Aluminum Fuel Tank by Boyd Welding

[longislandwrx]

I'm kind of leaning back to this route. Maybe I'll add in the little baffles with the 1" holes but not put in the check valves. If I end up needing them later I can add them later.

smart.

Yes as the pumps I have can draw up to 15-18 amps and the controller can handle 20 amps so I was getting failures and had to install a second controller and folks with even single high performance pumps may have amp draw issues

what's your fuel setup? I would think at next to no pressure the draw on the lift pump wouldn't be that high.

Craig,
I like idea #1, but why use a second pump. Use the free jet pump like stock Subaru.

Attachment 52178

I don't have one of these at my disposal, however a DW200 for the lift pump and install kit is less than $100

[Mechie3]

I totally missed Bob's post.

That could be an option, but I don't have an OEM assembly anymore. I would wonder what would happen if the pump is in the surge and the return is clogged and it goes to relief, do you lose all jet function and thus all in pumping action? The boyd pump assemblies are a little expensive, but I have the ability to machine my own top caps and such so I can buy the $100 pump vs the $350 kit with top.

[FFRSpec72]

what's your fuel setup? I would think at next to no pressure the draw on the lift pump wouldn't be that high.

Fuel cell with 2 aeromatic 320 pumps, variable fuel pressure regulator, the pumps were not working as the draw on power up was like 16 amps each once I went to 2 controllers everything was fine

[Wayne Presley]

The lift pump can be a low pressure pump just big enough to keep the surge tank full and could be at 80% capacity of the motor's needs since there is no way the motor could stay at full fuel demand for more than 15 seconds unless you're at Bonneville..

[longislandwrx]

The lift pump can be a low pressure pump just big enough to keep the surge tank full and could be at 80% capacity of the motor's needs since there is no way the motor could stay at full fuel demand for more than 15 seconds unless you're at Bonneville..

I saw k&n had a low pressure pump, for about $50
http://www.amazon.com/K-N-81-0403-Fu.../dp/B00OXZD2OY

not sure if it's enough flow.

[Loring]

I did some searching last night. It looks like the rubber style ones are meant to be replaced yearly and are intended more as a rollover valve for large ports on a fuel cell, not as check valves.

Wrong ones. The ones I'm referring to are the ones used in OEM fuel collectors. They run well for years. I'll try and find an example already in production and available.

As far as the second fuel pump goes, I'd run if off of a relay with the coil connected to a WOT or boost switch. No speed controller needed.

[Loring]

I just looked into it, apparently they're a variant of the old quadrajet accelerator pump check valves. You can find them by searching for 'umbrella check valve'.

[DMC7492]

The jet pump has ZERO moving parts it is a venturi action and is proven on all the Subaru's, here how it works.
When you replace your factory fuel pump to large capacity type.

The factory Jet pump will be insufficient and the flow will become blocked.This will lead to failure of the regulator or the vehicle will loose performance causing fuel pressure to rise. By replacing your factory Jet pump to the Sard Jet Pump Killer, the vehicle will have a steady flow of fuel.

Jet Pump Fuction.
The Saddle Type Fuel Tank has two Rooms which is divided into 2. A and B as show on the diagram. This Type of tank is mainly used is rear wheel and 4WD vehciles. When the fuel starts to decrease, it will remain in the B department of the tank. The Jet pump uses the flow rate of the returning fuel from the engine and due to the Venturi effect, pumps the fuel from the tank B and transfers is to Tank A

jetpump.jpg

[nkw8181]

The lift pump can be a low pressure pump just big enough to keep the surge tank full and could be at 80% capacity of the motor's needs since there is no way the motor could stay at full fuel demand for more than 15 seconds unless you're at Bonneville..

So my question is do I need to worry about having two 320 pumps wired in the stock system? The Boyd tank pump shouldn't have any resistance since it is filling a surge tank with a return so no real pressure.

Second question. When my tank is full (could see the gas in the fill tube) the Guage only reads 3/4. After using 5 gallons it reads 1/4 of a tank. How do I get my fuel level to read propperly?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Second question. When my tank is full (could see the gas in the fill tube) the Guage only reads 3/4. After using 5 gallons it reads 1/4 of a tank. How do I get my fuel level to read propperly?

To get the gauge to read properly. Bending, lengthening or shortening the float arm should work.

Bob

[Mechie3]

Got a quote this morning. $375 for the tank. Going to make my own pump mounts (and figure out what pumps I need). That's a 14 gallon tank with a built in surge/swirl tank on the side plus baffles in the middle with a single 1" hole in each baffle that can have check valves added to create a collector tank.

[Frank818]

375?? That is so cheap for a perfect semi-big tank! Lucky you.

[07FIREBLADE]

Ok now how much is this going to cost to get through zdm? Thats the real question here.

[longislandwrx]

That's not bad at all! I am going to hold off finishing my brake lines because I think my tank is coming out.

is it taller than the FFR tank?

[Mechie3]

Ok now how much is this going to cost to get through zdm? Thats the real question here.

Nothing? lol. I'll make a copy of page one of my drawing and post it up. You should be able to order from Boyd directly. Page two of the print shows some dimensions for bolt mounting patterns that Boyd gave me, but might be proprietary, so I won't share that part.This isn't something that is really in my wheelhouse and I'm not sure I could produce them for much (or any less) after I pay someone else to do the welding. The only area I could provide something is fuel pump mounts.

As designed, the tank needs two of the Boyd 41001 EFI pumps which cost $349 each. The Aeromotive 340 pumps themselves are only about $120 each so I plan to make my own top plates/install kit. His install kit essentially costs $229. Depending on how much interest there is I could offer these if pricing is any better. Tank also has two 1/2" NPT fittings welded to the top. One is used with the FFR provided rollover valve, the other will be used for my filling vent.

As quoted, complete, the tank was $375, sending unit was $48 (I bought this), and pump kits were $698 (for 2), total of $1,121. As mentioned above, I skipped the install kit so my cost will be $375 + $48 + $240 (2 pumps) + my own time to make install kit, total of $663. The regular Boyd 818 tank is $573 with a sending unit and pump.

That's not bad at all! I am going to hold off finishing my brake lines because I think my tank is coming out.

is it taller than the FFR tank?

It is the same height as the original FFR tank and same front/back depth as the top. The original tank angles out at the front. I got rid of that. This tank will not work with the new firewall.

[FFRSpec72]

Nothing? lol. I'll make a copy of page one of my drawing and post it up. You should be able to order from Boyd directly. Page two of the print shows some dimensions for bolt mounting patterns that Boyd gave me, but might be proprietary, so I won't share that part.This isn't something that is really in my wheelhouse and I'm not sure I could produce them for much (or any less) after I pay someone else to do the welding. The only area I could provide something is fuel pump mounts.

As designed, the tank needs two of the Boyd 41001 EFI pumps which cost $349 each. The Aeromotive 340 pumps themselves are only about $120 each so I plan to make my own top plates/install kit. His install kit essentially costs $229. Depending on how much interest there is I could offer these if pricing is any better. Tank also has two 1/2" NPT fittings welded to the top. One is used with the FFR provided rollover valve, the other will be used for my filling vent.

As quoted, complete, the tank was $375, sending unit was $48 (I bought this), and pump kits were $698 (for 2), total of $1,121. As mentioned above, I skipped the install kit so my cost will be $375 + $48 + $240 (2 pumps) + my own time to make install kit, total of $663. The regular Boyd 818 tank is $573 with a sending unit and pump.




It is the same height as the original FFR tank and same front/back depth as the top. The original tank angles out at the front. I got rid of that. This tank will not work with the new firewall.

WOW, the full price is quite high for a non rated fuel cell

[Mechie3]

Indeed it is. If I didn't have the ability to make my own EFI mounts and had to buy them I would not have gone this route. As is, I'm coming in $460 under everyone else's price. It still ends up being cheaper than buying a radium surge tank for $600 (without pumps) in conjunction with whatever tank you get.

[Frank818]

2 fuel pumps? Why?

But in the end if my FFR tank leaks and I can't fix it properly, this Boyd tank will have all the holes (vents, filler, etc.), no leaks, 1gal more and a try reading level sender. It's all about FFR's tank leaking, now (for me).

[Mechie3]

It has a built in surge tank. One pump feeds the surge tank, the other pump feeds the engine. The surge tank is a smaller footprint so 1 gallon of gas gives a much higher fuel level than it would in the large tank. If the large tank pump starves because you're in a corner the surge tank pump is still completely covered and has a full gallon+ reserve to keep you going until the main pump picks pack up.

http://www.nukeperformance.com/techn...low-chart-faq/

Like this, but only 1 pump in the surge tank and the tank is built into the main tank.

[David Hodgkins]

Is Boyd no longer a vendor? They're not on the vendor page.

No, Boyd Welding is no longer a vendor on this site.

What does that mean as far as discussing Boyd parts as per forum rules?

That's a good question. I think the first thing I need to do is have a chat with the folks at Boyd before I make any statements about how to move forward. I think the conversation needs to be had about how to handle references to former vendors, but that may be a discussion best had in the abstract, as opposed to this particular instance, at this time.

Let me reach out to them and see if there is any chance at reinstatement before I talk about their particular case.

Guys I want to chime in with an update on Boyd Welding. Their issue with vendor status was the result of an accounting snafu on our part, and not due to any failings on the part of Boyd Welding.

I'm currently working on reinstating their banner to the top of the site where it belongs.

[flynntuna]

Good to hear, though I would hope it was a "rare" mistake rather than being a situation normal all f..... Up.

[TouchStone]

The original tank angles out at the front. I got rid of that.

I ran brake lines and hoses through the back corners where there was a cutout in the FFR tank. Is this what you got rid of?

[Mechie3]

I got rid of two things.

1: The front of the tank is angled from top to bottom where the top is narrower (front to back) than the bottom. I got rid of this and made it a flat front tank.

2:The sides had some cutouts where the tank was 1/2 the height. I saw no real reason for this in this application.

There was a bit of a back angle on both sides of the tank where the back of the tank was narrower than the front. I got rid of this on the passenger side and the driver side. For the driver side, the tank is ~2" or so from the frame so that anyone who ran lines through there wouldn't have to change if they wanted the same design.

[TouchStone]

I got rid of two things.

1: The front of the tank is angled from top to bottom where the top is narrower (front to back) than the bottom. I got rid of this and made it a flat front tank.

The front of the tank is angled to match the slope of the firewall.

[RM1SepEx]

yes but it was cheaper to make if it was thinner and vertical

[Mechie3]

Which is what I did. Adding in the angled part (starting from a thinner rectangle) added 3 gallons (so 17 instead of 14). 17 is a lot of weight. It would also make welding in the internal baffles a pain.

It's this minus the triangle front.



Here is a link to a modified version of the drawing. I removed the detail showing the bolt pattern for Boyd's EFI sending plate. Dave sent me a screenshot of the pattern but I didn't find it listed anywhere. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a secret or not so I'll err on the side of not telling others. If you bought the tank you could either buy his EFI setup, or make your own. It wouldn't be hard to make a pattern from the top of the tank (or using one of his gaskets available for ~$11).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n...ew?usp=sharing

I posted more pics in my build thread I think, but I'll repost them here.

How I modified the filler:

[Mechie3]

Here's the print:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7n...ew?usp=sharing

A few notes (most are covered above):
This does not work with the new firewall
The 1" diameter holes should be 1" +.020-.000 (mine came in undersized and was annoying to fix)
If you don't want to use check valves just ask Boyd for their standard pump baffle
You will need two pump mounting under rings, two pumps, two pump mounting plates, and two gaskets
You will need to hardwire the pumps to the battery. Run a ground to both pumps and run a positive line to a relay and the output to the pumps. Trigger the relay with the two lines that originally fed the single pump.

Edit: I removed the dimensions for Boyd's EFI pattern on this version of the print. I don't know if it's anything proprietary. Boyd did share it with me, but sent me a screenshot not a publicly available print. He will recognize the EFI patterns and knows what to do.

[07FIREBLADE]

What's the price tag on this setup? Looks pricey but well worth it.

[Mechie3]

As quoted:
tank: $375
sending unit: $48
pump kits: $698 (for 2 A340 pumps),
Total: $1,121.

As mentioned above, I skipped the install kit so my cost was
$375 (tank)
$48 (sending unit)
$143 (2 wablro pumps)
$60 (material) + my own time to make install kit
Total of $626.

The regular Boyd 818 tank is $573 with a sending unit and pump.

You can always order just the underrings from Boyd and make your own top plates (just 1/4" plate with holes, cut to shape on a bandsaw).

[kcarlasc]

Has anyone had issue with the bulk head aluminum does not clear where the filler tube comes in? Just mocked mine up and the bulk head won’t sit flush on the floor because of it...

[wirenut]

Has anyone had issue with the bulk head aluminum does not clear where the filler tube comes in? Just mocked mine up and the bulk head won’t sit flush on the floor because of it...

Yep I have the same issue. I was planning on reworking the bulk head on the passenger side to push the seat back, so I guess I'm just adding the drivers side to the list.

I wish I would have known up front how little amount on the kit parts I would end up using.....

[mistasherm]

I wish I would have known up front how little amount on the kit parts I would end up using.....

wirenut - to quote my wife, "why are you buying so many parts? It's a KIT! Why didn't it come in the "kit?"

....and same issue on mine as well....

[kcarlasc]

I am going to add some bar stock underneath the bottom of the panel to raise it up.. I will just do both sides..

And as for the extra parts... just placed yet another order for the "kit" :-)

Yep I have the same issue. I was planning on reworking the bulk head on the passenger side to push the seat back, so I guess I'm just adding the drivers side to the list.

I wish I would have known up front how little amount on the kit parts I would end up using.....

[David Hodgkins]

Guys,

As of Jan. 1 2018 Boyd is no longer a vendor. I won't close the thread, but just be aware. Not sure how I'll handle future threads yet; probably will allow "support type" threads but discourage "check out my new Boyd tank" types of threads.

Losing a vendor really hurts as we only have a precious few.

[flynntuna]

Well that's a bummer, they had such a great Black Friday sale. Hope they reconsider.

[japollon]

Is there an aluminum tank available for the FFR Mk IV roadster?

[RM1SepEx]

Did anyone ever confirm if the Boyd 33 tank fits in the 818 with original firewall?

[iblackwe]

Reviving an old thread - how are people enjoying their Boyd tanks? Have there been any revisions since V1? Any revival in the interest to make a larger tank filling the entire space, rather than leaving a gap to the firewall or having to re-bend the firewall?

I have reached the point of fed up with my leaking original tank and just priced out the new one from FFR at nearly the same price as the Boyd tank. Before I plop down over $600 on the new Boyd tank though, I'd like to hear how it's working out for people.

Just wondering how you got your tank to seal? I tried some sealant but it still leaked, might try another O-ring and some JB waterweld next. If you have a tried and true method I would definitely like to know. Thanks

[philly15]

I used the ffr tank for the first couple years, and didn't have any issues other then not knowing my actual fuel level. I just took my pump and level to orilleys if I remember. And matched up gaskets till I found a thicker one that sealed. But I just installed the boyd tank yesterday due to a massive setup change, but am curious how the boyd tank is holding up with those who have run e85? Being an aluminum tank I'm leery, but looks like people have been doing it?

[Wayne Presley]

E85 is no issue for the tank or pump that comes with the Boyds tank