Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report

[Ducky2009]

Looks great Paul. Love the seats. Looks nicer that the Kirkey seats I have. What brand/model are they? I may have to make a change.

[edwardb]

Looks so cool as a roller....but I must ask have you actually rolled it anywhere to make it official? haha Lets get that thing out in the sun for a picture!

I rolled it back and forth a few feet. Does that count? It will be rolling it out onto the driveway when I spray the Lizard Skin. Maybe then it will be official.

Looks great Paul. Love the seats. Looks nicer that the Kirkey seats I have. What brand/model are they? I may have to make a change.

Corbeau Sportline Evolution-X 64901F seats, black vinyl/carbon fiber vinyl, red stitching and Corbeau Single Slider Brackets C22059. Available lots of places, including Summit. But I ordered the seats direct from Corbeau because I had the optional seat heaters installed. Can't say how they would fit in a Roadster, if that's what you're thinking. Only looked at how they fit in the Gen 3 Coupe, which was OK for our use.

[Erik W. Treves]

did you end up putting wheel spacers in the back? Also I notice you are running R suspension ride height... is this because of the shocks? Really clean build. very nice.

[edwardb]

did you end up putting wheel spacers in the back? Also I notice you are running R suspension ride height... is this because of the shocks? Really clean build. very nice.

Hey Erik. Thanks! Yes, I have 1-inch Eibach hub-centric spacers in the back. Some suggested it could handle a little more, but went with those. The suspension is at the street height. But even then, per Factory Five instructions, the silver Koni double adjustable shocks are installed in the top R hole. Apparently because they are slightly longer.

[P100DHG]

Have you given any thought to a stereo system? I’m leaning toward nothing and just using a bose mini sound dock or something like a Bluetooth puck coming straight off an amp so there wouldn’t be a head unit for my build coming up this winter.

[Erik W. Treves]

FYSA... I started with 1 inch spacers in the back and they were not enough. Even with the 1.5 spacer I still had to notch the frame.

[edwardb]

Have you given any thought to a stereo system? I’m leaning toward nothing and just using a bose mini sound dock or something like a Bluetooth puck coming straight off an amp so there wouldn’t be a head unit for my build coming up this winter.

Nope. No stereo system planned. Spent a lot of time (and money) installing a nice system in one of my Roadster builds and barely used it. Combination of the noisy environment plus I really don't want or need the tunes while cruising. This is talked about a lot with lots of opinions. That was my experience. The Coupe might be quieter, I don't know. If I do decide I want some tunes, I'll use a Bluetooth speaker behind the seats from my iPhone.

FYSA... I started with 1 inch spacers in the back and they were not enough. Even with the 1.5 spacer I still had to notch the frame.

Yea, I hear you. Right now the clearance looks OK. I'm watching out for that plus how the tires space to the body. But as I recall from looking at your Coupe you're running 335's, right? I'm running 315's.

[Erik W. Treves]

ah! I thought you running 335's... should be ok then ... sorry about that... didn't mean to set off the fire alarm

[edwardb]

ah! I thought you running 335's... should be ok then ... sorry about that... didn't mean to set off the fire alarm

No panic or fire alarms. But made me look closer and check a little further. My rear alignment isn't finally set, but it's close. Cranked the collars on the coilovers all the way down so the spring was as loose as possible and dropped the chassis all the way down. Probably not at full compression since the lift arms are still under there. But lower than ride height. I have 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 inches of space between the tire and the angled chassis piece I believe is the possible offender. At ride height, it's right at 2 inches. I think (hope...) I'm OK.

[Erik W. Treves]

should be ok I think... I had quite the fight to get the 335's in there so they didn't rub....not an issue until a really accelerated or had 2 people in the car. I am liking the space you have there.

[Gobozo]

Edwardb,

Can you or one of the other posters put a tape measure across the widest part of the chassis and let me know this dimension. Access to and from my build space may be critical. (I could only find the dimensions for the 33 rod)

Thanks guys.

[edwardb]

Edwardb,

Can you or one of the other posters put a tape measure across the widest part of the chassis and let me know this dimension. Access to and from my build space may be critical. (I could only find the dimensions for the 33 rod)

Thanks guys.

The absolutely widest point on the bare chassis is at the door hinge mounts. 64 inches. Next widest is at the door sills. 58 inches. Hope it fits.

[stevant]

Amazing work Paul. On top of all the questions from people like me you still have time to do some amazing work.

Thanks again for your help and inspiration. Did I tell you I prefer blue for this one?

[2bking]

I see Mike Forte is saying the Gen 3 Coyote is available now. What's the latest from your Ford contact?

[edwardb]

I see Mike Forte is saying the Gen 3 Coyote is available now. What's the latest from your Ford contact?

As of six days ago: Expect to be officially released by end of August (getting close of course) and about two weeks for quantities. Engines being received and crated, PCM's being programmed. I was a little surprised to see the posts from Mike Forte. The part numbers have been in Ford's internal system for some weeks. M-6007-M50C for the manual shift engine, M-6017-M50B for the control pack. But not visible or available to order for dealers even as late as a couple days ago. Perhaps that's just changed.

Having said that, stay tuned.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Exciting times Paul!

Quick question; after adding the spacers what did your rear wheel mounting surface to mounting surface width wind up as? Time to start looking at wheel options...

Thanks,
Jeff

[edwardb]

Exciting times Paul!

Quick question; after adding the spacers what did your rear wheel mounting surface to mounting surface width wind up as? Time to start looking at wheel options...

Thanks,
Jeff

Measured it just for you. 60-1/4 inches. That's with the Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer Wheel Spacer Kit, 25mm (1 inch) parts I'm using.

[edwardb]

Today I finished spraying Lizard Skin heat and sound insulation and got everything de-masked. There’s no sugar-coating it. Lizard Skin is a lot of work. I really like the final result, so stayed focused on that. Takes a while to get everything properly masked, then two separate days of spraying (24 hours between the sound and heat products), then clean everything up. I’ve done the previous Roadsters in my garage. Even though I was careful, and spread lots of drop clothes, still managed to sling the stuff all over the place including on the walls on the other side of the garage. The undercoat gun used for this application, along with the jelly like viscosity of the material, makes it interesting. So this time I chose to spray outside on my driveway on a great big tarp. The backdrop was the woods along the side of my driveway. So not too worried about that. Was a good plan until zero chance of precipitation turned into a shower just as I was pushing the finished chassis back into the garage. Didn’t hurt anything but would have been a disaster if 20-30 minutes earlier.

As far as the actual process, I followed Lizard Skin’s instructions, as I have before. I did a write-up a few years ago. Pretty much followed my own recommendations. https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...xperience.html. The Coupe is a little challenging, as I’ve mentioned before, because of the number of panels that don’t get installed until after the body is on. Plus there’s the roll cage to mask off. In a previous update, I described using stick-on materials in the footwells. So the Lizard Skin application was the balance of the cockpit, the hatch area, and the loose pieces to be installed later. I sprayed two coats of sound material on everything yesterday. Then 2 coats of heat material in the cockpit and loose cockpit parts and one coat in the hatch area and loose hatch parts. I’ve got just enough left over from the 2 gallon bucket of each product to spray the body headliner area. Would like to cut down on sound and mostly heat by spraying there when I get to body work.

That’s about it. Here are a bunch of pictures. First scuffed up my nice pretty powder coat where the Lizard Skin would be applied. Before anyone questions, the other side in all cases is still still shiny new powder coat and in my world is showing. I used stretch wrap film around the roll bars. That worked pretty well and I think was easier then a lot of masking tape or paper. At the last minute, decided to also put some stretch wrap film around my brand new tires since they would be rolling around where I was spraying. Glad I did. They picked up a lot of overspray material. The rest of the masking was the usual mixture of tape, paper, etc. Those are the wires for my heated seats that are wrapped and hanging out of the way.









Out on the driveway while spraying:

[edwardb]

Finished product. You can kind of see where the rain drops hit. May go away once it’s completely dry. Or not. Don't think it's an issue.









Now onward to electrical, engine, etc. And finally can start leaving things in once installed.

[Higgybulin]

Great job Paul!! Have to love Michigan weather, If you don't like how it is now wait 10 mins!!!!
Higgy

[edwardb]

Look what showed up in my garage workshop today.



If you've been following this build thread, no secret my goal has been to use the new Gen 3 Coyote crate. Over the months I’ve been following the progress closely as Ford Performance prepared for its release. I was able to establish a contact at Ford Performance who has been very gracious to let me know the status whenever I asked. They are still a couple weeks away from general public release. But late last week I was given the opportunity to purchase a Gen 3 engine and control pack in advance of the general release. Working through a dealer I completed the deal. No surprise the Gen 3 is more expensive. Yesterday the control pack was delivered. Today the engine itself. I’m just starting to digest the new instructions and what differences I’ve uncovered so far. But thought I'd throw some pictures out there. My plan right now is to drop just the engine into the Coupe chassis, like I did with #8674, to determine and finalize the best routing and layout for everything. I’ll get going on that right away.

The control pack is pretty similar to the Gen 2. Same PDB and a lot of the same connections. Same exact DBW pedal. Just one clutch switch like the later Gen 2’s. Combined ODB2 plug and MIL also like later Gen 2’s. And also simpler power connection, also as I believe is on later Gen 2’s. Differences I’ve noticed so far: The overall harness is much simpler and shorter than the early Gen 2 I have in #8674. Should fit without a lot of extra. The pigtail connection has been slimmed down to just three wires. Fuel pump, start sense, ignition sense. Still no tach wire. I asked Ford about this and they told me starting in 2015 the PCM’s didn’t have a proper tach signal for aftermarket gauges. So back to tapping one of the coil wires like before. The O2 sensors have their own harness. Unlike the Gen 2 that were attached to the engine. The instructions describe setting the fuel regulator at 65 PSI vs. 55 on the previous models. I’m guessing because of the added direct injection? But it has its own pump on the engine. Who knows. One big difference is the Bosch PCM vs the Continental PCM from before. My old company lost the contract I guess. I didn’t put the two side-by-side. But it does appear slightly larger. From what I hear at Ford Performance, a lot going on there compared to before with the additions to the Gen 3. I’ll describe more as I learn more and proceed with the installation. But here’s a pic with the parts received. The stock air box pieces are still in the box. Other than the MAF sensor, nothing usable. Too bad.



The engine itself I’d seen before at Autorama and also posted pictures. But a little different now that it’s actually in my garage. Not a lot to say at this point since I literally just unwrapped it a couple hours ago. Nice to see Ford shipped it with a proper engine cradle vs. blocks on the skid. Some new plumbing to figure out. Looks like the CMCV setup is plumbed differently. That was a subject of a bunch of forum posts with the Gen 2. Looks like we’ll get to start that again! Obviously the top of the heads are now completely covered with wiring, plumbing, etc. because of the DI. Most have seen the new UFO looking engine cover for the Gen 3. Will think about what to do after it’s in the chassis. One major thing I noticed, and I hadn’t learned about this before, is that the 2018 Mustang manual setup has a dual mass flywheel and twin disc clutch. You can see the different flywheel in the pics. Will have to figure out what this means. Nice upgrade, but hopefully doesn’t affect my already on-hand QuickTime bell housing and Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing. I purchased the Coyote engine lift brackets offered on the forum by TD Motion. Decided those would work better than the homemade ones I used before. Just bolted them on and they fit perfectly. Here are pictures and will provide more updates later as I dig into it.

[q4stix]

So cool! Glad to see it fit perfectly into your build timeline!

I have a McLeod twin disk clutch setup ready for mine and it's supposed to fit in the same Quicktime bellhousing. With the Tilton being adjustable, I think you're safe.

[P100DHG]

So it’s definitely not the prettiest engine ever. Any ideas on how you’ll tackle the aesthetics? Sorry but I have to ask. I’m in the same boat. I’m imagining how to make this look right and you are miles ahead of me so what’s your thoughts?

[edwardb]

So it’s definitely not the prettiest engine ever. Any ideas on how you’ll tackle the aesthetics? Sorry but I have to ask. I’m in the same boat. I’m imagining how to make this look right and you are miles ahead of me so what’s your thoughts?

You're right. It's not going to win any beauty contests. Especially not at this stage. But then neither were the previous Coyote versions. Like most modern computer controlled EFI engines, there are wires and hoses all over the place. With the added direct injection (DI) on the Gen 3, there are even more. No longer possible to use coil covers as on previous Coyotes. Which helped some and could themselves be dress-up pieces. Note that in the one side view picture, the PCM harness connection is just draped over the head. That won't be there or nearly as visible once the engine is installed. But to your point, I don't have too many thoughts about this yet. I'm going to get the engine into the chassis and see how much really shows. That makes a difference. I'm not expecting to use Ford's new top cover. At least not in stock form. There's even more going on in the basically wide open Coupe engine compartment. Once the front cowl is raised. A/C hoses, heater hoses, radiator hoses, battery cables, chassis wiring, the list goes on. It's going to be a busy place no matter what. I'll do my best to keep it all neat and organized and see where it goes from there. Not much else to say at this point.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Measured it just for you. 60-1/4 inches. That's with the Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer Wheel Spacer Kit, 25mm (1 inch) parts I'm using.

Thank you! Very much appreciated

Jeff

[edwardb]

Have spent some hours since checking how things fit after receiving the Gen 3 Coyote yesterday. This is where the excitement of doing something new meets with reality. Still a long ways to go, but thought I’d post what I’ve learned so far. Some things seem OK. But a couple of challenges. Open to suggestions here!!!

First the good. Energy Suspension motor mounts, QuickTime bell housing, A/C compressor, Moroso oil pan bolt pattern, all fit OK based on actual assembly check. Exhaust headers, starter motor, alternator, location for KRC power steering, radiator and heater and PCV hose locations and connections all LOOK exactly the same comparing to the Gen 2 Coyote in #8674. Obviously I’ll be checking with real parts once received. But looks OK for now. I’ll also mention I studied the vacuum connections on the CMCV setup, and it appears to be connected to a vacuum source right from the factory. I'll need to confirm, but looks like this won’t be something that needs to be addressed on the Gen 3. This has tripped up and confused a lot of builders before. Now hopefully no longer. I removed the oil cooler, like was necessary before. That also is exactly the same needing the shorter oil filter adapter. I also learned from my last build and caught all the oil in a brand new 5 gallon plastic pail with a sealing lid. Just over 2-1/2 gallons drained out. I’ll put it back in once the engine is installed. That’s $50 or so of 5w-20 synthetic oil that I didn’t make allowances to save the last time. Lesson learned.

Now for the challenges. I’ve uncovered two (so far…) and both are relatively significant.

1. The dual mass flywheel (already installed from the factory) and twin disc clutch (purchased separately) new with the Gen 3 Coyote will NOT work with my already purchased QuickTime bell housing and T-56 transmission. The input shaft on the T-56 is 4.5625 inches from the face of the bell housing to where the shaft would be against the race of the pilot bearing. With the QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing on the engine, that same distance with the dual mass flywheel is 3.375 inches. A difference of 1.1875 and no possible way to work. The RM-8080 bell is the only option for the Coyote + T-56 combination at this time. The GM version of the T-56 (the only other one available) is almost an inch longer input than the Ford version I have. So no relief on either front right now. My plan at the moment is to remove the dual mass flywheel and replace with a M-6375-M50 billet flywheel like I used on #8674. I’m HOPING the crankshaft has the same 8-bolt connection underneath the currently installed dual mass flywheel and the usual pocket for the pilot bearing. The bolts are large Torx heads that I don’t have a bit for. I’ll get to the store tomorrow and get them off. Holding my breath. I’m happy with the Ford Performance billet flywheel and clutch (dual friction Centerforce part) in #8674, so as long as it fits I’ll be OK with it. Maybe the dual mass flywheel has some eBay or Craigslist value.

2. I was warned about this one, and turned out to be true. Like most everyone doing Coyote builds, I used the low profile Moroso 20570 with Moroso 24570 pickup on #8674. Had the same parts ready to go and now have found Ford has changed the oil pump on the Gen 3 Coyote. No longer uses a bolt-on pickup but instead a slip-in fitting that’s part of the new composite oil pan. Additionally, the new oil pan has the windage tray/pan gasket as part of the pan where it was separate before. Easy enough to buy and install the windage tray/gasket. Not so easy on the pickup. I just sent a message to Moroso asking if they have plans to offer a new/updated pickup. Not optimistic, at least in the short term, but see what happens. Might be possible to modify the current Moroso piece, but haven’t studied that yet. Need to proceed with caution here as an improper connection would quickly destroy the engine. I'm going to leave the stock pan on the engine when I do my initial mock-up, so I'll see just how far it hangs below the frame. Expecting that to be a no-go, but I'll check. So no answer on this one yet. Here are couple pictures.

Current Moroso parts with Gen 3 oil pan.



Underside of Gen 3 engine showing new pump and pickup.

[Matt K.]

Paul - is that a plastic pickup tube on the factory pan? Wow. Four-bolt mains next to a plastic pick-up tube. I wonder if that's standard practice in the automotive industry these days?

[shark92651]

I know you have to be happy to finally have that bad boy in the garage, hopefully you can get the parts compatibility figured out without too much pain/cost. Have you contacted FFR to see if/when they are looking at Gen 3 compatibility?

[edwardb]

Paul - is that a plastic pickup tube on the factory pan? Wow. Four-bolt mains next to a plastic pick-up tube. I wonder if that's standard practice in the automotive industry these days?

Yes, that's a plastic pick-up. Attached to the plastic oil pan. I can't say how common it is. Don't usually buy a new engine and then take it apart. These things undergo significant long term testing. So not too worried about it. But agree it's a little different. BTW, not just 4-bolt mains in the Coyote. Also side bolts through the block into the bearing caps. Pretty stout.

I know you have to be happy to finally have that bad boy in the garage, hopefully you can get the parts compatibility figured out without too much pain/cost. Have you contacted FFR to see if/when they are looking at Gen 3 compatibility?

Factory Five does have a Gen 3 in house. But no control pack. So they haven't started looking at it yet.

[q4stix]

1. The dual mass flywheel (already installed from the factory) and twin disc clutch (purchased separately) new with the Gen 3 Coyote will NOT work with my already purchased QuickTime bell housing and T-56 transmission. The input shaft on the T-56 is 4.5625 inches from the face of the bell housing to where the shaft would be against the race of the pilot bearing. With the QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing on the engine, that same distance with the dual mass flywheel is 3.375 inches. A difference of 1.1875 and no possible way to work. The RM-8080 bell is the only option for the Coyote + T-56 combination at this time. The GM version of the T-56 (the only other one available) is almost an inch longer input than the Ford version I have. So no relief on either front right now. My plan at the moment is to remove the dual mass flywheel and replace with a M-6375-M50 billet flywheel like I used on #8674. I’m HOPING the crankshaft has the same 8-bolt connection underneath the currently installed dual mass flywheel and the usual pocket for the pilot bearing.

Hmm, that is interesting. It looks like Ford decided to move the pilot bearing to the center mass location of the dual clutch flywheel. Maybe a bit strange but I can understand how that would support the longer flywheel and clutch better. I'll have to take a look at my twin disk clutch and see if I can spot the differences. Maybe it's the fact that it's a dual mass flywheel that is causing the extra length even with it looking 'dished'

[edwardb]

Hmm, that is interesting. It looks like Ford decided to move the pilot bearing to the center mass location of the dual clutch flywheel. Maybe a bit strange but I can understand how that would support the longer flywheel and clutch better. I'll have to take a look at my twin disk clutch and see if I can spot the differences. Maybe it's the fact that it's a dual mass flywheel that is causing the extra length even with it looking 'dished'

That's definitely the reason my bell housing/T-56 combination won't work. The pilot bearing is moved way out. Confirmed today by taking it apart. See the following update.

[edwardb]

Today I was able to get the Gen 3 Coyote into the Gen 3 Coupe chassis. All by myself. But then no flywheel, clutch, bell housing or transmission. Just the engine itself. So that’s cheating. I’ll definitely get help when it’s time to put the whole thing in. But this let’s me work on placement for everything in the engine compartment. Glad I’m taking this step because things are pretty tight.

What I learned today: In general, the fit isn’t as tight as the Roadster. It’s close to sheet metal in a few places, but nothing like the clearances in the Roadster. Exhaust header bolt access is pretty open on the passenger side, and all but the very back one on the drivers side also pretty accessible. For now I’m going to leave the original studs. The only one in question will be that back one on the DS. May shorten it or just use a regular bolt for that one spot. Oil filter is accessible. Without the factory cooler of course. Front dress on the engine (alternator, PS, A/C) all open and accessible. Starter motor also is fine. The direct injection (DI) pump on the PS head, discussed at some length in earlier posts, clears OK. Amazingly similar to the computer generated plots from Factory Five I posted. But the connector body attached to it was pretty hard against the top chassis rail as the engine was going down. So chose to move it out of the way to not damage anything. It’s a diaphragm style pump with a plunger that's actuated by the cam. With the two nuts removed, and the attached fuel line, lifts out of the way pretty easily. Once the engine is in, goes back together and clears everything just fine.

Over the next days I’ll be determining locations for the remaining components. I don’t see any choice but to put the PCM on the PS above the headers. Same as typically done with the Roadster. Will be congested over there with heat and A/C lines and components. But don’t see any other options. With the Roadster, it was necessary to remove the steering shaft when dropping in the Coyote. With this Coupe, not a hard interference point. I didn’t move it this time. But it’s a little bit in the way and will move it out of the way in the next round. The PDB will be somewhere on the firewall or foobox corners. Tight but should fit. Fuel pump regulator will be on the corner of the DS footbox. Not much else to say. Lots of work ahead now getting this done and as neat and orderly as possible.

Here are pictures from all sides. Similar to other builds with the Coyote engine. Just the added spaghetti from the Gen 3 Coyote.











As can be seen in the pics, the tops of the heads are above the frame rails. Without the coil covers as the previous Coyotes, all the wiring and plumbing is hanging out for all to see. Don’t think much can be done about that. I don’t think the Gen 3 cover with the wings over that area would help at all. In fact, I’m thinking would look pretty out of place. Still an open subject. Probably will only try to do something over the intake itself.

Speaking of open subjects, here’s an update on the two issues I raised in my previous post:

Incompatible Moroso oil pan pickup due to the different oil pump in the Gen 3 Coyote: Heard back from Moroso. They are planning to offer an updated pickup. But no timing was offered. I asked for possible timing in a follow-up. At this point I’m not too optimistic that’s going to be a solution in time for this build. After staring at it for a while and thinking about it, I’m pretty confident I can modify the existing Moroso pickup with some tubing and my friend the welder down the street. Tearing the engine down and changed back to the former pump is absolutely not in the cards.

Incompatible dual mass flywheel: Today I removed the factory provided dual mass flywheel. Would have had to do that anyway to install the QuickTime block plate. Even if it would have worked with my bell housing and T-56 transmission. As best I can tell, the end of the crankshaft is unchanged from the previous version. Maybe even the same part. I’m confident a regular Coyote flywheel can be installed along with a standard clutch. Planning the same parts as used in #8674 as already mentioned. The only thing missing is the pilot bearing. The one in the dual mass flywheel is different. But that’s a standard part (M-7600-C) so will get one along with the other parts and all should be good. I temporarily mounted the block plate and bell and checked the dimension compared to the input shaft of the T-56. It’s perfect. So this is nearing resolution. This is what it looked like under the dual mass flywheel with my QuickTime block plate. I had already purchased new flywheel bolts.



One other difference I noticed. There was another connection and device of some kind in addition to the oil pressure sensor. In the area of the oil filter. Removed the part and did a little digging. Turns out it’s an oil control valve, and appears to be used to route oil into the now removed oil cooler. Seems the F150 version of the Coyote has this valve, and now it’s on the Mustang version as well. Even though it’s not doing anything, I’m going to leave it in place just in case the PCM is expecting it to be there. Same for the oil pressure sensor. For later versions of the Gen 2, instructions were to remove the stock sensor and replace with the required unit for the dash gauge. Apparently the PCM wasn’t using this signal. I don’t know if the Gen 3 is the same, and at this stage might not be able to get a good answer. Simple solution is to leave it and T in the added sensor. Also note the little heat shields around the sensors. Several of those on the engine.

Update March 2020: The Gen 3 Coyote requires the OE oil pressure sender to remain. So a T fitting is required to add the gauge sender. Discussed later in the build thread.



Still a long ways to go. But feel a lot better about this than I did at this time yesterday.

[kehenline]

glad to see your gen three coyote has arrived. I ordered my coupe and have a 9-30-18 build date. delivery to Fort Wayne should be by oct 10. I ordered with the coyote engine mount so will be closely following your install process. looking forward to following your progress.

[edwardb]

glad to see your gen three coyote has arrived. I ordered my coupe and have a 9-30-18 build date. delivery to Fort Wayne should be by oct 10. I ordered with the coyote engine mount so will be closely following your install process. looking forward to following your progress.

Hello to Fort Wayne. Spent a number of years there through two different job stints. Both of our sons were born there and graduated from Northrop High School. Congrats on your upcoming Coupe delivery and build. You're in for a great adventure. Coyote uses the same mounts as other supported engines. But lots of part differences of course.

[kehenline]

thanks, paul. this will be a new experience for me and I appreciate your encouragement. Northrup is still running strong!

[edwardb]

Spent some time today dragging parts out of the basement that had been mocked up before and started putting them where they’ll eventually stay. This is where the “One bite at a time…” saying has to be followed. There’s a lot to do but just go one step at a time. I’m feeling relieved I decided to drop the engine in for this stage. It’s tight plus a lot going on. I never would have been able to envision it (or get it right…) without that big chunk in there. Here’s what I’ve learned so far.

Mounted the radiator sheet metal and radiator/condenser. It will be coming off one more time to put the engine in permanently. But I wanted to check out the cool tubes from Boig now that I have the engine locations to aim at. Plus the routing of the upper and lower radiator hoses affects other things. Great news. Both of the Boig tubes fit perfectly! Bob promised they would, and he was right. I was mostly worried about that tiny window to get the lower hose through by the frame and sway bar. But it fits and the alignment to the engine is great. The upper hose also works out well with the cool tube and the control pack provided upper hose. The routing is excellent. Note I’m not using a T-filler since I’m using the Moroso Mustang pressure tank and Mustang hose routing. Same as #8674. Looks like the tank is going to fit in the center under the two cross pieces. Then the cold air intake will fit over into the opening on the DS. Similar to how it’s done in the Roadster.



Draped the various wiring harnesses into their preliminary locations, including the main RF harness, the front RF harness, and the main Coyote harness + PDB. Tentatively I’m planning to put the PDB on the firewall above the DS footbox. Then route the main cable behind the firewall and break into the engine compartment by the PS footbox. That will keep the majority of the cable hidden plus take up a little of the slack. I put enough of the heat and A/C components in to see where they’ll be and have to avoid. I see no choice but to put the Coyote PCM on the PS side above the header area. Very similar to where it's typically installed in a Roadster, as I mentioned before. Will have to get creative with some type of mounting bracket.



These pictures are just overall of what it looks like now and what I have to get buttoned down. Wiring and related doesn't bother me. Actually kind of enjoy it. But it's easy to see why some get intimidated at this stage. It should look quite different when done.
 






One final comment about a prior subject. The dual mass flywheel that came with the Gen 3 Coyote. As already stated, I’m not going to be able to use it. Ford did make some changes to the MT-82 6-speed for 2018 that’s used in the Mustang to address some issues and make it better. Obviously at the same time they must have shortened the input to match this setup. Perhaps that new MT-82 will be an option some may want to consider for their Gen 3 Coyote builds. Just for grins though I put the now loose dual mass flywheel on a scale. That bad boy weighs 34 pounds. The previous Coyote’s nodular flywheel I measured at 29 pounds. The Ford Performance M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel I have in #8674 and will now use for this build weighs 20 pounds. I’m not a fan of the real light aluminum flywheels for street drivers. But going the other direction to 34 pounds seems really heavy. I probably would have still used it if it fit. But not sure it’s the best for these builds. Comments from someone who knows more about this than me? (Wouldn’t take too much.)

We have a busy couple weeks coming up, including some time away. So this will probably be the last update for a bit. Plus I have a lot to do to make a dent.

[kehenline]

following this and your previous roadster build it looks like you need to install / remove the engine several times to get everything fitted properly. how many time do you typically need to install and remove? I assume these are all without the transmission until the final install? thanks for your input

[edwardb]

following this and your previous roadster build it looks like you need to install / remove the engine several times to get everything fitted properly. how many time do you typically need to install and remove? I assume these are all without the transmission until the final install? thanks for your input

I really can't say what's typical here. The #8674 20th Anniversary build was an early Gen 2 Coyote. Now the Coupe with an early Gen 3 Coyote. Both before they were being widely used or had instructions updated for these versions or other builders I could learn from. There are some similarities in all Coyote builds. But each version brings a couple of new wrinkles. Plus, in the case of #8674, was my first attempt at installing any Coyote. So for both builds it made sense to me and my build style to put the engine in before alot was finalized. Then determine wire routing, components mounting, etc. from there. In both cases, I chose to do engine only (e.g. less bell housing, trans, etc.) mainly because I'm by myself and that's something I can do by myself. Putting the complete engine in isn't hard and frankly would be better. But takes a couple more people to lift, push, pull, etc. Have friends I can call on for that, but try to keep it to only once. The SBF builds before these the engine went in once and that was it.

So bottom line, do what you're comfortable with and helps you think and work through the build. It's not particularly unusual for guys to take the engine in/out several times during the build. Also not unusual for it to go in once and be done. But the other comment I'd make is it's not hard to take the engine in and out. Especially before the body is on. In the case of the Coupe, without the front cowl. With the proper lift (I use a 2-ton HF shop crane) and the proper preparation, they go in/out in an hour or less.

[kehenline]

thanks, paul. that make sense. for a first timer like me, it wouldn't be hard to forge ahead without ever putting the engine in and then finding that something has to be redone because it is in the way of the engine. your experience is so valuable to this forum.

[edwardb]

Was away for several days visiting family. But back home to work, plan, and spend money. Making some progress. Still a long way to go, but here’s where I’m at today.

Dual-mass flywheel: Removed because it won’t work for me, as described before, and have received the following parts, all from Ford Performance:

• M-6375-M50 Lightweight Billet 8 Bolt Flywheel
• M-7600-C Roller Pilot Bearing - High Load - 4.6L/5.4L/5.0L4
• M-7560-T46 Clutch Assembly 26 spline, 11.0 inches (Note: Centerforce dual friction with Ford branding. Nice clutch.)
• M-6397-B46 Pressure Plate Bolts and Dowels
• M-6379-C Flywheel Bolts

I don’t have everything assembled yet, and won’t until the engine is back out. But I’ve checked and measured everything and all appears to fit perfectly. Note as I mentioned before, this is the exact setup I have in #8674. So this just appears to confirm nothing has changed at this end of the Coyote once that dual-mass flywheel is removed. I mentioned before the 2018 Gen 3 Coyote also uses a twin disk clutch. Just to be clear, that doesn’t come with the crate motor. The previous Coyote crates didn’t include a clutch either. So no change there. The only difference in the shopping list above compared to previous Coyote versions is the pilot bearing and the flywheel. Previous versions already had a pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Now you have to add it. Previous versions had a nodular flywheel which many used. I did choose to upgrade to the lighter billet steel version listed above for #8674. So for me wasn’t a difference there. I’ll know for sure when it’s time to assemble all of the above, but I’m 99% confident this issue is resolved.

Moroso oil pickup tube: I heard back from Moroso a second time. First time they confirmed they knew their pickup tube wasn’t compatible with the Gen 3 Coyote. Said they would have an updated part sometime. I followed up asking “When?” and the answer was "TBD. No schedule at this time." So this will hopefully be a solution for other builders. But I’m not optimistic it will be for me. My plan now is to modify the existing pickup. I’ve just ordered a couple pieces of tubing from McMaster. I’m going to use the composite oil pan with the new style connection to make a fixture and cut/weld the old style Moroso pickup to fit the new pump and the Moroso low profile pan. I’m confident this will work fine. Will provide updates when completed.

Since the last update, received the Ford Performance M-8600-M50BALT 5.0 Alternator Kit, same as used on previous Coyotes. It fits fine. Also since the last update, have determined the location and method for mounting the PCM. I’m going to make a bracket that sandwiches it against the chassis tube in the location pictured previously. Will provide updates when completed. I’ve started the modification to the DBW module (accelerator pedal) and am using some ideas from another builder to re-use the existing pedal rather than the FFR supplied pedal piece. Looks like it’s going to work well. I’ll finalize that later when I have easier access to the footbox. One surprise (disappointment…) is that FFR put a nice mounting plate in the footbox that exactly matches the mounting screws on the Coyote DBW. Clearly they’re expecting lots of people to use a Coyote and DBW module. Unfortunately, it’s about 1/2-inch too high. Mounted in the holes provided, the connector for the DBW runs into the steering column. Easy enough fix to drill new holes. But missed it by that much… I've also decided to go with an Odyssey battery. The stock location is in the front, but height is somewhat limited by the steering rack. The Odyssey PC925T fits nicely. Same one recommended for the Hot Rod, and recommended by lots of builders. Small and relatively light.

New issues/findings: The throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote appears to be another change. The inlet is the same diameter. But it’s angled UP 8-9 degrees more than the previous Coyotes. So some care is needed to use a right angle connector that turns down quickly because the underside of the cowl is already pretty close to the throttle body. The FFR listed Spectre parts, which I have in #8674, don’t look like they will fit. Both because of that and also because of the chassis bar in front of the engine. I’ve looked at a number of other aftermarket cold air intakes (Rousch, JLT, BBK, etc.) and doesn’t look like they’ll fit either. Granted one of my issues is I’m also trying to install the Moroso radiator pressure tank. So have to work around that too. After some research and lots of measuring, have ordered some parts from Treadstone Performance that I think (hope) will work. They just shipped so don’t have an update yet. But will when received and checked out.

Next finding, and last one for this update, is the famous Gen 3 Coyote engine cover. I went ahead and ordered one with the other parts listed above. Popped it on last night. First impressions are that it doesn’t look “too bad.” (Be nice when you see it. Remember what your Mother taught you. If you can't say anything nice...) But looks like the front outside corners of the “wings” hit the underside of the front cowl. Right now I’m just mocking up the location of the front cowl as best I can, so it’s possible it might barely fit when the cowl is actually installed. But it’s really close. The wings also really don’t do too much to cover up the wiring and tubing on the top of the heads. So my tentative plan for now is that I’m going to cut the wings off. I actually think it will look decent at that point. I do like the cleaner lines and sharper styling of the new cover compared to previous versions. With it cut off (I added lines in the picture below to show where I’m thinking to trim it) it will cover up some things and I think look OK. Probably will get some kind of custom painting on it like #8674. Without the wings, I also think it will clear the underside of the cowl. I’m not going to do anything with the cover for now. Will wait until I’m further along to cut and finish. But that’s the initial idea/impression. And just in case someone suggests changing the intake to something different (and better looking…) the Gen 3 stock intake is changed from previous versions and is getting great reviews in multiple tests. One of many changes making the Gen 3 closer to the GT350. Some are even using it as an upgrade to previous Gen Coyotes. So changing the intake isn’t going to happen for multiple reasons. Here are pictures. Onward and upward.