Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report

[edwardb]

Thank you so much. So you use it to fill in the open voids?

Short answer, yes. But need to use a little judgement and use it only for larger voids and certain kinds of repairs. Also works great for bonding things to the body. Maybe not so common with the Coupe build that I've found so far. But have used it several times on the Roadster. Like the side louver mounts. But don't think of it like body filler, e.g. Rage Gold or whatever. It cures very hard. And while it can be sanded (sort of...) you want to tool it on to where it requires as little sanding as possible. Maybe none. It doesn't blend out like body filler. My paint guy doesn't mind me using it. But you might want to check with yours. Often paint shops don't want the customer putting any product on the body. Especially if it's going to cause more work.

I just searched it. I found it starting with Marine.

Right. I left that out explaining what the acronym stood for. The 3M link I provided gave the complete name.

[edwardb]

Pretty intense work since the last update getting the body fitted. It’s what I expected and exactly what others have recommended. In other words, don’t do anything in isolation. There are a lot of moving pieces and interactions. Changing one thing affects something else almost in all cases. I’m happy with where I’m at, but still have a ways to go.

As I showed in the last update, I set the rear part of the body onto the chassis like Factory Five shows in the instructions. Then worked on fitting the nose. Once I felt everything was a close as it was going to get, after trimming the back edge of the nose and messing with everything for a couple days, locked down the rear body mounts on the rear section. It ended up with the exact dimensions they show above the rear hatch floor, centered very closely on the rear suspension, and approximately 1/4-inch from the posts at the front of the door. So good job there Factory Five. Made a couple of minor changes. I liked the rear body mounts on the inside of the chassis brackets better than the outside. Centered the bolts a little better in the vents. Also instead of trimming the body to fit around the tubes in front of the rear wheels, I found if I trimmed the chassis tubes just slightly the body slid over them without cutting. Didn’t take enough metal to affect the strength in any way. Just a sharper angle. Maybe 1/4-inch or so at the bottom angling to zero at the top. Also I’m going to use 1/4-inch nutserts to hold the body along the door opening rather than just the smaller self-tapping screws suggested. Going to use three. One at each end and one in the middle. Right now I just have it cleco’d in case I need to make any final adjustments for the door fitting. The supplied carpet wraps over that edge and covers them. I test fit the rear splash guards. Looks like they're almost perfect. Fit the body contour very well. The tab at the bottom is a little off. But that's an easy adjustment.

With that moved to the nose. I found it helped a lot to install the lower front splash shields, so drilled and cleco’d those in place. Helps to hold the pontoons more in their final location. Some discussion about whether to put the shield on the inside or outside of the front of the pontoon. They’re designed to go on the inside, and I think I’m going to leave them there. The paint on the front of the pontoon will be exposed. Maybe try some protective film or just paint with undercoat. We’ll see.



With the nose located the best I could, started working on getting the hinges installed. I noted earlier in this build thread that the angle of the hinges (basically 90 degrees) isn't the same angle as where they’re installed in the body. Plus I was afraid they would hit the sheet metal when hinged open. More on that later. After thinking about several options, threw back to my woodworking days and made some wedges that filled the angle. I removed the powder coat off the bottom of the hinges and bonded a piece of 3/4-inch plywood to the bottom. Good old JB Weld of course. With that cured, cut the angle on the bottom using my bandsaw. The gap is 1/2-inch at the back going to zero at the front. I cut them leaving 5/8-inch at the back and 1/8-inch at the front. This also helped to locate the rod ends better. The threads on the top nut didn’t go all the way through. With this wedge, the hinges fit perfectly between the back of the fog light buckets and the bottom of the cowl. Located and drilled the mounting holes with the bolts and spacers in the rod end on the chassis. Then I took a step that not everyone will agree with and maybe I don’t even recommend. But I decided to bond the hinges to the body. So roughed up the mounting locations, mixed up some HSRF, and bolted the hinges in place. They won’t be coming out again. These hinges are obviously critical since they hold the entire nose in place, plus wanting to maximize my plywood wedge “fix” decided this gave me a little more margin. Note that I still have up/down and front/back adjustment. It’s just side/side that’s now fixed. But I’m confident I have it centered as best as it can be. Also note I'm going to be finishing the inside of the nose. Details TBD still, but the visible edges of my wood pieces will be finished and unseen.

With the hinges now fitted and attached, tested the tilt nose function in preparation to install the gas struts. What happened was exactly what I expected based on other build threads. The nose only tilted up this much before hitting the A/C condenser. Not far behind would have been the radiator.



Like I say, wasn’t surprised about this. But am a little surprised this isn’t mentioned in the build manual. At least not anywhere that I’ve found. After cutting enough to clear the condenser and then the radiator, still was not all the way open and hit the aluminum panels from the radiator tunnel that extend below the frame in that area. Also not a surprise based on my earlier review of the nose hinges. So off came the nose again, and I trimmed and touched up the sheet metal on each side. I took the sheet metal back to the same depth as the face of the radiator and then also along the frame at the top. It would be possible cut less, e.g. just enough to clear where it interferes when the nose opens. But IMO this looks a little more sanitary and the missing sheet metal in that area doesn’t hurt anything. I cut it back on both sides like this pic from the right side:



With a couple more tweaks (I’m getting good at lifting that nose on and off…) finally had it opening as far as it was supposed to. Cuts along the bottom of the body nose look like this. The angle on the one side is to clear the lower hose connection for the condenser.



It’s a pretty big cut, but with the nose closed and the car on the ground, completely unseen. With it opening properly, proceeded to mount the gas struts. Here too I made a couple small changes. The instructions show putting the frame ball socket mount on the inside of the rail. This routed the strut very close to the corner of the chassis, to the point of possibly interfering. I had previously noted that Ron E mounted them on the outside of the frame rail on his SEMA build. Did the same and worked perfectly. Also, for the ball socket mount in the nose itself, I made matching steel plates and used high strength rivets to mount, sandwiching the glass between. Also threw in a little HSRF since they won't be coming out again. I felt better about this than using screws and bolts. Again, probably would have been fine. But you know… Looks like this now with the gas struts working.



The nose opens and closes very nicely. So happy about that, and the struts clear everything inside when closed. One thing I did notice is that when closed the struts pushed the gap between the nose and body open some. I’ll adjust the hinges and that should be fine. Put the wheels back on the car and off the jack stands. Like what I’m seeing.

[edwardb]

I have the doors about 90% fitted. My approach is to trim them just enough to fit into the opening, e.g. with little/no gaps. Then get the hinges installed and adjusted. Then set the gap all around. I have the first part done. Next will be the hinges. I’m very happy with how the doors fit. No major issues there at all. The match to the body is very good. Also, I need to get the nose fitting completed, the latches installed, and then by adjusting the thickness of the bumpers, get the nose to body match completed. I’m happy with how that’s turning out as well. As far as I can tell now, I have only one issue remaining with the body fitment, and that’s the pontoon on the right (passenger) side. The gap is good at the back, but basically a friction fit at the front. With all my massaging of everything, that’s the one thing I just couldn’t get out. The left side is perfect and parallel. I might be able to get the required clearance with some sanding. But I kind of doubt it. May require some minor glass work. We’ll see. The other general comment I’ll make about body fitting, after spending the last week at it, is that much like the Roadster the Coupe body is not completely symmetrical. There are differences, I would say especially the nose from side to side. Nothing that will be visible or noticeable once it’s done. But when you measure, you’ll find what I mean. I always tell people this is part of the charm of these cars. Just stay with it and find the locations that provide the best overall fit.

One other general comment about the body on the Coupe. It's pretty clear that once the main body is installed, would be very difficult and basically impractical to remove. I've mentioned before about how some of the sheet metal isn't installed until after the body is on. Then there's carpet over that. Plus a glued in windshield. Probably other factors. Don't think it's an issue. And it would be easy enough to take the nose off. But the main body looks to me like it's one time and done. After paint of course.

In conclusion, yet another tool shout out. For my previous builds, when I needed to cut fiber glass I used my Dremel. Lightweight I know but did the job. With quite a bit more on this build, plus wanting to upgrade, added the Milwaukee 2522 M12 Fuel 3-inch Compact Cut Off Tool to my collection. I guess I won’t be happy until I have the whole M12 collection. Getting close I think… This thing is awesome for cutting fiberglass and I’m sure will use it for metal and more in the future. Think of it like a Dremel on max steroids and much improved ergonomics. I was hoping the base and vacuum adapter would help keep dust down in the shop while cutting. It does, but had trouble seeing the cut lines. So did most of my work without it. But still highly recommended. The brushless motors they’re using now along with the lithium batteries are pretty amazing.



With that, the Coupe build is going into a bit of a pause. Need to finish getting the Roadster ready, get the trailer out and serviced, and then to Autorama next weekend. Always enjoy that. All good timing, because then the Roadster and trailer will be ready for the trek to the Texas meet just a few weeks from now. Looking forward to that plus a break from the winter cold.

[freds]

Hi Paul. Please list the dimensions of the cut-out you made to clear the radiator and A/C hose connections. I'd like to piggy back on the work you did lifting the cowl on and off.
Thanks, fred

[edwardb]

Hi Paul. Please list the dimensions of the cut-out you made to clear the radiator and A/C hose connections. I'd like to piggy back on the work you did lifting the cowl on and off.
Thanks, fred

I thought about listing the dimensions in my original post, but decided not to. Since you ask, I'll describe what I did with one huge caveat. Please check very carefully that these dimensions are correct for your build. I've been working on getting the nose placed for a couple weeks now (off and on, not continuously...) and finally have it where I want it. But to be honest it's been a bit of a struggle. Capped off by once I thought I had it where I wanted it, I added the gas structs and that pushed it forward 1/4-inch or so when closed compared to not having the struts installed. I mentioned this before. So ended up adjusting the hinges again and it's as good as it's going to get. The left (driver) side pivot bolt is at the end of it's adjustment range. The right (passenger side) isn't quite. I also found the wheel lips are asymmetrical side-to-side. With everything else centered, the right (passenger side) overhangs more than the other side. Not a lot and it won't be noticeable when done and everything else is pretty good. But just one example of how you have to balance the fit everywhere and find what works best for you.

So having said that, my cuts on the underside of the cowl are 2-inches in from the outside edge of the hinge brackets. Right up to the metal base on both sides. Even cut into it slightly on the left side. Then another 1-1/8 inches in from the inside of the base of the hinge brackets to clear the A/C condenser. Plus the angle on on the right side, per my picture, to clear the hose connection on the condenser. That angle also cut slightly into the base of the hinge bracket. You'll also need to cut the aluminum panels on each side of the radiator as I showed previously. Once that's all done, also be careful about the placement of the connections for the gas struts. Move the outside of the frame rail as I showed. Also watch the length. With the nose all the up as far as it would go (e.g. the base of the hinge very close to the chassis sheet metal and radiator) I found the frame location needed to be moved back about 3/4-inch. Otherwise the strut would have been pushing hard against the chassis and the radiator right behind it. I suspect there is a lot of variation in all of this, and what I'm citing is my personal experience. Yours maybe different. So check carefully before cutting or drilling anything. That's my main advice. Good luck.

[freds]

Greatly appreciate your very valuable description and guidance. I fully realize that I have to essentially do exactly what you have done as no two builds and especially bodies, are identical. But what a great "road map" for me and others.
THANKS
fred

I thought about listing the dimensions in my original post, but decided not to. Since you ask, I'll describe what I did with one huge caveat. Please check very carefully that these dimensions are correct for your build. I've been working on getting the nose placed for a couple weeks now (off and on, not continuously...) and finally have it where I want it. But to be honest it's been a bit of a struggle. Capped off by once I thought I had it where I wanted it, I added the gas structs and that pushed it forward 1/4-inch or so when closed compared to not having the struts installed. I mentioned this before. So ended up adjusting the hinges again and it's as good as it's going to get. The left (driver) side pivot bolt is at the end of it's adjustment range. The right (passenger side) isn't quite. I also found the wheel lips are asymmetrical side-to-side. With everything else centered, the right (passenger side) overhangs more than the other side. Not a lot and it won't be noticeable when done and everything else is pretty good. But just one example of how you have to balance the fit everywhere and find what works best for you.

So having said that, my cuts on the underside of the cowl are 2-inches in from the outside edge of the hinge brackets. Right up to the metal base on both sides. Even cut into it slightly on the left side. Then another 1-1/8 inches in from the inside of the base of the hinge brackets to clear the A/C condenser. Plus the angle on on the right side, per my picture, to clear the hose connection on the condenser. That angle also cut slightly into the base of the hinge bracket. You'll also need to cut the aluminum panels on each side of the radiator as I showed previously. Once that's all done, also be careful about the placement of the connections for the gas struts. Move the outside of the frame rail as I showed. Also watch the length. With the nose all the up as far as it would go (e.g. the base of the hinge very close to the chassis sheet metal and radiator) I found the frame location needed to be moved back about 3/4-inch. Otherwise the strut would have been pushing hard against the chassis and the radiator right behind it. I suspect there is a lot of variation in all of this, and what I'm citing is my personal experience. Yours maybe different. So check carefully before cutting or drilling anything. That's my main advice. Good luck.

[edwardb]

Been a busy week or two since the last update, but still plugging away when I’ve had time. Still doing body work. Feel like I’m making a career out of it. But starting to see the light at the end maybe. Also lost some time because our main home desktop computer decided to give up. After extensive troubleshooting, have determined the mother board died. Grrr. It’s 5-6-7 years old (don’t remember exactly) so not particularly new. But still a pain. New one on the way and then more time restoring everything back. Thankfully my laptop keeps ticking.

Before the build update, first a couple words about last weekend. I mentioned before about being asked to have my Roadster in the Ford Performance display at the Detroit Autorama. All went as expected and had a really good experience. Ford and their display people were great. Crowds seemed very busy. Had a fun three days talking to lots of people and looking at many of the other 800+ cars at the event. New good buddy from our local club displayed his just finished ERA. Stunning car. He did an amazing job and deservedly won first place in Hand Built Sports. Move out was the usual chaos with a massive line of trailers. But got through it and the Roadster is back home safe and sound. Shared some pics and a brief description with Factory Five and they put together a very generous story about the event. It was on their website and also included in one of their regular email blasts, so I expect most have seen it. But here in case you haven’t: https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...stomer-paul-b/.

The shop that’s painted my last two builds had a booth at the show, so had a nice chat with them. Tried to prime the pump for the upcoming Coupe paint. Hopefully will be ready to talk to them in earnest in a few months. Couple from there made it back to where the Roadster was and did a livestream interview showing their previous work. Hopefully that advertisement is worth something.

The Detroit Autorama is also where they give the Ridler Award, recognized as one of the premier in our hobby. Spent some time checking out the eight finalists one morning before the doors opened. Wasn't surprised this Cadillac was the winner. Simply incredible. Rather then post my pictures, this article gives the back story, details about the build, and a bunch of pictures. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/2019...adillac-wagon/.

Back to reality… Finally have the cowl about where I want it. Front hinges are done and in their final locations. Installed the latches. Pretty straightforward. I switched to 1/4-inch screws vs. the supplied 10-32’s to hold them on. Likely not necessary but decided I wanted a little more beef against the glass on the outside.



With the latches in place, getting bumpers installed and pulling the cowl into place really helps to get things lined up. What I found though was a significant variation in the thickness of the cowl as well as the step around the front of the body. The required bumper thickness varied from under 3/8-inch to 9/16-inch. The kit supplied bumpers are just over 3/8-inch. So, McMaster to the rescue again with these https://www.mcmaster.com/9540k22. Determined the eight locations I wanted bumpers (after looking at a number of build examples) and adjusted the bumper thickness at each location using my stationery disk sander. Placed like this:



Then adjusted the catches and I’m extremely pleased with the fit. Have a little bit of work to touch up the gap and round the edge slightly. But other than that, very little body work will be required.



Two things remain to finish the cowl. Still need to adjust the gap on the right side between the pontoon and the bottom of the cowl. Will be some minor glass work. Still thinking of the best way to do it. Also need to install locating pins that go between the front of the pontoons and the cowl. The kit supplies some receptacles that are OK. But then some small pins (much smaller than the holes in the receptacles) that are threaded on one end and no mention in the manual how they’re supposed to be installed. Going to do something different with the pins. Still thinking about that too.

Yesterday, decided to start tackling the door installation. Last major piece of the body install. First cut holes in the doors per the instructions. Laid out per the manual, cut with an air saw, then cleaned up a bit with a sanding drum, sandpaper, files, the usual. The holes in the inside of the doors are required for access to finish the installation and in my case will be covered with door cards. The holes in the front of the doors are pretty large and I was hoping to make a little smaller. But they need to be the exact size described for the frames to go in. They just fit when put in at an angle as shown in the manual.



I had previously powder coated the frames and did the initial assembly. So they were ready to go. So proceeded to lay out the hinge cutouts on the body. Sort of followed the instructions. But instead of using a long drill to locate the cutouts as described, I used a straight edge on the hinge and a bright light to show the location. Laid out the cut lines per the instructions but cut them a bit undersize so I could adjust them if needed and not get too oversized.



Then trial fit the frame and adjusted as needed.



Then trial fit the door.



I’m still not there yet though. Getting close, but I’m out of adjustment on the bottom of the hinge in the body and it’s still not flush. So will need to lengthen the slots on the hinge piece that’s mounted to the body location. There’s a lot of adjustment built into these hinges, so a little surprised I ran out. The body is exactly where the manual shows it’s supposed to be. Both doors fit the openings almost exactly. Really impressed with that. But getting all that lined up with the hinges takes some fiddling obviously. I’ll get it, then tackle the other side.

Couple hints I’ve learned already. The manual shows grinding a slight bevel on the hinge pins so they go in easier. I did, but not enough. Going to go back and grind a little more. Also trial fit the bracket that bolts to the body and holds the door hinges. Where the pivot bushings are. Make sure everything lines up and will go together easily before starting the door installation. It’s not particularly easy to feed the door frame through the body cutouts and then reach behind and put in those hinge pins. If things aren’t lining up and goes together hard, it’s not fun. Especially if you’re by yourself. Ask me how I know that. A little help for this stage would be good if you can get it.

That’s it. Back to the shop. 30 day forecast is showing a definite warming trend, so hopefully out of the woods with winter. We’ll see. Looking forward to being at the Texas show in a few weeks.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I’m still not there yet though. Getting close, but I’m out of adjustment on the bottom of the hinge in the body and it’s still not flush. So will need to lengthen the slots on the hinge piece that’s mounted to the body location. There’s a lot of adjustment built into these hinges, so a little surprised I ran out. The body is exactly where the manual shows it’s supposed to be. Both doors fit the openings almost exactly. Really impressed with that. But getting all that lined up with the hinges takes some fiddling obviously. I’ll get it, then tackle the other side.

You'll probably find that you end up adjusting the frame and then shimming between it and the the skin to match the door up with the body.

...The manual shows grinding a slight bevel on the hinge pins so they go in easier. I did, but not enough. Going to go back and grind a little more. Also trial fit the bracket that bolts to the body and holds the door hinges. Where the pivot bushings are. Make sure everything lines up and will go together easily before starting the door installation. It’s not particularly easy to feed the door frame through the body cutouts and then reach behind and put in those hinge pins. If things aren’t lining up and goes together hard, it’s not fun. Especially if you’re by yourself. Ask me how I know that. A little help for this stage would be good if you can get it.

Remember what I told ya' that Jesper said about the hinges when we were working on the SEMA Coupe?

Good luck,
Jeff