my clutch kit, everything was pulled from my foxbody with about 5500 into my engine after the fox partout. Or about 7000 into my entire 475 horsepower drivetrain. Building, reparing, refreshing, and replacing only necessary parts got me into a very healthy drivetrain for very little cash.




20171211_214832 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171211_214406 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171211_214753 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


20171211_214332 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr

[Mark Eaton]

Brandon, I have been admiring your build thread, your engine is awesome. You are working hard on it and it shows. I am envious and have considered building an engine myself. I rebuilt one back in college in the 1980's. At this point in my life though, time is my most expensive commodity and i think building my own engine would dwindle that commodity. Keep posting!

Mark

[TexasAviator]

Brandon, I have been admiring your build thread, your engine is awesome. You are working hard on it and it shows. I am envious and have considered building an engine myself. I rebuilt one back in college in the 1980's. At this point in my life though, time is my most expensive commodity and i think building my own engine would dwindle that commodity. Keep posting!

Mark

Thanks Mark. I feel the same way about bigger budget, irs, builds. I have little time but a strong desire to wrench. Balance is key to work, family, and car. Appreciate your build as well.

[TexasAviator]

The work continued today. I bought dozens of grade 8 fasteners and washers from Fastenal today. Cost? 3.50 !!!!! I have spent less on hardware than most places charge for shipping. Dont buy bolts for your engine from vendors, LMR, or american muscle. Those guys want 50+ dollars for 3 bucks worth of bolts. Did the same thing on my water pump and accessories drive bolts. Anyway...

engine install: The clutch kit is the Korea Made Valeo unit. If its not made in Korea its not the true Ford Performance parts clutch kit. Its a good sign of the right unit. It also has the 5 spring dampening and is clearly stamped on the kit in several places. Great fit, high quality, great clutch pedal feel, and 440 lb ft of torque in a light car. It also will probably give a bit before it trashed my T5Z so using a fancy clutch in this package is not really necessary IMHO. I also used grade 8 hardware here. Its secured using lock washers and red loctite. Then torqued to 35 ft lbs. These bolts are way better quality than the ones I removed from the donor car. They are not just pretty but quality hardware from Fastenal. These are the same bolts bought around here to be used on oil rigs and thousands of windmill farms here in Texas.











Install complete.







Installed the hi torque starter, same pretty much with all stores these days. 100ish bucks for a mini starter. This one is form LMR.com and is the same unit bobl used on his shop engines. Its the NAPA part.



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[cgundermann]

Looking good; you are really trucking along! You going to wire up your mini-starter directly or still use the remote solenoid? I went back & forth (lots of info/opinions on the forum), but in the end - went with a remote solenoid....which also served as a minibus.

Chris

[TexasAviator]

Looking good; you are really trucking along! You going to wire up your mini-starter directly or still use the remote solenoid? I went back & forth (lots of info/opinions on the forum), but in the end - went with a remote solenoid....which also served as a minibus.

Chris

I have a solenoid but haven't made a decision on that yet. Probably will go directly to the starter since the fitech is self contained and I can run a distribution block for other key on accessories.

[TexasAviator]

engine install phase 2, in no particular order cause flickr makes things hard.

[TexasAviator]

[TexasAviator]

[TexasAviator]

[TexasAviator]

And finally...


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[GoDadGo]

One Small Step For Man, One Giant Leap For Your Build!

Congrats Texas, Congrats!