Alec and Marco's North Atlanta roadster build

[Alec]

Hi everyone! This is my first post, but I have been lurking here for awhile. We ordered our Mk4 Roadster complete kit today, along with a drivetrain from Blueprint. This may still change, but the current build plan is:

Complete Kit
Powder coated chassis
347 Stroker w/ EFI and TKX 5-spd from Blueprint
IRS
Standard shocks
Standard brakes
Manual steering rack
Short-back vintage seats (DS on a slider) (Marco is tall, I'm average)

The idea is to have as turn-key a system as possible. We are novices. I restored a 1977 MGB last year - mostly suspension, electrical and body work. That is the extent of our cumulative automotive experience.

My first question is about being prepared. I am doing a garage clean-out, and taking stock of my tools and equipment and space. I have an empty 3rd bay with lots of shelving space. A complete set of sockets and wrenches in a big rolling tool chest. A big vice. A 30g compressor. An 18v cordless drill with a million bits and drivers. various other woodworking and finishing tools. Lots of clamps. A large wooden bench. I'm going to upgrade my overhead lighting and add a sound system over the holiday.

From your experiences - what do you wish you had done to better prepare for your builds? What tools did you wish you had bought sooner?

[Namrups]

Alec, I would recommend you read thru EdwardB's build threads. He has built multiple roadsters, a coupe and is in the process of doing a truck. He is very good at explaining what he is doing and what tools, custom parts, special items along with tips about his builds. You will end up with a good list of tools that will make your build a lot easier.

[John Ibele]

Hey Alec, welcome and congratulations on the big adventure you're about to embark on. For the items on your build plan, you should make sure you've read what is out there on the forum related to power steering, and are making the choice of manual for the right reasons. There are multiple reasons to go with power steering, beyond not wrestling with the steering wheel when you're not moving or going slow. Otherwise what you have looks like a lot of fun and aligned with what I'm doing ... also went old school with a 347.

It sounds like you have space and and good set of tools to do this build. I added tools one at a time when needed. Tools I would have done differently: I would have spent more money on a higher quality tubing bender. Same with a flaring tool. I did plenty of rivets with the Ace hand rivet tool before getting an air rivet gun to go with my compressor, and I love it. Some still swear by the manual tool though. There are plenty of items you'll need to powdercoat or paint, and you should have a plan for that. Have fun and good luck, and keep the updates coming!

[460.465USMC]

Welcome aboard, Alex and Marco! You're in very good hands by taking advantage of this forum. I can't say enough how helpful the members have been to me. They can pretty much help on just about any issue/challenge you encounter.

I've been at my build for about 14 months (couple extended breaks along the way), and still have a long way to go. I have picked up way more tools than I expected at first. Here are some of the most valuable to me.

• Angled drill
• Cobalt drill bits from Aircraft Spruce (for the 1/8" and 3/16" rivets)
• Hydraulic crimper for 2AWG - 12 AWG power connections ($35-$50)
• Quality crimper for smaller (<12 AWG) connections
• Good headlamp (may not be needed depending upon your age and garage lighting)

Of course, all of this depends upon the tools you have on hand, and how much you color outside the lines, i.e. "Mods". I started with an average tool set--like what you describe above--and a novice mechanical skill set. I think there's wisdom in starting your build with what you have, and then see over time which tools you may want to add to your arsenal.

[John Ibele]

I like Chris's list. Except for the last item. I prefer to push my glasses back on my head, where I can bang them against the frame and drop them on the floor

I forgot a couple items. I did a fair amount of aluminum panel fab, since I did an expanded PS footbox, made my own thick firewall, and did my dash from scratch. But everyone does some. I used a rasp and mill files plenty to fine tune after a cut. For large cuts I got a metal shear ... super fast, but leaves 1/4" strip of aluminum on the workshop floor. Hand nibbler ... also handy in spots, but be ready to clean up super-abrasive 1/16" sharp-edged bits. I finally busted my old corded jigsaw, and getting a new cordless jigsaw combined with the right fine-toothed blade was like using a completely new tool. Next time around I would buy a disk sander to reduce the amount of time I spent cleaning up with a file. A disk sander would take you right up to the line in very little time, and would have cut my fab time considerably.

[Alec]

Production date is scheduled for 9-10-22. 8.5 months away.

[wareaglescott]

Only thing I would add was I had a set of wrenches also. Only went through 7/8" though. I found I needed some larger sizes for the build. Particularly for the suspension components.

[egchewy79]

welcome to the party!
8.5mo?! you'll have plenty of time to read through multiple build threads. I found edwardb, wareaglescott, and yamabro's threads very informative. Finding someone who has a similar set up (SBF vs coyote) as yours is helpful as well.
Figure out how you're going to store the body (suspended from ceiling vs body buck) and you can start working on that part of the process. if you're doing everything in a one car bay, consider elevating the buck on legs w/ casters or consider ceiling mounting it.
plan on getting yourself 50-100 clecos. you won't need one for every rivet hole, but they are useful to have when you're drilling panels.
also, if you're planning on getting an engine hoist, make sure you spring for the 2ton hoist. the 1ton does not allow the boom to extend long enough w/o a huge hassle. ask me how I know.

my journey is on the other forum if you get bored. 289 HiPo w/ a T5Z. I started it there because this forum wanted me to post 20 times before granting me the ability to post pics.
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/first...-build.636356/

[Alec]

Been talking with Mike Forte, and I think we are switching from a BPI-sourced 347, to a Forte 427ci with EFI and TKX. 500+ scary horsepower. Yes please. Fully dressed, and the price of the Forte motor is only a bit more than the smaller BPI motor.

[CobraMarco]

Marco here! Hello everyone....I just registered for the forums today and happy to be a part of the community. I've tried searching for what fellow 427 builders are using for their wheel/tire setup but couldn't find anything (maybe I'm using the search feature incorrectly). I might create a post about it, however if there is anyone in this thread with a 427, what tire brand and wheel size did you end up with? Main thing for me is I'd like to keep the classic look with 15" wheels/tires. If this is the route we take, what tires are adequate to handle the power? Unfortunately, I don't think many manufacturers such as toyo or nitto make a sticky track tire for a 15" wheel that is 295mm or higher. I've heard Avon CR6ZZ are great but there's not a lot of info on where and how to purchase them.

[CaptB]

Been talking with Mike Forte, and I think we are switching from a BPI-sourced 347, to a Forte 427ci with EFI and TKX. 500+ scary horsepower. Yes please. Fully dressed, and the price of the Forte motor is only a bit more than the smaller BPI motor.

BPI? Is that Blue Print Engines?

I am on the list for a Forte 427 with the same EFI/Tranny. BPE was going to take waaaay to long and Mike can get Ford blocks in a much shorter time frame.

[CobraMarco]

Yes, I think he meant BPE not BPI. We are getting a 427 for $3K over what BPE charged for a 347. Totally worth it imo.

[CaptB]

Yes, I think he meant BPE not BPI. We are getting a 427 for $3K over what BPE charged for a 347. Totally worth it imo.

You are correct, I am at $4K less than BPE (although it's more of a 500HP 427 than 540HP but I think with these cars that's livable :-)).

One reason is BPE is charging north of $4K for the TKX, that's the most expensive I've seen on the market.

[CobraMarco]

I believe our engines are very capable to exceed 500hp but even Forte said the claimed "540hp" on BPE's website isn't realistic. In any event, he builds the motors to be around 500hp so they are more "driveable." I own a 2017 Shelby GT350 and it weighs more than 1000lbs over the cobra with 526bhp, TC and all the creature tech comforts to keep you alive. I can only imagine what the roadster will feel like.

[CaptB]

I believe our engines are very capable to exceed 500hp but even Forte said the claimed "540hp" on BPE's website isn't realistic. In any event, he builds the motors to be around 500hp so they are more "driveable." I own a 2017 Shelby GT350 and it weighs more than 1000lbs over the cobra with 526bhp, TC and all the creature tech comforts to keep you alive. I can only imagine what the roadster will feel like.

Staying alive in these cars is key to success :-)

[Fman]

Staying alive in these cars is key to success :-)

I say a prayer every time I turn the key I am also in the 500+ HP club, if the engine and induction system are built properly it is a very fun experience to drive one of these. I can drive it like a Honda accord but when you want the power you better hold on.

[Alec]

Marco and I visited The Snake Pit (Spotlight Custom Cars) today, which is just an hour from my house. Mike Bowen gave us a tour and we saw 2 Mark 4s at different stages of completion (if the owners read this please chime-in), one was a 25th anniv car with a voodoo motor. What a beautiful setting in North Georgia he has to work on some beautiful cars, and just steps from his house. We got into the queue to have him paint ours late next year.

spotlight3.jpgspotlight4.jpgspotlight2.jpg

[Alec]

We just grabbed the last 2 spots for the Sept 16-18 build school class at Motts. Should coincide pretty closely with kit delivery. Who else will be there that week?

[Alec]

Marco and I are at the Atlanta airport waiting for our flight to the build school in Michigan. At the exact same time Carl Emery is headed south with our kit and forte 427. It's getting real.IMG_20220915_132324.jpgIMG_20220915_132356.jpg684938504.jpg

[Alec]

It has been a very busy few week, but the build is about to get started! Over the last few weeks I have been trying to get things crossed off the honey-do list so that I can focus on the build when the time comes. Master closet custom system install including laminate floor install, reclaiming my older son's BR and turning back into guest room (he moved into his college apartment and took his furniture) etc etc. Once I had a day I did the final garage prep. Throwing out as much useless crap as possible to free up space to work and store boxes, installing additional shelving, making space for the engine crate in front of my Miata parking spot. And I set up the body buck on kayak hoists:

PXL_20220911_212524192.jpg.

This will sit over my Miata (daily driver) in the bay next to where the build will happen. I plan to add a plywood shelf on the 2x4s underneath. I can store aluminum panels, the deck lid, hood and doors and maybe some boxes there.

Then, last Thursday, Marco and I flew to Detroit and spent Fri-Sun at the Mott CC FFR Build school. Instructors Scott and Todd led the 3-day class at an easy pace, answered every single question any of us had, and generally convinced the whole class that building this car is very very do-able, regardless of your prior skills and knowledge. Friday morning you have a bare frame, and Sunday evening Todd is doing donuts 20 feet from you in the car you just helped build. Amazing.
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Plus, Both instructors brought their own FFR Roadsters to class on Saturday, and along with Dave Smith's own dark blue Coyote car in the foyer of the building, we got to see lots of the various options and strategies people use to customize their own builds. That was great.
PXL_20220917_121651112.jpg

[Alec]

Yesterday, literally the day we flew home from Detroit (for the build school), Carl Emery with Bando 11 Racing and Transport pulled up in front of house. On his trailer was our engine, fully built, and the complete roadster kit. Felt absolutely like Christmas. We ordered in December and the day finally arrived.

PXL_20220920_184733937.jpg

We unloaded everything and carl helped us transfer the frame/body onto our frame dolly.

PXL_20220920_212321977.jpg

And the pile of boxes plus the stack of wheels/tires (peaking out in the front of the box pile) is impressive. Random watering can, I know.

PXL_20220920_212314826.jpg

Marco was immediately in love with our brand new 427w/TKX/EFI setup from Mike Forte. 538HP.

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Next is to swap out a few parts with FFR, do a full inventory, and get started on the build. I will update our build plan in the next post.

[Alec]

Updated build plan:

FFR
Complete Roadster Mk4 kit
Independent rear suspension
Powder coated frame
Body cutouts
Wilwood 13" brakes all around
Smiths vintage gauges (orig ordered (and received) the ultralite gauges that come standard and we decided we didn't like the white face and orange needles; swapping out/upgrading them)
Power steering rack
Low back vintage seats
Diamond stitched door panels
Wind wings/sun visors
Chrome single roll hoop
FFR Halibrand wheels/Micky Thompsons; 17" diam.; 245 Front, 315 Rear
Seat tracks
Delete side exhaust/headers
Windshield wiper kit (Georgia requires)
Build School discount

Mike Forte
427windsor, Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 EFI, Tremec TKX, power steering, hydraulic clutch w/ exterior slave cylinder

Dyno: 538.4HP @ 5800 / 533.3TQ @ 4500RPM

oil cooler
AC pedal pads
Seat heaters
Mechanical throttle linkage
Triple reservoir
Front sway bar

Aftermarket stuff:
Breeze radiator shroud and both mounts, radiator cowl
Breeze LED lighting kit
Breeze cockpit cubby
Gas'n Touring pipes and headers, polished
Russ Thomson turn signal and adjustable gas pedal
FF Metal firewall forward kit
Boig cool tubes (the corrugated rad pipes in the kit look unfinished, too many junctions)
Metco driveshaft safety loop

The car is in-queue to be painted Silver/white stripes by Spotlight Customs in Dahlonega, GA
We drive it to him in gelcoat, he does: gaps/body adjustments, disassembly, body work and paint, reassembly.

[Theshandman]

Good for you, Alec! You are going to have tons o' fun coming up. Because we're so close to each other (+/- 40 minutes), please feel free to visit again to see anything we did that might help you through any issues or dilemmas, if you and Marco even will have any.

[CobraMarco]

Thanks Art. Alec showed me your go-kart ride. Would love to see it when completely finished. When do you think that will be?

[scrubs]

Alec/Marco!

So excited for you guys getting started on the build. The time at the school really does get you pumped.

I am looking forward to following along, bookmarking this thread. Hey, your only 4 hrs from me (Nashville), so some road trips may be in order!

Jose & Ben

[Tim B]

Alec and Marco,

You guys are awesome! It was great to meet you at the build school and I am looking forward to following your build thread. Very cool build plan!

Tim

[Alec]

On the weekend we got the body off, rolled-on bedliner on the underside, and then got it up onto the body buck which is hosted up to ceiling with kayak hoists. On a shelf below the body is all of the aluminum off of the frame, and also the box containing our windshield. Great storage! I can still park my miata under it. My wife is predicting that one morning my miata will be wearing the cobra body, and crushed under a pile of wood. She of little faith!

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I had planned, after reading Papa's build thread, to use rustoleum bed-liner spray on the exposed panels. It wasn't that I wanted to save money on powder-coat (given how deep we are in to this, it becomes silly to worry about a few hundred more dollars), I really liked how that bed-liner looked, a little textured, a little reflective. However after hearing from Papa that if he could start over, he would have powder-coated his panels to avoid the occasional chipping and touch-up he has to do, i have decided that PC is the plan. Unfortunately I need to now strip and clean my F-panels which were already coated with bed-liner and ready for install. Oh well.

So I have questions from you experts:
1- Color/finish options for powder-coat. One sensible option is to do everything a satin black that matches the FFR PC'd frame. But what else have people done that looks really cool as a dramatic backdrop for the engine? Just curious if there is something out there that I haven't thought of. Maybe something that looks like the sprayed-on (lightly textured) bed-liner???

2- Does anyone have an itemized list of parts that can/should be powder-coated ? It would be great to get it all done at-once, now.
I know I need: F-panels, elephant ears, footbox panels, firewall, front (around radiator) aluminum panels, breeze aluminum (batt box, radiator fan shroud), hood hinge parts (do I do bolts, nuts and washers?), trunk hinge parts, parking brake parts. Maybe the outside wall of the trunk if it shows into the wheel well? Must be a few things I am not thinking of. Help me to get as much done in 1 batch as possible.

[John Ibele]

Congrats on the kit delivery! What a great time in the project. I see you didn't get answers to your questions on powdercoat ... and probably went ahead and made decisions anyway. Nonetheless a couple comments FWIW. You might want to consider a hammertone finish in the engine bay ... you can see many examples in build threads out there. I wanted that look and I'm happy with my final result ... but I'd never do it with rattle can spray again. I'd get a powdercoat version, for consistency and much less time spent than I did with my panels.

For panels facing the wheels I'm still a fan of bedliner (don't need to hear pebbles hitting aluminum) but I think that's personal choice, with lots of different approaches taken on quality builds - including bare aluminum. Many have also powdercoated panels that get covered up with other stuff, including the cockpit. I didn't see of the point of that, but others have figured the bulk price from their powdercoater made it worth it. Check Paul's (edwardb's) build threads.

Check your hood hinge parts. I have an older kit with mild steel brackets, so they definitely need PC or paint. I thought I had read that more recent kits had stainless components for the hood hinge, but you'll need to check that. Recent builders who are fans of the blackout look have PC'd many more items than the ones you've listed. Fman's and Blitzboy's build threads would be two examples to look at.