List of essential modifications

[chopthebass]

Hi Guys,

This is my first thread on this great forum!

I am in the planning stages of a FFR Roadster and I am just costing things up and deciding on spec.

I see from the numerous threads that everone personalizes or changes things here and there, but what I would like is an idea of the 'essential' things that must be done. For example I see a lot of people widen the footwell because they might have big feet, or drop the drivers floor because they are tall. I am 6'2 so maybe I have to do these.

My proposal is Ford Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. That's all I have determined right now. If anyone has experience using this engine I would love to hear of any other things that HAVE to be allowed for either when ordering, or in construction.

I wonder how it will perform with the Coyote?

Thanks you.

[68GT500MAN]

First off, welcome to the forum. I am neither tall or have big feet, so I can't answer those questions for you. The red roadster that Dave Smith drives IS coyote powered and he won the road race shootout at last years Huntington Beach get-together, so yes it is a great performing package. Like you say, each build is different so what I "must have" will not be the same as yours. Enjoy your build.
Doug

[Gumball]

Welcome!

I second Doug's comment about not all must haves being the same for everyone. The good news is that you're in the stage that a friend of mine calls the 80% - that's the time when you have 80% of the fun and it doesn't cost anything... just a bunch of day dreaming and planning. During that time, try to envision the car as best as you can, with you driving down the road. What does it look like? What features does it have? What doesn't it have? What color is it? Where are you going... car show? cruise? race track? Answers to all those questions will help you decide what your "must have" mods are. That said, mine can be found at ffcars.com in the Modifications for Originality thread....

[Slider]

We finished our Coyote powered roadster in June of this year. 1 year from delivery to licensing, and it performs beautifully. you won't be disappointed. FF didn't really have the finishing touches on the Coyote kit when I ordered, so there was some learning along the way. But the two things related to the Coyote that you will need to figure out are 1) headers, and then how you will address some of the issues about having the Coyote in a Non-Mustang car. By that I mean that many people have experienced stalling (due to the lack of a speed sensor) and some other performance issues. There is a company that has a standard tune that several people have used, or others (myself included) have found local tuners to address. Other than those things, as everyone else is indicating, the "essential" items are all up to you. For example, I considered finding something to cover the pipes essential (to protect from burns) as I have 2 young kids who ride with me who I wanted to make sure didn't get "Snake Bit". But many don't do that. You have determined that IRS is essential, and I chose not to. Neither is wrong, just your choice! I live in the upper midwest, so seat heaters and a conventional heater were requirements for me, as it extends my driving season by about 60 days. those who live in the South, probably don't think those are essential items...Have fun, enjoy it, and know that you've made a great choice in the Coyote and the FF Roadster. And don't let what other people have done make you feel like you need to do them as well. Just look at others for inspiration, and pick the ones you think make the most sense for you and your car!

[chopthebass]

Thanks!
I had heard something about the stalling due to air intake or something. Didn't know about the header issue.
Just heard that FFR no longer sell the IRS assembly as Ford have discontinued the new parts. I really dodn't want to go down the donor route so I am wondering if other options are available for e new IRS set up.

[chopthebass]

Hey slider, when you had your headers made do you know if the company made a template so they could be repeated?

[Slider]

Absolutely... The company is called Stainless Headers based out of Fargo, ND. From what I've heard, they've sold more than 20 sets since mine and everyone seems thrilled with them. They are works of art, and the way they fabricated them, I can even get to the header bolts without too much difficulty, which once you see the Coyote in the engine compartment, you will be very grateful for. PM me if you want more particulars or contact info... I've posted several photo's of the headers in other posts, but glad to share any detail you'd like as the headers were one of my biggest worries (didn't like the j-pipe option due to the radical angles being used) and are now one of the things I'm most impressed by on the car!

[MPTech]

You need to get up close & personal with a couple roadsters to decide what you'll want.
If you know someone that has one, particularly a Factory Five and even more specifically, a mk4.
If you don't know someone, or haven't riden in one, join a club and get to know them well!

Here's my build plan.
MPTech Build Plan

I suggest you start writing down and documenting all of your ideas and wants, then prioritizing and see what will work for you to make you happy.

Modifications are difficult to define too. Do you call 2 roll-bars a mod? Are high-backs a mod or a choice?
And then some items are going to be VERY controversial: I like my Power Steering and Power Brakes, so I consider those an essential mod.

so, some of my favorite mods:

• as already stated: Power Steering & Brakes
• expanded passenger footbox (this is be an issue with the Coyote, but I personally think the stock fb is too small)
• radiator fan shroud
• Breeze battery box (up-front)
• glove box (with fuse panel in glove box)
• T5 mid-shift w/MGW Short-throw shifter (may not be applicable with Coyote)
• Breeze stainless-steel 1 3/4" dual roll-bars (shorter and angeld too)
• trunk drop-box
• rectangular / Led tail-lights
• center speedo
• Speedhut custom guages w/GPS speedo
• IRS w/aluminum pumpkin & 3.55 Trac-loc rear-end (love it!)
• 5-lug / 4-wheel disc brakes (is this still considered a mod??)
• Russ Thompson Throttle Pedal (must have! but maybe not with Coyote)
• Russ Thompson brake and clutch pedal covers
• Russ Thompson dead pedal
• '65 Mustang ignition, lights, and heater knobs
• under-dash filler panel
• heated high-back seats
• fuel shut-off
• Cobra steering wheel center cap
• headers heat shields
• rear bulk-head shelf
• body under-coating

some are big mods, some small

Hope this helps!

Mine's still in gel-coat but I had a blast driving it this summer and put almost 4,500 miles on it.
I'm taking the body off in the next week or so to finish up some winter work, to prepare for paint in the spring!

[Bob Cowan]

No mods are "necessary", but some are better than others.

The complete kit and the donor route both provide you with an excellent car that will look and perform unlike anything you've ever owned before. For general street duty, you really don't need to add anything. But, as car guys, we just can't leave wel enough alone. So we do all kinds of little mods for one reason or another.

There are a couple of small things I think are essential for street duty. But this is just my opinion:
- high back seats. They are MUCH more comfortable than low backs, and there's a huge safety factor involved. They are not that expensive.
- Wind wings and visors. Decreases wind turbulance in the cockpit. On a long drive you'll appreciate that.
- Cup holders of some kind. I like to drink coffee while I drive. I got mine from Cobra Earl.
- Foot box vents. A slight improvement on a hot day, but not dramatic.
- Dropped trunk floor. My wife and I like to take week end, and occasional week long, Cobra trips. That dropped trunk floor makes packing a LOT easier. We have no trouble packing in what we need.

If you're going racing, there's a long list of necessary improvements to the basic kit.

[2bking]

I may be going down the same road as you but somewhat ahead. My build is the MK4 with Coyote, TKO 600 with mid shift, and IRS. I have power steering but not brakes as the consensus seem that they were not needed with the Wilwood brake upgrade. I made a sheet metal change to get back the DS foot box room that the modular sheet metal took away and seem to have plenty of foot room now. The MK4 DS foot box floor is already under the tubes so that mod is not needed unless you are taking seat too. I bought all the IRS parts new from Ford Racing that were needed to complete it about six months ago but if they are not available now Breeze of Forte's may have them. If you search for my build thread you'll find lots of pictures.

[chopthebass]

Hey guys, thanks for all the useful advice. especially MPTech!

By the way was is a mid-shift on a transmission?

[2bking]

It places the shift leaver farther up the console (and transmission) so it doesn't have to be bent forward like the original Cobras to get your hand on it.

[MPTech]

Trans with mid-shift: moving the shifter location forward from the original location.
On a T5 transmission, you can replace the tailshaft with one from an S-10.
I don't think a T5 will work on a Coyote, but some trans have other options for re-locating them.

If you look at my picture, it was moved forward about 6 - 8". The back of the shifter is now where the front of the old shifter was.
With the MGW short shifter, it's about 5" tall and very smooth / positive shifting.


I would suggest to write down what your goals are for your build first, then your options & mods can be prioritized or eliminated based on the theme.
For example, a street car with modern drivetrain, might be a Coyote, with a 6-speed, IRS, power-steering, and ABS / Traction control and big brakes.
Or a raw auto-cross beast, with lots of torque, manual steering and brakes, racing seats, 5-link rear-end, sway-bar in the front.

I think the Coyote is really cool looking, but there are compromises. It is HUGE and you will lose Driver and Passenger footbox room. And the engine compartment gets really tight. You also lose some of the vintage sound of a push-rod motor.

Good Luck! Planning your build is almost as much fun as building it. (but nothing beats DRIVING it!)

[MPTech]

Ran across this on the other forum (you do know about it, right?). You can make a Coyote sound lopey with a Ghost tune.

Coyote vs SBF vs Terminator

[MPTech]

[2bking]

Can't wait to hear that sound out of mine.

[Jester]

I recently completed a MK4 (Moser rear, 3-link, manual brakes and manual steering, Coyote, TKO600, install as per FFR Coyote instructions). Mainly weekend driver – limited track time requirement (if any) – currently in for paint. Your requirements will dictate your build.

After ~2300mi: if I were to build another roadster I would consider IRS and a 6 speed trans (need to confirm top gear is lower than TKO 600) – IRS for better ride and 6 speed for less db’s at highway speeds. I really like the feel of the manual brakes and manual steering. I spoke with Dave Smith before/while ordering and he recommended to build as designed and drive with manual brakes and steering first before changing anything as changes are not necessary – and he is correct – drives fantastic and the Coyote is very tame and responsive when needed. I did purchase a power steering rack but have not installed yet and may not install – possibly as time marches on I may decide to install the power steering. For the initial build and certification, the manual steering is much less complicated (nothing can leak).

Must have mods / parts for Coyote install (IMHO):
• Custom DS foot box mods to allow for additional gas pedal side foot clearance regardless of foot size (I added ~ 1 3/4”) and a mod for added clearance for the DS engine head (I added ~ 1” for clearance).
• Clutch and bell housing (as per FFR specs)
• Low profile oil pan (as per FFR specs) with relocated plumbing (as per FFR specs)
• Engine mount spacer plates (3/4-1” aluminum) to raise engine (custom)
• Trans spacer plate (aluminum) to raise trans for proper shifter height and modified A-Frame trans mount (although I believe FFR provides a solution to the A Frame)
• ECU / control pack from FRPP – as well as Ron Francis harness
• In-tank gas pump (refer to FFR for specs) and fuel pressure regulator (FFR for specs)
• Custom intake (as per FFR specs)
• powder coated frame (from FFR)
• neoprene floor jack-stand covers (will not scratch the frame)
• FRPP cooling system lines and reservoir tank (you could use aftermarket parts but easiest with FRPP coyote parts)
• Side exhaust heat shields (I went with polished stainless shields – even still a person burned his leg on the exhaust where it exits the body – good thing it was not my wife or she would never get in it again)

Nice to have mods / parts / accessories to consider (as per my build):
• Removable trans tunnel top for servicing trans etc (custom)
• Custom passenger side foot box mod – this foot box can be extended and widened – I added ~ 2 inches width to the engine side of the PS foot box – Next time I will also extent the foot box to match the length of the driver’s side.
• Access panels on DS foot box (engine compartment side) installed with riv-nuts for removal and future access to wiring and master cylinders (custom)
• Heater / defroster (for northern regions) – I don’t think AC is necessary for an open top roadster
• Cooling vents / ducts and fans for driver and passenger side (nice creature comfort)
• Windshield wipers
• body cut-outs from the factory (FRR option)
• Reverse light (off new Mini Cooper) – aftermarket supplier
• 13inch brakes all around – I have manual brakes and there is no issue with stopping
• Ron Francis wiring harness
• Master emergency electrical cut-off switch
• Weather-pack electrical connectors (and crimping tool) for all exterior light connections
• Russ Thompson turn signal
• Replaced the clock with oil temp gauge
• CNC remote aluminum brake reservoirs (replaces stock plastic reservoirs)
• Braided fuel lines off hard lines (summit racing)
• Interior and trunk LED and switch (night lights) from FFR
• Killer stereo & amp (4 speakers)
• Trunk strut kit to prop up the trunk lid (fantastic addition – very well designed (from Michael Everson)
• Kool Mat interior insulation (koolmat.com)
• stock Mustang emergency brake handle (not period correct but more functional)
• drop battery box - trunk for more space
• Stone guard undercoat on body before final paint and installation
• Upgraded aluminum side louvers (finish line)
• Seat belt bezels (from Michael Everson)
• Door interior panels (finish line)
• Front license plate bracket – aluminum (finish line)
• Power steering - I am still considering this and can be done after the car is complete
• Wind wings and visors (FFR)
• bumpers and dual chrome roll bars
• Killer Paint combo – makes your project even more personal
• IRS & 6 speed trans (next build)

Good Luck

[chopthebass]

Great thanks Jester & MPtech,
I will definitely be speaking to you again about some of your mods.
I can not find a supplier for an IRS. I am in Canada and Al Beix at Western Canada Cobras does all the importing of the kits and he advises me that the parts are now obselete and FFR no longer supply the option (although it is still on their site). I relly don't want to do the donor route because I don't know whay I am buying and don't even know if I can get a donor in Canada. I really wante new parts! Can I get a Moser 3-link rear new from someone?

[Jester]

I suggest you make a few more enquiries re the IRS as I really wish I had IRS with a 6 speed. I would not have any issues with a used/rebuilt IRS unit as if it is rebuilt - it will be essentially new.

Take your time and enjoy the process.

I am in the GTA - where are you located?

[MPTech]

If you really want want an IRS, order the frame option from FFR and source the parts yourself. It's not that hard, just takes a little time and research, but I'm very glad I did it and I love my IRS.
FFR will customize the chassis for the IRS / pumpkin and FFR supplies the half-shafts.
Everything else, I watched the FFCars sale forum and bought everything I needed from forum members.

• bought a Lincoln Mark VIII aluminum pumpkin and had a friend bead-blast it and powder coat it.
• picked up a brand-new set of 3.55 gears and Timkin bearings, and a Ford Trac-loc from another member, then took everything to a trans / rear-end guy and had him assemble it to spec.
• bought a set of '95 T-Bird rear knuckles that had just been completely rebuilt with all brand-new parts / OEM bearings / VPM Poly Bushings and the hubs were re-drilled with new studs, with '92 Lincoln Mark VII rear disc brake calipers, but turned them in as cores for a new/re-manufactured set.
• also installed the Fortes aluminum IRS mounts (come highly recommended from the forum members!)
• installed a new set of rotors and Hawk HPS brake Pads (#580F.627.5618R)
• and finished off the brakes with a set of braided Stainless Steel lines from Mike Fortes as well

The only "donor" stuff was the pumpkin and the knuckles. There's nothing to wear-out there and they were stripped and powder-coated, better than new!

Like I said, I did some research and hunting, but everything is available, these are all common parts.


FYI, I don't know if you can run a 6-speed trans and a straight axle, due to the extended length of the trans and movement of the rear-end.
but, if you decide not to go with the IRS, I've heard the 5-link is awesome!

so, tell us what you're envisioning.

[Gumball]

I didn't want to hijack your thread with my full list, so I posted a separate thread that covers most of the mods, additions, and changes I made to my Mk3. It captures most of the changes, but I'm sure there are some that I left off my running list. Hope that helps!

[Jester]

At some point I will likely source the IRS components as per MPTech's list and order the IRS mod from FFR and install my self (in a few years). It depends on how beaten up I get with the solid axel / 3 link. The solid axel is not too forgiving on poor pavement - really made for the track.

[tirod]

Look very carefully at the lists above and you see one significant trend: they don't use donor parts from a 94 Mustang.

That avoids complications in the following areas:

Steering Inclination Angle - the line of pivoting thru the ball joints. Use the F5 tubular control arms and optional spindle, it returns the SAI back to factory specs, and you likely won't need power steering as much, if at all.

Brake Bias - donor brakes could be used, but the important point is to not use small rear calipers at all. Use equally large dual piston calipers on the rear, too, which is what the Vette's and Vipers do to get balanced braking without the workarounds. Adding a dual master cylinder setup allows even more precise adjustment, and using a high leverage manual braking pedal means you get the correct ratio in the linkage.

Headers: most engines will show improved hp results with a quality set of headers designed with the proper merges and a muffler core sized to handle the actual CFM's. Merges should be at 25 degrees or less with no internal edges or obstructions, and a bend radius more than 6", even at the heads. If they exit the side and terminate at the back wheel, tho, they will be loud enough to damage hearing regardless.

CNC billet pulley sets - avoid underdrive pulley systems, they just spin the alternator and water pump more slowly at cruising speeds which contributes to running those systems much closer to their design limits. It's a 6 hp difference, synthetic oil offers the same advantage without running the battery dead or causing the motor to run hot. Aluminum block motors are much more prone to internal damage if overheated - the aluminum softens around threaded fasteners and you can't get head bolts, mains, etc to pull up to torque, they just keep pulling out. It's the #1 reason you see aluminum motors that have blown a head gasket from overheating keep blowing gaskets.

Transmissions - there are other transmissions available from makers besides Tremec, but not for the low prices. Richmond (Doug Nash,) and Keisler (Liberty Gear,) are two others. They are affordable when the build is put in the perspective of having components come before bling - dress up parts for the motor and a high end paint job can easily push the budget further than the cost of a transmission.

Plumbing - AN fittings and hoses were originally aircraft specification and tagged for flight, most of it available on the hot rod market is not. A significant amount is made offshore. It's not in stock at the local auto parts house. It's functional for brake and oil lines, it's no longer recommended for fuel. Use the new kevlar braided teflon lined hose for fuel to ensure it won't break down and fill the system with powdered rubber. The cause of this change is the use of alcohol and additives in fuel for emissions purposes these days. The light aircraft makers switched over years ago, and so has the racing community, the street rodders are just now catching on. The auto parts houses now sell the new teflonized rubber hose, which isn't cheap. But, it won't fail like the old hose and burn your hot rod to the ground.

Electrical - another area to avoid the donor harness. They are now almost 20 years old, and most cars are junked these days because of electrical glitches, not the motor. The wiring harness in cars ranks at the bottom of the transportation group, the average bass boat has better. Wire allowed to soak up moisture will transmit it thru out the entire harness by capillary action, corroding the bare copper conductors under the thin jackets. As they age, the can develop enough voltage drop to exceed the signal sent by a sensor to an ECU, which really messes with tuning and getting a car to run right. Sensors send signals in the tenths of a volt, corrosion can create that much drop per foot in older harnesses. It's why flood damaged cars are supposed to be illegal to resell. Many run a new wire harness to avoid the entanglements of all the unnecessary circuits, and the new CAN bus controllers have been around long enough to prove themselves - a controller box with two or three power distribution boxes, connected by a simple comm cable can eliminate up to 50% of the wiring and labor installing it. Plus, it's dirt simple to diagnose, too. With tinned wire and disconnects rated for racing use, the wire harness will last for decades and not fall apart when repaired.

As you can see, this isn't a list of "My Favorite Brand." That's up to the builder, and the hot rod catalogs are full of stuff to decorate his car with. It doesn't mean the parts will work together correctly tho, as I have attempted to describe. It's all too easy to look at a kit build as a collection of parts that reflects the owner's pride in craftsmanship (or credit card limit,) but the reality is that a lot of them need sorting out after completion, and those parts are why we have a For Sale area - they didn't dynamically fit the intent of the machine's purpose, they worked against it.

Goes to: define exactly what the car needs to do - show, tour, track, or just be fun. Once that performance level is described - exactly - then you know what parts and where to spend money. A track car with a show car finish isn't going to be a happy combination when the $12,000 paint job gets rubbed on the circuit against concrete or stuffed into haybales, and a show car with $12,000 endurance racing motor looks exactly the same if you screw all that stuff onto a stock rebuilt block. With a nice mild cam it would be easier to drive around town, too. Pick your parts in light of the final intent, and things fall together. Pick them by what looks cool in the catalogs and you might wind up selling them for half on the internet, tho. It's why now is the best time to decide, once the build is moving then you don't have to make new choices, you've scienced it out before hand and know it will work together.

If there is one principle to keep in mind - factory parts were designed for long term durability and safety, race car parts trade that off for a narrow improvement in peak performance, at a much higher cost. If it's race car, make sure all the factors are included in the choice, like sourcing replacements on the road, or even adding in the cost of shipping vs picking them up locally.

[chopthebass]

Thanks Tirod & Gumball.

Jester,
I am in Calgary. I really know nothing about rear ends so the thought of sourcing the right stuff scares me - although I like the idea of saving some cash. I would pay someone to source the parts and send me the finished part ready to bolt on! I love the sound of what MPTech has done, but I don't have the knowledge.

[MPTech]

chopthebass
Don't be intimidated. I was a newb a couple years ago, and now I'm driving something I designed and assembled (I still can't believe it! and neither can my friends! I'm a Telecommunications Software Project Manager for gods sake!)
if you want an IRS, go for it. I didn't have the knowledge when I started either. I asked questions and read LOTS of posts.
(that's why I started my build plan and documented everything, I had pages of notes).
If you can't find something (no need to buy a whole donor rear-end and dis-assemble), post a WTB (Want To Buy) and ask, I'm 99% sure you'll get it! Plenty of folks to help out here and the other forum.

I summarized exactly what you need. If you get these parts, you will have everything to put together your IRS.

• Lincoln Mark VIII aluminum pumpkin (you can also use a T-Bird, but they are heavier)
• set of 3.55 gears, Timkin bearings, and a Ford Trac-loc (there are also after market Posi rearends that will work too)
• set of '95 T-Bird rear knuckles and hubs, new OEM bearings / VPM Poly Bushings
• hubs re-drilled to 4 1'2" 5 lug pattern
• '92 Lincoln Mark VII rear disc brake calipers
• Fortes aluminum IRS mounts
• new set of rotors and Hawk HPS brake Pads (#580F.627.5618R)
• set of Mike Fortes braided Stainless Steel brake lines

you will need to decide if you want Pin-Drive or standard width. (what kind of wheels you want will pretty much dictate this)
There are TONS of options on these cars and that's the hardest part of the build.... deciding what you want!

[narkosys]

you can get (hopefully still) the hubs and knuckles from Ford Racing and there is no need to modify the hubs (which I think weakens them)

P

[Jester]

Just contacted FFR to order a few accessories and confirmed they have a bolt in kit for IRS (cage etc) which will make the change very easy. Still need pumpkin etc, etc. May consider at some time

[Dave Howard]

Hey Ian,
You can't go wrong with what you are considering. The coyote is an easy install and basically plug and play. Follow the instructions and turn the key. You may require spacers under the engine mounts. These can be purchased. The 4x1x4 headers from Stainless Headers are a must. Worth the additional cost and SO much better than the FFR Coyote headers and Jpipes. If you want the FFR stuff I have a brand new set for sale....real cheap. I can delivery to Calgary. Jester, you still have yours? Plan on installing the Ford speed sensor to eliminate stalling issues after a hard brake.
I had no other mods to get the engine to fit and run perfect. The drivers foot box is tight. Take the time to make it a little wider next the gas pedal. There's lots of room to allow this.
Oh ya...if you don't like adrenalin....find another hobby.