JJ's 818s Build

[nkw8181]

Woohoo! Now get those aluminum panels installed

[TouchStone]

Yes I've been putting off some of my build until it got registered.

Remaining items:

• Finish aluminum panels, front and rear wheel wells
• Rear mesh
• Replace seats
• finish center console
• Interior carpet
• Paint/vinyl wrap
• Diagnose engine squeak - sounds like its related to the idle air control valve

[Sdrawkcab]

Very cool! Congrats on the TX registration.

(Nolan -- a couple weeks ago, enjoy seeing your car at Auto Science. Very nice.)

[nkw8181]

Thanks sdrawkcab! Hey Josh did you get your lights to shoot straight of do they still shoot down?

[TouchStone]

Thanks sdrawkcab! Hey Josh did you get your lights to shoot straight of do they still shoot down?

I haven't adjusted them.

[TouchStone]

Last weekend autocross runs.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Joshua,
Look like you were having lots of fun. Getting faster also.
I noticed you didn't have to much body roll. What springs and sway bar are you running?
Bob

[TouchStone]

Hey Joshua,
Look like you were having lots of fun. Getting faster also.
I noticed you didn't have to much body roll. What springs and sway bar are you running?
Bob

I've got the stock 818s springs in the front #350 and #550 in the rear, with the donor sway sway bar.

Another racer helped me adjust tire pressures between run 2 and 3, just a couple pounds of pressure makes a ton of difference.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I've got the stock 818s springs in the front (i think #275) and #550 in the rear, with the donor sway sway bar.

Another racer helped me adjust tire pressures between run 2 and 3, just a couple pounds of pressure makes a ton of difference.

Josh
can you double check the springs. The 818s stock are 350 front and 275 rears.
Bob

[TouchStone]

Its #350 in the front

[TouchStone]

I'm definitely going backwards at this point. My FFR fuel tank leaks around the fuel pick up so I'm trying to fix it with Seal All.

Other than that my goals for the next 2 weeks are:

• Interior Aluminum
• Upholstery and Carpet
• 5-point harness
• New Seats
• Sound System

So far I've pulled the old seats out and cut to fit the center console.

[billjr212]

Many (including myself) have had the fuel leak issue. Suggest you save yourself the headache and switch to the proper o rings while you have easy access. Solved my fuel leak issue.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post214070

[TouchStone]

Many (including myself) have had the fuel leak issue. Suggest you save yourself the headache and switch to the proper o rings while you have easy access. Solved my fuel leak issue.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post214070

I didn't realize there was an actual solution in that thread other than "replace the tank". I got a couple of those O-rings but I'm sort of committed with the Seal All for now. I'll see how well it hold up.

[TouchStone]

Installed engine cover hinge from replica parts and fitted a gas spring to hold it open. The single spring holds the cover no problem but I'm going to add a second to improve the feel and help keep it from shutting too hard. The bracket angles look weird because they are.







Also, installing speakers.

[Frank818]

Nice gas spring! Will keep that in mind if I decided to do the same.

[nkw8181]

Very nicely done. (Now to copy)

[TouchStone]

I lowered my tire pressures from 35 to 22 psi for this run. Which gave me a lot more control in the corners. In the fourth run I experienced a loss of power during the straights and now my fuel pump makes a ton of noise and is audible over the running engine. Dropped out of the afternoon heat to make sure I could still get home without a tow truck.

[Hindsight]

Looks and sounds very nice! How full was your tank?

[TouchStone]

Looks and sounds very nice! How full was your tank?

Today it was full. I actually noticed the power-loss the day before and the fuel level was my first thought. The sender was reading 3/8 full so assuming this actually means its empty I immediately filled it up and the problem went away until today. I'm guessing it broke yesterday (either spontaneously or due to starvation) and is quickly getting worse.

[Hindsight]

I wonder if it's the pump itself or an issue with the hose that attaches to the pump inside the tank.... keep us posted. Glad you quit once it started doing that.

[STiPWRD]

Which pump are you running? I've been thinking about picking up Holley's Hydramat to prevent any fuel starvation issues. The autocross runs looked great btw!

[TouchStone]

Walbro 342

The hydraMat looks promising, would be much cheaper than a surge tank.

For a surge tank install how is the pickup pump protected during fuel starvation? I don't see the point if the pickup can be easily damaged as well.

[Mechie3]

Are you worried about the pump overheating or cavitation?

[TouchStone]

Are you worried about the pump overheating or cavitation?

My best guess is that the pump overheats very quickly without constant fuel. Cavitation occurs when the pump is running too hard or the lines are too restrictive, right?

Mainly I don't want the pump/s or engine to be exposed to any conditions that can cause damage.

[STiPWRD]

Cavitation is when the pump is sucking up intermittent air bubbles and fuel. This causes a lot of stress on the pump blades as the mass of liquid fuel between air bubbles hits the pump blades and pulsates. I'm not sure if this is the leading cause of pump damage or the overheating.

[Hindsight]

With a full or nearly full tank, I'm wondering how the fuel pump pickup could even come into play.

[TouchStone]

With a full or nearly full tank, I'm wondering how the fuel pump pickup could even come into play.

I'm thinking the main damage occurred the day before when the sender was reading ~3/8 full in the older FFR tank. This was when I first noticed the problem. I then immediately filled the tank and didn't have the issue again until the next day.

[TouchStone]

I've decided to replace everything about the FFR fuel tank. New tank, pump and sender. So I pulled the old tank out and found a couple of interesting things. First, the tank was leaking from the sender location as suspected even with "seal all" liberally applied. I also did the following test: I drained the fuel tank before removing from the car by connecting the fuel pump to 12v and feeding the return line into a spare fuel tank. I ran this until the pump began picking up air. Then pulled the tank and measured the remaining fuel volume. I had about 1.7 gallons still in the tank! I assume you would need at least double this to cover the pump inlet adequately for driving and more if you want to race.


Tank removed. Had to disconnect the wiring harness from the engine to get the tank out easily. A bulkhead connector at the rear firewall would have been nice in hindsight.


Fuel left in tank after the EFI pump started picking up air. About 1.7 gallons.


Looks like the fuel pump bag filter was folded and only a small portion of the filter was used. I should have also washed out the inside of the tank. Hopefully the fuel filter caught anything that could damage the injectors.


As a bonus this guy need to add more blinker fluid, looks low to me.

[Frank818]

Looks crap your filter! I tested 35L, I am currently testing 35L in the tank, so far so good, but I had to put A LOT of fuel sealant around the fuel filler tube and use 4 clamps, one is a t-bolt. I am just over the sender hole level and with the sealant I put there a year ago it seems ok. What sealant are (were) you using?

[TouchStone]

I used "Seal All" http://www.amazon.com/Seal-All-38001.../dp/B0000AXYZG, it says its fuel resistant. I looks like it may have reacted with the powder coating a bit, caused the powder coat to de-laminate and leak underneath it. I'm replacing all the fuel filters.

[TouchStone]

Did some welding...Its actually the first welding I've done directly to the frame.

[Hindsight]

Looks good... it is a real pain welding in that spot.

[TouchStone]

Anyone have issues with the FFR powdercoat? I went to strip off a section of powder-coating to weld on an additional bracket to my frame and shortly after I began sanding the powder-coating flaked off to reveal rusty metal. I hope this was the only spot they missed when cleaning the metal.

[07FIREBLADE]

Its a common issue with ffr powdercoat. I have a few spots that flaked off when I first got the car and most recently right in front of the passenger seat cross bar. I got the $10k kit car comment and its only was a $400 option I believe...

[Mechie3]

Its a common issue with ffr powdercoat. I have a few spots that flaked off when I first got the car and most recently right in front of the passenger seat cross bar. I got the $10k kit car comment and its only was a $400 option I believe...

IMO, cost should dictate performance and features, not a lack of quality.

[RM1SepEx]

IMO, cost should dictate performance and features, not a lack of quality.

couldn't agree more, I'd never order it again based on my experience

[TouchStone]

Its a common issue with ffr powdercoat. I have a few spots that flaked off when I first got the car and most recently right in front of the passenger seat cross bar. I got the $10k kit car comment and its only was a $400 option I believe...

That's the same location I found the rust.

The $10K kit comment is not valid since FFR offer this same powdercoat option on all of their kits. According to FFR video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwLkvBB4RBE the powder coat will last decades and they can offer it so cheaply because they only offer a single color. I don't think FFR applys the powdercoat in house but that doesn't mean they can't increase quality control requirements on their CM. Especially if this is happening more often than not. What bother me most is that the powdercoat will cover up and mask any poor quality work, "What you don't know won't hurt you" right?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What bother me most is that the powdercoat will cover up and mask any poor quality work, "What you don't know won't hurt you" right?

I disagree with your statement here.
I suspect about 25% (WAG) of frames ship without powder.
The welding guys don't know if it is getting powder or not.
I got both of mine bare because I wanted a different color.
A few very experienced welders looked a my frame and had no problems with the welding.
A single layer powder coat cost me $800 locally.

Form the comment I've heard on here over the years. The comments on bad powder have decreased significantly since the beginning of the 818. I suspect FFR has either implemented a better quality plan for their vendor or their own in house.
Bob

[Frank818]

I have #181 and my powder coat is really good. There's virtually nothing I have against it. In fact, I have more against the fact that all the welding splatters have not been ground off rather than bad powder coat itself. Nowhere on mine I have seen flakes, except if I accidentally remove powder coat to the bare metal, then yes there are some areas (mostly the brackets in the back) that tend to flake off. POR15 takes care of it.

[TouchStone]

I disagree with your statement here.
I suspect about 25% (WAG) of frames ship without powder.
The welding guys don't know if it is getting powder or not.
I got both of mine bare because I wanted a different color.
A few very experienced welders looked a my frame and had no problems with the welding.
A single layer powder coat cost me $800 locally.

Form the comment I've heard on here over the years. The comments on bad powder have decreased significantly since the beginning of the 818. I suspect FFR has either implemented a better quality plan for their vendor or their own in house.
Bob

I'm not saying the welding is bad in fact it looks really good. What I mean to say is that the powdercoat will cover up poorly cleaned metal.

I'm just disappointed at all the little things that have added up related to the powdercoat. On delivery there was a large scuffed area on the roll bar. Welding splatter is sharp and detracts from the look. Now finding rust under the powdercoat.

It basically adds up to the fact that I should have had the powdercoat applied locally.