Gene's MKIV Build Thread

[Gene]

My Christmas present has arrived. Yesterday Stewart Transportation dropped off my new roadster.
I have been reading a lot of forum threads. They are a tremendous help. I will try to be as thorough as possible and document all my mistakes as well as my successes.

[David Hodgkins]

Gene, Congratulations! I've upgraded your account so you can use the pic albums here and update your profile.

Here's how to change your thread title as you go:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...tle-Guidelines

And this is how to embed pics using the Image Gallery:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...tures-in-posts

I'm looking forward to watching the build, and hopefully answering any question that rise along the way.

[Gene]

My donor car is a 1994 mustang.




The engine was a Ford Racing crate engine that I installed in 2006.
However, in order to fit it into a 94 Mustang, I had to change the timing cover, water pump, oil pan, and valve covers.




I did save those parts and was able to put them on the engine for the roadster. I also decided to go with an Edelbrock 650 carb.

[Gene]

The next step was to pull the rear end.





After wire brushing the rear end, I peeped it with POR 15 cleaner degreaser and metal prep, I coated it with clear and black POR 15.

Now its off to Currie Enterprises for new bearings and some 3.55 gears.

[Gene]

To prepare for the kit, I built a body buck based on the excellent post by Bill Hass.
http://www.ffcars.com/FAQ/bodybuck02.html

I did put the horizontal rails on the inside of the legs to give me a couple more inches of garage room. I also made the rear of the buck from a combination of Bill's dimensions and the dimensions in the Factory Five manual (see below).



I made a chassis dolly based on pstockha's New Wisconsin build thread. I did make mine lower though so the chassis would fit under the body buck.

[Gene]

On Sunday the big day was here. Stewart Transportation delivered the kit.






My family was here to help with the unloading and several neighbors pitched in also.

[Gene]

The Stewart driver was outstanding. With his help we loaded the chassis and body on jack stands and then transferred it to the chassis dolly.





We put the body buck over the kit for now and I can get my 35 Ford back in the garage.



On Christmas day my family will be back to help get the body on the body buck.

[WIS89]

Gene-

Pretty awesome Christmas present; congratulations!

Also pretty cool that Bart Starr showed up to help out.

That 35 is a pretty cool stablemate for the Roadster too. Congratulations again, and welcome to a pretty cool club!

Regards,

Steve

[Gene]

I said that I would document my mistakes as well as my successes. Well, my first mistake was with the rear of the body buck. When I mounted the body on the buck, I was not satisfied with the fit. The buck didn't fit into the wheel wells the way I expected. So I made a cardboard mockup that I felt fit better. Then got another piece of OSB, cut it to match the mockup and bolted to over the old rear part of the buck.
Below is a rough drawing of the revised rear buck and a picture of the fit. It's not perfect but better than the first try.

[cgundermann]

Nice fit; thanks for sharing your schematics.

[carlewms]

Gene,

Congratulations! I am looking forward to seeing your build progress.

Carl

[Gene]

Today I mounted the F panels. After drilling the rivet holes I cleaned the panels with "Goof Off". It worked great and removed both my marks and the ones on the panels from the mill.

Before


After


It also helped remove the excess silicone after riveting the panels to the frame.

[Gene]

Following EdwardB's advice, I taped up everywhere I thought I could bump the frame with a tool. Then installed the bolts for the lower control arms. The front bushings were a tight fit and took some elbow grease to get the bushings in. The rear bushings required one washer each inside the frame mounts. I inserted the bolts and used a 2X4 to lever the arms before greasing and torquing the bolts. Inspire of taping everywhere I could bump the frame, I still managed to find spots to bump that I didn't tape. No harm done though. For torquing the nuts to 105 ft-lbs. I placed a block of wood to support the adjustable wrench I put on the nut. It protected the frame and made it easier to get the wrench off after torquing.





I see in other build threads that some panels are painted. Is this necessary for all panels? Which should be painted and which should be left bare?

[2bking]

I see in other build threads that some panels are painted. Is this necessary for all panels? Which should be painted and which should be left bare?

Gene, excellent start.

It is much easier to paint, polish, etc, before installing the panels. This is where you need a build plan and color scheme to follow. For instance since the chassis is black, will all other parts be black? If you plan on some thermal insulation, will it be on inside or outside of the panels? You will have to make a finish decision on most every part in the build. Unless you are wanting the old grey aluminum finish look on the exposed panels, they need some sort of finish to protect them from oxidation. The side that gets an insulation coating of some kind can be left bare.

[carlewms]

Gene,

Great start and welcome to the fray ....

I agree with King ... Decide the look your trying to achieve and then determine how to treat the panels. The other consideration includes cost of and availability of treatment services in your area. Powder coating panels may be your choice but if the costs are high or you have to mail off the panels, it may not be the right answer for you.

What did I do? I wanted the look of the raw aluminum but also wanted protection from the elements ...

On panels which were under insulation ... Nothing other than to make sure they were clean before applying the insulation;
On the sides and under chassis exposed panels ... Professional level rattle can undercoating .., the thick stuff; and,
On visible panels (like engine compartment) ... I created a brushed look with sand paper and scotchbright pads and coated with SharkHide.

Have fun!

[Gene]

After several hours of wire brushing (both on a drill and by hand) and a can of brake parts cleaner, I finally got the spindles from the donor car cleaned up. I preped them with POR15 metal prep and masked off the machined surfaces.



That was followed with a coat of black POR15



I did run into a small problem. The manual says to screw the ball joints into the control arms so that the balljoint angles out on the bottom. When I did this the grease fitting on the ball joint was on the opposite side of the grease fittings on the control arms. When the grease fittings were all on the same side the ball joint angled in. I called FFR and the told me to unthread the receiver (the piece that holds the ball joint,) from the two arms, flip it, then thread it back on and put the ball joint in the other direction. Simple fix but it stopped me for a couple of days over the weekend before I could contact FFR.

[edwardb]

I did run into a small problem. The manual says to screw the ball joints into the control arms so that the balljoint angles out on the bottom. When I did this the grease fitting on the ball joint was on the opposite side of the grease fittings on the control arms. When the grease fittings were all on the same side the ball joint angled in. I called FFR and the told me to unthread the receiver (the piece that holds the ball joint,) from the two arms, flip it, then thread it back on and put the ball joint in the other direction. Simple fix but it stopped me for a couple of days over the weekend before I could contact FFR.

I hope this is the "before" picture. Because in this picture the ball joint plate and ball joint itself are upside down. Your statement is correct. The ball joint should angle out at the bottom. I'm surprised to hear your control arms may have been assembled incorrectly. Haven't heard of that before. Makes me wonder though... Also in this picture it looks like your ball joint isn't fully seated. It needs to thread all the way down.

[Gene]

That was the before picture. The ball joint wasn't seated because I was pretty sure I didn't want to assemble it that way.

[edwardb]

That was the before picture. The ball joint wasn't seated because I was pretty sure I didn't want to assemble it that way.

Whew! Good.

[Gene]

Now that I have the Upper Control Arms together, I was able to finish the rest of the front suspension.
I had a little trouble fitting the shock with the 0.43 spacers into the lower control arm. I had to file the spacers down to get them to fit. The 0.675 spacers on the UCA were no problem. Once the shocks were mounted, I had another tight fit between the spindles and the IFS bracket. Again out came the trusty file. After quite a bit of elbow grease, I was able to get them together.

[Gene]

I am not sure if this is the place to ask this question or not. It might be better as it's own thread but I'll start here. The roadster I'm building will have a Ford Racing 302 advertised at 380 hp. It will be a daily driver with brakes from a '94 mustang.
My question is whether I should put in power brakes or not. I have a 3000 lb. 1935 Ford which had manual brakes from a '67 mustang for many years. It stopped like a 1935 truck. There was no way my wife could drive it. A few years ago I put in power brakes with Wildwood disks on all four wheels ( the old setup was disks in front and drums in the rear). The difference was astonishing. Instead of stopping like a '35 truck it now stops with less effort than my '09 Prius.
That makes me think I should go with power brakes on the roadster. I would like to get as many opinions as possible so please chime in.
Thanks.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You asked for "as many opinions as possible" and are sure to get 'em! Here's mine: no power when using the Wilwood brakes but power with a donor based configuration. I've done 4 roadsters with Mustang based braked and did vacuum assist on all.

You didn't ask about power steering but I'm known to be one of the forums' biggest believers in it so I'll just throw this out there. For a track car it's virtually mandatory; for a street car it just makes the driving experience sooooo much nicer. I've incorporated PS on every car I've built and when I get into some of my body & paint customer's cars with manual steering it makes me appreciate power all that much more.

No doubt other opinions will follow!

Jeff

[edwardb]

Regarding power brakes, I don't see where you describe which pedal box you're using. I agree with Jeff. That makes a difference. If you're using the Wilwood box, leave them manual. That's how they're designed to work. As long as you're doing four wheels disks, you have a number of options with front/back balancing, MC size, pads, etc. to have very good brakes. They will have a slightly heavier pedal than power, but very manageable and plenty of stopping power. If, on the other hand, you're doing a donor footbox, then I too recommend power. That's also how they were designed to work. Vacuum boost is an easy add and works very well. I recommend the Whitby kit. I will also pile on to Jeff's comment about power steering. Probably no one thing you can do to make your car more pleasant to drive than that. Especially if it's a daily driver as you say. I will also add my standard line -- it's not just about effort (man card...) it's also about front end alignment. Increased caster with power steering (from around +4 to +8) gives the car better straight line tracking and high speed stability. It just makes the car such a pleasure to drive. I've had both, and won't have one without PS again.

[carlewms]

Gene,

Nothing much to add on the brakes ... I have the wildwood pedal box with the upgraded front and rear brakes so manual.

Power steering ... I started with manual but after discussions with several folks specially CraigS who has given me a bunch of help on my build I converted to power steering. If you go that way do it now ... i

[Gene]

Thanks everyone. I have always planned on power steering.
I did get the wildwood pedal box since my donor car had an automatic transmission and I am planning on a TKO 600. But I will use the '94 Mustang single piston calipers. The fronts will use the stock rotors. The rears will use 11.65 rotors from an '04 Mach one with adaptor brackets from FFR to allow the use of the '94 calipers. Since I'm not using the Wildwood calipers, it sounds like power brakes is the way to go.
What do you think?

[Gene]

After cleaning up and painting the calipers, I replaced the bushings, greased the guide pins and made sure they moved freely. Then torqued the brakes onto the spindles. Now on to the rear end.

[Gene]

After I finished the front suspension, I went back over everything with the manual and the bill of materials. I made sure I had followed all the steps, properly torqued all fasteners and used all the parts in the correct place.
Among the parts which were backordered when my kit came were two 5/8 countersunk washers. When they came a little while later, I didn't put them with the other lower control arm parts.


When I was attaching the ball joints to the lower control arms, I saw that the castle nut was too far down on the ball joint to engage the cotter pin. I fixed this by adding extra washers.


When I compared the bill of materials to what I had used, I realized why the castle nuts were too low. So I undid the castle nuts, took off the extra washers and used the countersunk washers where they were supposed to go.


It pays to double check your work.
NOW on to the rear end.

[Gene]

My donor car is a 1994 mustang. The '94 had ABS brakes so the rear axles wouldn't fit on the roadster. I got new axles but to be able to use my '94 rear calipers I needed some special brackets from FFR and new 11.65 inch rotors from a 2004 Mach 1. The brackets don't have a part number but Dan was able to tell me what I needed.
When I got the brackets and put them on, I found out that I got the 13 inch front rotors by mistake. When I got the correct rotors and mounted the brakes there was almost no clearance on one side. The opening in the caliper is 0.790 inches wide and the rotors are 0.715 inches thick (less than 0.038 inches on a side). After several different shim combinations, I finally achieved adequate clearance on each side.

[Gene]

The caliper brackets allowed me to install the calipers either in front of the axle or behind it. Since the donor car had them behind the axle, I decided to install them that way.
Oops.
When I tried to install the driver side shock it interfered with the caliper. So I had to disassemble both sides and reassemble them in front of the axle. That worked.


I finished the rear end and suspension torquing everything to spec. I left the upper link and panhard bar unadjusted for now.
When I was done, I went through the manual and the packing list/bill of materials to make sure I had completed everything. Unfortunately, I have two 3/8" - 16 x 1" bolts, two 3/8" washers and two 3/8" - 16 Nylon lock nuts left over. I can't figure out where they go. Anyone have any ideas?

[Gene]

Today I ordered Xmat from Eastwood. I used this when I put a new floor in my '35 Ford several years ago. It worked great, really reduced the heat from the exhaust. It's cheaper than dynamat and is a little easier to cut.
http://www.eastwood.com/xmat-sound-d...4-8-sq-ft.html
I plan to use this material on the inside of the panels and leave the outside bare aluminum like the original cobras.
I am wondering if I should cover the whole panel on the front of the driver side footbox before riveting it in place, or if I should mount the panel to the frame and install the pedal box first. If I cover the whole panel, I'm concerned that the 0.062" thickness will affect the fit of the other panels.

[edwardb]

Today I ordered Xmat from Eastwood. I used this when I put a new floor in my '35 Ford several years ago. It worked great, really reduced the heat from the exhaust. It's cheaper than dynamat and is a little easier to cut.
http://www.eastwood.com/xmat-sound-d...4-8-sq-ft.html
I plan to use this material on the inside of the panels and leave the outside bare aluminum like the original cobras.
I am wondering if I should cover the whole panel on the front of the driver side footbox before riveting it in place, or if I should mount the panel to the frame and install the pedal box first. If I cover the whole panel, I'm concerned that the 0.062" thickness will affect the fit of the other panels.

I would not recommend sandwiching the insulation between the DS footbox panel and the chassis footbox. Yes, the thickness will throw off the fit of the panels. The aluminum panels for the most part are very precise. Even not installing them with the proper overlap can make a difference. Plus with that thick steel chassis plate, I doubt you're going to get much added insulation. For some of the hard to reach panels, like that one, I've seen some guys stick the insulation on the open areas before installation. Maybe consider that instead.

[6t8dart]

Pre cut the sheets to fit, install hem after you rivet the panels together. I would cut it back about an inch from the edges, and clear of any rivet areas, then after you are done, cut 2" strips to go in the corners over the rivets.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Gene,
You didn't say and I can't really tell from your photo (so much fresh shiny black paint!) but when you changed your calipers from behind the axle to ahead did you swap them side to side? If not your bleeders will not be pointing up and you will find it difficult if not impossible to get the calipers bled.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Gene]

Thanks for the input. I will definitely rivet the panels first and follow the rest of your advice.
Jeff, Thanks. No, I didn't swap the calipers. But now that I look at them, you are right. They would be hard to bleed that way. I will switch them now.
You guys have saved me a lot of trouble. Thanks again.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff, Thanks. No, I didn't swap the calipers. But now that I look at them, you are right. They would be hard to bleed that way. I will switch them now.

Gene,
When you make the change you'll swap everything side to side; axle brackets, caliper mounts calipers and anti-moan brackets.

Good luck,
Jeff

[Gene]

Thanks again Jeff. I will.

Over the weekend I cut out the opening for the heater in the firewall, mounted the firewall, mounted the driver side footbox front panel and installed the Willwood pedal box.





I noted that some people have notched the clutch pedal and some the frame to prevent interference between the pedal and the frame. I called Factory Five to see which they recommend.

Tony said DON'T DO EITHER.

He said that the pedal travel for the clutch is not that much. When the clutch is adjusted, when the pedal is fully depressed it won't hit the frame.

[edwardb]

I noted that some people have notched the clutch pedal and some the frame to prevent interference between the pedal and the frame. I called Factory Five to see which they recommend.

Tony said DON'T DO EITHER.

He said that the pedal travel for the clutch is not that much. When the clutch is adjusted, when the pedal is fully depressed it won't hit the frame.

That's the party line, and with all due respect, I don't understand it. Check for yourself. Looks like you're far enough on your build to see the interference and measure the effect. My current build is similar to the last build. Total clutch movement available at the pedal to the floor is approx 6 inches. The Wilwood clutch pedal arm will start contacting the lower inside corner of the 3/4 inch frame member at 3 to 3-1/2 inches. The location of the pedal box can't be changed or the pedal locations adjusted. It is what it is. I've completed two builds. One with a cable clutch setup, the other hydraulic. Stock Ford style clutch setup and clutch arm. Both required nearly the full throw of the clutch pedal to the floor. There is no way either would have worked using only the top 3 to 3-1/2 inches of pedal. My current build, also hydraulic, is coming up the same way. If you could get the clutch to work somehow with the top 3 to 3-1/2 inches of pedal, the effort would be significantly increased. Not a good thing. I happen to be in the frame notch camp, and that's what I've done twice. But guys notching the pedal make a strong case for their approach. You don't have to decide now. Wait until your far enough along in the build to see if you can get it to work as is. I know where my bet will be placed.

[RRussellTx]

I agree with Edwardb - I wanted to make it work without the mods but it just did not work out. I went with the pedal notch and have not looked back.

[carlewms]

Just as another reference I have the wilwood pedal box with the hydraulic clutch ... I agree with RRussell and Edwardb the mod needs to be made.

If the pedal is unmodified and you don't notch your going to be putting a lot of lateral force on the pedal arm and hinge components above it that it is not intended to carry.

Considering the other issues with the cable system the hydraulic clutch since there is already a spot for it on the Wilwood Pedal box makes a lot of sense and I would highly recommend it ...do it now
vice waiting.

Carl

[Gene]

Good feedback guys.
I plan to use rivets on the top of the driver side footbox so I can get at the pedals when I put the trans in. For now, I will leave everything as it is. But as I continue the build, I will make sure I keep my options open.

Today I gave up trying to get the inner tie rods out by myself.
I had borrowed an inner tie rod remover tool from AutoZone. Using my impact gun I couldn't get them free. I went to a friend who had a much more powerful impact wrench, but we still couldn't get them out. Finally, I called a local shop that does a lot of steering work. Their expert said he couldn't understand why I should be having a problem. He suggested I bring it over for him to look at. When I got there, I saw that his inner tie rod remover was much better that the one I had been using. He put it on a vice and went to work. After 10 minutes, he finally got them both out. He said he has never had that much trouble removing a tie rod in his life. It looked like someone used a whole tube of locktight on them. When he was done I asked how much I owed him. He said nothing, but I got him to take a 20 after I told him how much I appreciated his help. By the way, he is planning to build an FFR roadster.