P100DHG Build Thread - Gen 3 Coupe #138

[P100DHG]

Fuse Panel:
In the interest of saving space, ease of access and keeping things clean I placed my fuse panel under the dash in the top left hand corner. I warn you if you are planning to put an AC vent here this is not a good spot, also check to make sure that it doesn't interfere with the placement of your gauges. Think 10 steps ahead. I am not planning on putting any AC vents on my dash. I have a special surprise for those (details on AC vents to come). Locating the fuse panel in this position means you have to make sure all the wires clear the top of the dash, so I made a L bracket that extends the mounting panel down 2 1/4" from the top of the dash cross member. I also bent up one side so it will attach to the firewall. These pictures illustrate it better than I can explain it.

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Anyway the electrical fuse panel is in and I can tell you placing it here will mean extending wires. I can already tell the clutch safety switch and the brake switch wires are in need of extending and likely the whole front harness. My alternator wire will need to be extended and if you route your wires low like I am doing then you'll be doing the same. The alternator wire is in fact 8ga. The harness FFR provides is great but for what I need I did some rearranging, very straight forward and simple. I am soldering all my connections and heat shrinking them as well to insure a perfect, tight, clean connection.

IMG_5772.JPEG

The picture above probably means nothing to those who don't have this in front of them but might be good to compare if you layout your factory harness to see what positions I moved.

Ignition Control Box & Coil:
No clutter and everything hidden. I don't want to see a single box sticking out so I mounted the ignition control box and the coil behind the firewall. It seems like an inaccessible space but I am making 2 of the transmission tunnel side panels on the passenger and driver side removable. I measured things out and made a metal template. I played around with different spacing and by the time I was done my panel looked like Swiss Cheese so I remade it but well worth the effort. Wires should be short and tidy. I have to be honest putting things this close together is a gamble. I am crossing my fingers I don't have some sort of electrical interference but space is very limited. I'll have to learn by doing I guess...

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As the last few pictures illustrate make sure you make access to remove components if need be. Don't block stuff in. A simple blank rubber grommet can plug your access hole but make a world of difference on serviceability. Just a note I foam backed this panel where it touches the frame tube to dampen vibration and eliminate any noise or rattles.

EFI Control Box:
I placed the EFI control behind the dash. I made studs that it could mount on behind the firewall. Should be a clean look.

I'll put a picture here after I mount it up so check back next week for that.

I sent out a good portion of my panels to the powdercoater. I dropped them at his front door, jumped into my truck and called him from outside. Totally contactless. The new normal unfortunately for now. I plan to pick them up the same way. But once those get back it's off to the races to wire the beast. Last item on the list before ignition and fire is my headers. I am hoping to have those by early summer.

Holes and Placement:
I chose to run my wires through the upper section of the transmission tunnel panel. It will be concealed behind the dash. Take good notes and pictures so you know where things are going, you can always refer back to them. Also as you run wires you might find yourself taking apart a connector like I did for my headlight switch (not in the factory position). Take a dozen pictures from different angles so when you put it back you don't miss a position. Worst case you took too many, you can always delete them.

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[Erik W. Treves]

Looks like you are progressing well... FWIW ... just an observation - the placement of the fuse panel with the dash completely installed may not be that easy to get to... have you put the complete dash in with the side close out panels to see if you still unhampered access?

I assume you are going to carpet the interior? If the coil or better yet the MSD box fails.. maintaining this area post build ... might be a little frustrating?

Looking at your panel... take a look at mine..






the ignition switch with the complete dash is about even with the switch - hard to see the angle but with the key in the ignition the back of my hand is in contact with the bottom of the dash.. then as the dash drops down and tunnel cover comes up .. there is only like 2.5 inches or less to get your hand to reach the top of that panel and it narrows quick after that....

anyway ... my opinion only... not that you were looking for the input

looking forward to hearing you hit the start button!!!

[P100DHG]

I assume you are going to carpet the interior? If the coil or better yet the MSD box fails.. maintaining this area post build ... might be a little frustrating?

You're right, maintaining this build is going to be challenging even frustrating at times. I think it likely extends further then just the MSD box though. I think even getting the battery out will be difficult as the terminals but also the battery posts have to be removed to get it to come out. I tried to think ahead as best I could to make access to each component and not block everything in but likely a 1 or 2 step process will take 10 or more. Nothing is going to be straight forward. As for the fuse panel the side piece will have to be removable or something that allows access to it.

Though I bought a carpet kit I am not going to use it. All my panels will be matte silver powder coated. All my Lizard Skin will be exterior facing. Two of the transmission tunnel sides will be removable giving me access to that MSD box. I drew a diagram of it to illustrate but I'm referring to #13 in the CAD drawing. (I've got time on my hands, can you tell? LOL)

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The walls of the transmission tunnel will be diamond stitched leather so that particular panel will have exposed screws. I'll polish them to match the under hood look which I actually realize I forgot to reveal! So I'll post that later this weekend. It's looking really sharp.

Ultimately you're correct though this is going to be a difficult to maintain. My hope is that it's reliable and drives well. I am thankful you are watching over my build though because I love your car, so any advice is good advice, thank you!

[P100DHG]

I am shocked how much progress I have gotten done in the last month. I also now realize that at the pace I was going, which was a good pace, there is no way I would have started my engine in March (I was thinking about this in December), in fact I probably wouldn’t have started it till next year LOL. I’m in no rush, frankly it’s not about driving it, it’s about building it. It’s very interesting because the car has been a very therapeutic outlet. Last year when I was selling my house, which was so stressful it provided an outlet and now again in this odd time we are in it’s done the same again.

I finished all my engine wiring and plumbing and I installed the engine surround panels that I made so this is the final product. I think it’s looking really sharp. Over 80 hand polished screws plus all the polished rivets. I am excited to put this same effort into making the interior shine now and make this coupe really a one off.

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I still need to wire up a few more things inside the cockpit before I can start it but I still need to get those headers sorted out with a collector before I can hit that major milestone. Erik's comments have really been in my head the last couple days so I am going to figure out how to make my dash fully removable while looking really polished so I can get access to anything easily.

[David Williamson]

Some of the older versions were built with a 2 piece dash so it could be removed for access. Check out some of the builds like "Matt 65"
Looking great, show car finish
David W

[Erik W. Treves]

Sorry to get into your head it was only my opinion based on the few cars that I have built... specifically in the coupe I had a ton of wiring with fully integrated helicopter stick shifter... you can see I did like you and put the schematic right on the panel...

Anyway - I meant to tell you I love your engine bay!
I will put it on record that I will be borrowing this design on my next build.

[John Dol]

I guess people are hiding their coupe builds in separate build threads now. Never knew this existed!!
Really like the engine bay treatment you have done, like Eric I’m sure this is going to get a lot of other people copying your idea!

John

[P100DHG]

Thanks guys! I love the feedback, I welcome it. It's a great opportunity to learn from each other. I have always been of the mindset to be open to ideas. One person can't have all the answers. I can stare at this car for hours and still don't have the best ideas that's for sure. I love sharing the ideas I do come up with and I hope people pick it up and run with it and make it even better. I know there is room for improvement but for my first go at this I am happy with it so far and grateful for the input and help. I am sure anyone who decides to do this look can improve upon what I came up with, I might even do the same as time goes on cause hey, they are fully removable. I say take it and run with it and thank you guys so much for looking out for me.

[P100DHG]

Electrical Update:
Electrical has been my main focus. I have everything ready to go for first start. Just need oil, coolant, gas and headers. My friend told me I can fire it with the headers I have but I am apprehensive about starting the car without an O2 bung and sensor installed... Better do it the right way. The electrical is all concealed you can't see any wires on the car. A massive pain in the rear end to go this approach as I have to lengthen the front harness and shorten the rear. I'll do a write up on it once I tidy up the dash wiring. I need to get the final upper firewall piece installed but I ran out of lizard skin which arrived today so expect the writeup end of next week or beginning of the following.

Floor mats:
I had time today to work on my floor mats that came back from powder coat with the last batch. I had some contact cement that the upholstery guy gave me from when I made my kick panels. I have the leather here that I bought last year so I was ready to go. Just to recap I made the floor mats out of steel (for extra strength), I made a template and I punched the holes out with a 1.5" punch and flare tool.

It's a 2 part process that took me about 5 hours. It's tedious to say the least. Results well worth it. I used the Danchuk 812 Floor Panel Plugs to achieved the domed look and pressed the leather over the dome. Here is how I did it. In part 1, I cut out squares of leather roughly 3.5" x 3.5". I applied contact cement to the leather patch and contact cement to the rubber dome and let them dry. I centered the leather over the dome and just touched the leather to the top of the dome. I then centered a scrap piece of metal with a flared hole over the center of the dome and pressed down stretching the leather over the dome and getting a nice tight clean domed piece of leather. I repeated this 40 times. The rubber dome stays with the leather so that's 40 domes at $5 each.

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The leather adheres to the dome pretty well but the at the bottom it tends to lose adhesion because of the sharp change of angle. I remedied this in a later step. So as I made by domes I set them under the panel so they would keep their form and the leather relaxed into its new shape while I made more domes.

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In part 2, I glued the leather to the bottom of the panel. This is really time intensive and you have to make sure not to get adhesive on the parts you will see. Same technique, apply glue to the leather, then applied to the panel wait to dry and massage the leather to the panel to make it stick. This connection is very strong.

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But I had to address the issue mentioned above with the delimitation on the sharp change of direction. It didn't happen on all the pieces but on some. It occurred where the arrow is indicating.

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I needed a glue that was very forgiving, something what dried flexible and something that wouldn't damage the end result. So I used a very sophisticated product to get really really good adhesion. In the BBQ world people don't share their recipes as they are closely guarded, a tradition I don't subscribe to, so like my BBQ I'll let you in on my secrets. I used gluten calidum. Confused? Oh I bet you are! It's Latin for hot glue . LOL I've gotta tell you it's so strong you can pick the panel up by holding just one of the plugs from the bottom side (it's weak point). It's remarkable how simple it was to solve. For good measure I put a ring of hot glue around each one.

The finished product is awesome

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If you're wondering, Why are his seats next to his bed? No, I don't sleep next to my seats I am keeping them in a guest room so they don't get damaged. LOL

Anyway, the rubber on the bottom side of the domes will touch the floor pans so they won't slide around.

Extra Credit:
I had some scraps and some grommets from an old project lying around so I made a keychain.... like a 5 minute experiment.

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When I close my eyes I can see things coming together, the wood steering wheel, shift knob, matching headlight and AC knobs, the leather seats and exposed silver metal, brown Smiths gauges, polished screws. I have to be patient. There is still so much work to do but as it comes together it's very exciting.

[P100DHG]

[David Williamson]

wow and no pipes too. Exciting step when it comes alive
David W

[P100DHG]

Very Exciting! Thankfully each attempt to start resulted in success, probably because I checked everything obsessively before trying but you can see how surprised I was that it worked the first shot. Though I much prefer the video I posted first above, this is the uncut footage. I have to say for someone who has no experience building a car it was a good feeling to get it right. Gotta give many thanks to the community of people who gave their time to guide me to this point.

Here is the uncut footage.

First Attempt/Start - Unedited

Angle 1:
https://youtu.be/ZuZ2UZFBFpM

Angle 2:
https://youtu.be/D_vx105aNkE

Second Start, First Roll Out - Unedited

Angle 1:
https://youtu.be/MyOxtgNB-RU

Angle 2:
https://youtu.be/aVWffvDIm6M

In my first roll out and each subsequent roll out I only was releasing the clutch applying no gas. I was really surprised about how little play their was in the friction zone. It’s very precise. Also the engine has just a ridiculous amount of torque that it can roll forward like that up hill without giving it any gas and not stalling. Here is a picture of my driveway.

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Oh! I probably owe an explanation about how I started the car without the right headers or gauges. Roush told me there is absolutely no way they’d ship an engine that didn’t have oil pressure, they said the gauge wasn’t necessary. I figured if I cooked my engine I have a warranty and that they wouldn’t say it if they didn’t know it was okay. Their advice has been spot on to date so I trust them. I spoke to Gordon Levy about starting the car and some other people by safety wiring the O2 sensor end of the header. Everyone said it would run rich but that it will run and the video proved that to be the case. What brought me to this point was that I didn’t want to close up areas of the car with the Cockpit panels that would require me to use a lift to get to later if something was wrong. Now that I know things are good I can move forward with putting the cockpit panels in.

Full electrical system update post to come

[UpNorth]

This is sooo cool!
Congrats!

[Grkmf3]

sounds bad ***. hope your keeping it that loud when done

[P100DHG]

sounds bad ***. hope your keeping it that loud when done

It's ear-bleeding loud. I was wearing ear plugs for those videos. It was tolerable with ear plugs. I took one of my earplugs out in the first start video and had to shove it back in immediately. My iPhone speaker isn't loud enough to replicate the sound, nor the feeling of how intense it is. That said I have considered leaving it ear-bleeding loud because really how often am I going to drive the car and it's just added effect, a real attention getter, for better or worse. Hopefully by end of summer I’ll have the exhaust sorted out in someway.

[P100DHG]

I’m still trying to compose a full electrical update. Mainly because I am not satisfied with how my behind dash wiring looks. My efforts to keep everything neat and tidy under the hood had upstream consequences. Meaning, I am struggling to keep everything beautiful behind the dash. Mind you it's all hidden, I have managed to keep it organized but it's not the magnificent specimen I wanted. So I am going to keep arranging and rearranging in the hope of getting a good looking product. Where I did succeeded is under the hood and the rest of the car. The wiring is invisible. Also, everything is working very reliably. A few newbie things to note.

Newbie Mistake #1:
In my first start video and subsequent roll out video, my radiator cap wasn't fully tighten down, it was on the bleed setting. I have since figured out how it works and have the system fully bled of air and everything running at pressure. The cap wasn't tightened down all the way but now it is. Seems stupid but hopefully this will make someone feel better about themselves knowing I had now idea how a radiator cap works... The simple things seem to be killing me. But, by the time I'm done with the build I'll be well seasoned, but for now I'm still learning.

Newbie Mistake #2:
I got a little stumped by that heater valve from Vintage Air that I bought to replace the FFR supplied valve and I gave myself a laugh because the solution was so obvious. My issue was, when my switch was off, the Vintage Air valve was open and when the switch was on, the valve was closed. Doing exactly the opposite of what I wanted. I tried trouble shooting it for an hour and couldn't figure it out. The lesson from this is sometimes it’s best to step away. I left the garage and gave up and the next morning at the breakfast table the solution came to me. You see, the heater valve is normally open allowing coolant to flow through. So when the switch is off the heater is actually on because the valve is open. So the solution was to use the normally closed 87a terminal on the relay to hold the valve shut unless the switch was turned on, then the valve is allowed to open, allowing coolant to flow. So now I have 1 toggle switch to operate my AC & Heater. AC - OFF - Heat. Here is how it’s wired.

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Do you like my Doodle?

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Anyway if this helps someone that's using this valve then great. I doubt most guys would. In fact the real takeaway should be that I am fairly sure you can fit the FFR supplied valve behind the firewall but when I was doing this I missed my opportunity because I didn’t have the foresight to offset my holes in the footbox. I talked about that here. The unintended consequence is that I have one less switch or knob on my dash which is great. Cause if you know me well, which you don't - LOL - you'd know that I like a 1 touch operation for everything. Meaning I don't need 10 switches to turn on my kitchen lights, 1 switch to turn them all on is what I like. That’s why I love my Tesla so much. Foot on the brake pedal, car turns itself on, put it in drive and I don’t have to worry about anything else.

Newbie Advice:
Don't use heat shrink hose clamps on the corrugated hose. I caught what could have been a big issue. After getting my radiator cap locked down I noticed something. As pressure built in the system I could see the corrugated hose slipping out of the rubber coupling. I shut down the engine and changed it out for a nice chrome fitting with 2 band clamps. Could have been a mess. Thankfully disaster averted.

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[P100DHG]

I’ve entered a stand still...

Electrical standstill:
Without gauges and senders I can’t complete electrical, without the speedometer cable I can’t close up the interior panels because I won’t be able to access that area of the transmission tunnel without a lift to install the speedometer cable. (I'm going analog for the look, I'll use those GPS gauges on another project or sell them).

Alignment Standstill:
I am not capable of aligning the car. I won't even pretend I know what I am doing so I am going to have it professionally done. I have to rent a trailer or more likely have it towed, so first drive isn't happening till the car is aligned. Also my wheels and tires were balanced until the weights fell off... annoying! So that has to get redone.

Exhaust Standstill:
I also can’t do first drive because I will piss off the entire neighborhood running with open headers and without a collector and O2 bung it won't run right. I mocked up my side pipes and they are just all types of screwed up. From dents, to bent tips, to poor alignment. The headers on the driver side appear too long and the passenger side looks slightly too short. I don't know whether to send the car out to a high end exhaust shop or look for aftermarket resources like Gas-N...

Mental Standstill:
I tried to start on the dash but I foresee it just kicking my *** so I’m going to hold off till I have my gauges. Probably the most significant standstill because I am feeling a little burnt out so I am thinking about just waiting for parts instead of start something else I can't complete.

So I just have to wait till I get the senders and speedometer cable and then I can close up the interior. There are a few other things to do but it's kind of a pain to start something and stop and start something and stop so I am just taking a break till I can get my parts.

I realize I might sound like I am complaining, but what I'm doing is trying to document where I'm at so people know these build ebb and flow. They pick up steam and slow down and you've just got to roll with the punches.

A Real Update:

If your looking for some good info I updated my engine configuration thread with some additional and significant findings here. Also David Williamson made some
really important contributions, so thank you David!

[OccamsRazor]

I just spent most of the weekend going through your build thread and can only say that it looks amazing!

I did notice a few things that from previous experience, (in another life I was an Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic), that gave me a reason to post.

...

For the upper tube I went with a variation of corrugated tube and cool tube. Starting from the radiator I used Boig's coyote tube. The tube is a straight shot and stops just on the other side of the radiator tunnel allowing me to pick up from there with corrugated tubing. I made a filler piece between the radiator tunnel and engine bay to give a nice clean look. ...

Attachment 125716

That looks very nicely done but how much clearance do you have from the edge of the flange of your filler piece and the Cool Tube? The reason I ask is that the Cool Tube is not flexible and with the rubber joint at the front and the corrugated hose at the rear it is going to vibrate, (maybe not much but it will vibrate), against that filler piece and gouge the plate and/or scrape the tube. A bulkhead fitting, more clearance around the tube, (which would still need to be supported, probably at the rear, in some way), or more clearance and a grommet to space and support the tube would probably be desirable.

...

Attachment 125717

In this picture you have at least 4, (and probably more than 5), points of contact of stainless steel hose against either other stainless steel hoses, some nicely polished article, (I think that is the power steering reservoir?), and even the pressure line of the power steering rack. Stainless steel hoses look awesome and are extremely tough but when they rub or vibrate against each other they act like a hacksaw and cut through each other quite easily. In that same vein a stainless steel hose scraping against anything else is like taking a fine tooth file to the item that it contacts and will, eventually, damage the item by cutting through it. I saw that on the top side rear of the engine you used spacers to separate the hoses and guide them away from other items. I would suggest you do something similar for these hoses if you cannot route them so they do not touch, (which looks doubtful as they seem to all be coming down right behind the 90 degree radiator hose coupling).

Just my observations...

Completely envious of your incredible project.

[P100DHG]

I have to say having never done this before there is going to be plenty of room for improvement. I try to think 10 steps ahead but inevitably I’ll get 9 steps further without issue and that 10th step will be the one where I have to go back and adjust something. I just assume this car will be something I continuously improve. Speaking of room for improvement check out my side pipes that are going to have to be cut into a million pieces to get to look right.

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I think the best way to get these to fit is to send it out to a professional. They might be scrap metal. I am waiting for a date and then I’ll flatbed it there. I also think I want to go glass packs. Still waiting on parts so I can close up the interior. Going to send a batch out to powder coating this week and have something redone. I scratched a panel I intended to stay exposed. Sucks but mistakes happen... and it’s not installed so no big deal.

Thanks for the encouragement and compliments. I hope it helps with others' builds.

[David Williamson]

First they are far better than mine were but still not OK. I would get the hood on and and fitted with the lower inner fenders, this can move the pontoons. If the fit is still way off contact FFR.
David W

[P100DHG]

So I took a break from the car and then everything started to come together. Here's what's going on. (Also the pictures are all out of sequence so just to give a full picture of what the car looks like today reference the first picture of "interior panels".)

Electrical & Gauge Senders:
I got my oil pressure sender, my water temp sender and my custom speedometer cable from Nisonger Instruments this week. Quality of the speedometer cable is fantastic. I am using a 21 tooth gear which should yield the correct reading. I had originally ordered the GPS gauge set from Factory Five but as my build was progressing I decided to shelve them and order custom gauges. I felt like analog was more appropriate for this car even though more modern gauges would have been easier. If I do a roadster in the future (which is likely) I'll use the extra gauges I have. I'm still not statified with my behind dash wiring but what I am realizing is that I don't need a lot of the supplied wires since I am not using the FFR gauges or the sending harness so I am going to thin things out. Here is how it looks now. It's not terrible but it's no masterpiece either, it will improve as I narrow down what I don't need. I kept the wires low because I wasn't sure how deep my gauges will be and I didn't want interference. I am not going with the Factory Five layout. I am going to try to keep it more traditional to the original Daytona. You can see the speedometer cable exits center of the transmission tunnel so you can tell where that's going, center of the dash.

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Interior Panels:
Since I got the speedometer cable in, that allowed me to close up the floor pans and interior panels. They are looking good! I placed the seat in and tested the sliders. You'll notice I had to use a piece of 1.5" x 0.75" rectangle tube to boost the seat up to clear the floor mats I made. The seat headrest still clears the roll bar just fine and gives a better line of sight out the front window centering my eyes better on the windshield. So it was an accidental bonus.

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I lizard skinned the underside of my panels so I have nice metal on the inside. Also in areas where I have leather I can add dynamat for super soundproofing.

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This is the order I put the panels in with the transmission tunnel last. I used tape as labels so I could move the order around until I found the best way to install the panels.

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Also to give perspective the top of the transmission tunnel will be bare metal. It will run up into the dash which will be bare metal. The top of the dash will get a leather dash pad, the sides of the transmission tunnel, foot boxes and below the door will get leather. the floor will remain bare metal as will the back. Door cards I am unsure about. The trunk gets a trunk mat but the walls remain bare metal. By bare metal I mean powder coated just not upholstered. Need's to feel like a race car. So bare metal accents will help with that. OH! and the roll bars fully leather wrapped. Ferrari style. WAIT did he say Ferrari... BLASPHEME! You say that until you've sat in one and then it's like oh yeah!

Exhaust:
I got a call from Morse Muffler the exhaust shop that is doing my headers and side pipes. I am on the books for Wednesday morning so the the flatbed is coming at 7am to pick up my car. I am not sure how many days it will take but I heard his work is very good and he is quick. While the car is out of the garage I am going to send it for alignment and then if everything looks well... I get to go on a go kart ride! I have to say I am apprehensive about this next stage. I live in the hills above the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California and if you are familiar with the area it's amazing driving, views and road biking (cycling) up here but isn't going to be forgiving. That might mean I am go karting in my old neighborhood in Burbank immediately after alignment and have it towed home. Not sure on this one but I am excited to get this car in a drivable state.


Dash:
I kind of started messing around with the dash before I threw my hands up and decided to hold off. My idea is make a panel that hides the AC system and hoses or a plenum or something. It would be nice to wrap it in leather with some foam padding so incase one's knees hit it, it's soft. Also I want to make a full panel to transition between the dash and the transmission tunnel. Lastly I want blend the dash into the roll bar and eliminate the traditional angled dash edges. But the dash is going to have to wait cause I tore it all apart for now.

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Side Note:
Total side note but I was watching the FFR video on the new supercar and I noticed they were using the Sparco QTR-R seats and I am frankly amazed that they fit considering how big they are. So there are improvements with that new chassis clearly.

[jdavis500]

Great job on that wiring! I am shamed into reworking this part of my build!

[P100DHG]

She’s off to get the exhaust completely redone. Full custom. Sad to give up control but happy it’s in the hands of someone who is well respected in the hot rod community. I told Tim the owner to take careful measurements so he can reproduce them if they turn out to be great (so incase you guys want to take advantage of my experiment). I mean 4 glass packs should reduce the sound quite a bit. I assume... lol.

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[Gbeck]

I can't wait to get a look at this exhaust system. You're gonna LOVE go kart!

[P100DHG]

Good update today. So I got a call from Tim Morse (the guy doing my exhaust) last week that my headers and side pipes were all types of wrong and that the glass packs we ordered from Jones are "complete ****" as he put it. He was frustrated to say the least. So we knew that the passenger side was too short and driver’s side was too long. That's about what I could comprehend on my own. Not a big deal because I needed to add collectors on them. Besides the issues with the headers, the side pipes are welded all catawampus. Which we kind of also knew. But additionally the angles of how the side pipes met the headers are wrong on the flange. This I didn't see. He wanted me to see it in person so I went down. But Tim's explanation and approach is what is so great and Factory Five's response.

I am going to explain as best I can in the timeline of how things evolved. Tim's approach was to start on the side pipes and get the glass packs on and laser straight with the body. He would then bring the header to the side pipes. Which is a great way to do it. I wouldn't have approached it from that angle but he's right because the most important thing is to see a great set of side pipes perfectly aligned with the rocker and evenly gapped. So he cut the center section/ quasi muffler out of the side pipes. He took out the Jones glass packs from the box he ordered and that's when he realized they were made like "complete ****." He said they were hollow and as he showed me they rattled like a tin can. He said they would sound awful. He called up Jones and told them we are sending them back. So he started to examine the flange position in relation to the body and header and that’s when he could really see it wasn't just an issue of length, it was an issue of angles too. He mocked up the relationship and the angles for me and they are out of skew. He told me to fix that, things were going to get more time consuming and expensive then I would like and advised me to call Factory Five and he could explain to them the issue.

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So Dave B. from Factory Five & I got on the phone and Dave said just send him the photos, no conference call needed. He said if they are showing what I am describing he'd send me out their new headers with collectors and ball joints built in. So I sent him the photos, a few minutes later I got an email “I just walked a set of headers out to shipping for you. ”IS THAT SERVICE OR WHAT!?! These guys are so awesome they are so supportive and even though their website says no warranty and that might be the case, they get the bigger picture. They want their cars to look and work as well as they claim. Made a life long customer out of me.

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As for the side pipes and the mufflers, we are going full custom mufflers on them, hand made. There won't be any variation in stock from the originals just sound a lot better hopefully. We are going to tis weld everything so the welds will be like art. As to how they will stack up to Paul's from Gas-N, well... when the build is done, maybe Paul will invite me out to Michigan for a burger and we can compare or better yet Paul can come to Los Angeles and we can cruise Huntington Beach! Burgers on me Paul, least I can do for all the advice you've given me.

Care to see what the inside of a stock FFR side pipe muffler looks like?

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So as of right now with the July 4th holiday upon us, we are waiting for parts, but I am optimistic in Tim's quality control and no compromises attitude to get a high end product. I also tracked down a ceramic coater an hour from my house (not an easy find apparently) so when we are done I'll send them out to get coated.

[David Williamson]

looks far too familiar .... mine were the same. I did get them to fit with a spacer on one side and a stack of shims on the other but in the end i replaced the complete system because it was far too loud.
I now have the Boig quiet pipes, still need ear plugs but reasonable.
David W

[P100DHG]

One thing you'll always hear from me is nothing is perfect and everything always has room for improvement. For what you get for the money I think Factory Five delivers a really nice product and they stand behind it and they try to improve it. But I do think there is room for improvement when it comes to the exhaust and that seems to be the consensus. This is their Snap On build, the pipes are angled downward the gaps are not even. Obviously this has nothing to do with Performance and the car looks incredible but it's the last 10% that often set something apart.

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As I mentioned Factory Five very graciously sent me new headers at no charge because the originals were quite a bit off. The new ones allow for better alignment and the quality seems really good. Also stainless headers... I can't complain. Unfortunately they still needed some modification to achieve near perfect alignment and spacing off the body. One noticeable issue was that the headers were too short on both the passenger and the drivers side and had to be lengthened. Tim was telling me that the side pipes were hitting the body. I had a VW bug as I mentioned in my preface and the exhaust got so hot under the fender it melted my paint. So the proximity to the body is important because if it touches it's going to be a nightmare forever. Also it will reverberate through the car. So far there is 2.5 days in fabrication. (I imagine the bill is going to be high) but it's all tacked up and ready for finish welding. They are not perfectly equal, one side has to be longer then the other to get the same gapping of the side pipes on both sides equally along the body.

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You can see that he cut the collector/flange and lengthen it. The pipes had to be straightened too as the were a little twisted also. But the finished product looks really sharp. I want to take all the credit but I can't cause none of this is my work.

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The real question is with the internal changes how will it sound.... Tim is guessing a 20db reduction which would be substantial. Loud enough to piss off the neighbors but not loud enough to give me a headache within the first minute. Just one other thing and we'll have to wait till everything is welded. I got to peak at Tim's welds today and they look like a robot did them they are so good. (the second picture of the header shows it). I've got to get my Tig welder going and just practice and practice because seeing his work is just really inspirational.

In other fantastic news Nisonger Instruments confirmed my gauges will be done in two weeks. I should have my car back in my garage by end of next week. Which would be fantastic. First order of business will be the AC system and then the dash. Dash is going to be tricky because even though I have a bunch of guys willing to let me use their large sheetmetal brakes, and want to help fab it out, that was before the apocalypse and as much as I'd love the help, with the way things are I might be building my own.

Good video on how do make a brake with minimal effort

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y84aURyssMQ

Industrial Metal Supply is going curb side pickup. It's actually really awesome you order over the phone. They text you when to come. You show your confirmation number to a person at a tent outside and they load the truck and you never get out of your truck. Super convenient.

[edwardb]

Pipe alignment looks good. That was a big deal for me too and was happy to get it sorted out with the Gas-N pipes and headers on my build. One question -- not to be a downer -- but you're doing a lot of custom fitting and fabrication there it looks like before your body is fitted? That would concern me a little. I suspect you're going to find it takes some massaging to get the optimal location for the body taking into account the doors, the nose, etc. Hopefully it all works out.

[P100DHG]

You know, I thought about discussing what you just mentioned and decided to omit it for the sake brevity so I am glad you brought this up. This is a fair point and something I considered and Tim and I talked about. One major hurdle was just getting the Factory Five pipes straight. That was a monumental task for him. The second was getting the custom mufflers built out. The third and easiest component is header length. The good news is with the new design on the headers we can adjust them easily. We can rotate them to bring the pipe tips up or down. If header length is an issue we just need to remove the ball and socket joint and shorten or lengthen them as needed. The main headers themselves never have to come off. It’s a really brilliant design FFR is using. Also we have adjustment in the hanger bracket on the pipes. In fact today we were talking about waiting to send anything to polishing and coating until after the body is fitted completely so we aren’t wasting money if we have to make an adjustment. So in short adjusting once more might be necessary but we are close and by we I mean Tim, LOL, so dialing it in will be easier than starting from where “we” were.

But as I’ve mentioned in past posts I often think 10 steps ahead, get to step 10 and realize it’s step 11 that does me in. LOL

My experience to this point, being completely green at this entire process has been eye opening and really educational. My skills will take me to fabricating the custom dash, but truthfully I don’t think they will take me beyond that. From the dash I think we are looking at some other details and then I turn it over to Jeff Miller to do the fitting and trimming. If this were my second or third build I’d dive a little deeper but with so much invested I’ve got to leave some stuff to the pros. Final suspension setup, and corner balancing has to be done by a race shop. Upholstery by a pro also. Glass another pro. The list of checks that have to be written to get this car over the line is going to be long. My hope is that each one of these guys will teach me a little along the way so I can take what I learn to the next build.

[edwardb]

You know, I thought about discussing what you just mentioned and decided to omit it for the sake brevity so I am glad you brought this up. This is a fair point and something I considered and Tim and I talked about. One major hurdle was just getting the Factory Five pipes straight. That was a monumental task for him. The second was getting the custom mufflers built out. The third and easiest component is header length. The good news is with the new design on the headers we can adjust them easily. We can rotate them to bring the pipe tips up or down. If header length is an issue we just need to remove the ball and socket joint and shorten or lengthen them as needed. The main headers themselves never have to come off. It’s a really brilliant design FFR is using. Also we have adjustment in the hanger bracket on the pipes. In fact today we were talking about waiting to send anything to polishing and coating until after the body is fitted completely so we aren’t wasting money if we have to make an adjustment. So in short adjusting once more might be necessary but we are close and by we I mean Tim, LOL, so dialing it in will be easier than starting from where “we” were.

Good point about the ball and socket. Haven't done a build with those, so not something I remembered to consider. I personally would probably wait on final polish and coat. But with a custom fabricator on hand you have a better chance at this than I did. I've mentioned in several posts so maybe you've seen it. Really build up the insulation on the chassis along the bottom of the doors where the pipes are. There's plenty of room between the outside of the chassis and the body to have a bunch of insulation and should help cut down the noise and maybe some of the vibration of the exhaust against the interior panels. There are some pretty interesting products on the market that in hindsight I wished I had used. The only regret I have from my build.

[P100DHG]

See what I did there with the title. Well actually there is a story to it and I'll keep it short. I went to uHaul to get a trailer and the experience was concerning to say the least. So much so I never got out of my truck and I ended up driving away. The safety measures just aren't up to my standards given where Los Angeles County is right now with the pandemic. So rather than going to the alignment shop I called AAA and had the car flatbedded home. I did get to drive the car in Morse Muffler's parking lot and man was it cool to maneuver it around. The clutch has a great feel to it. I like the power steering and the car went where I told it to go and stopped promptly. I even drove it up onto the flatbed without the seats installed so that gives you an idea of the control on the clutch using a standard clutch cable. Low tech and really effective.

So anyway the car is home. The exhaust is done. The side pipes need to go out for polishing to get all the imperfections out, get the welds all cleaned up then they need to get coated but I'll do all that while the car is in paint and upholstery. The whole thing set me back $1200 and frankly, I think I got a deal. I got some fab work that was well beyond my abilities and I got some great install help. I also got side pipes that have mufflers in them. That last part might be the least significant because frankly it had the least amount of impact. It's quieter than straight headers but it's still loud (loud for me a guy who drives an electric car ). It's probably 20db quieter as Tim promised. The tone is incredible it has a deep rumble but volume wise not a significant enough difference for me to rave about it as "the" solution to our problems. To give you an idea of how loud it is I would compare it to a Harley Davidson. It's bearable at idol but still loud. But when you rev it, it's just obscene, it growls. I mean hey lots of people like that. Harley Davidson guys swear by it. They must because they are always jamming on that throttle. There is no sneaking out of the house in the Daytona that’s for sure. There is nothing like the rumble of a V8. The 427 in particular has a ridiculous rumble.

It's going to get the right type of attention thats for sure.

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Side note. I am definitely taking Paul's advice and insulating the cavity between the body and the frame next to the sidepipes heavily

PS if you are wondering what all the blue tape is on the body of the car. That's my son's art project.

[JohnMac]

Just starting on assembling the coupe. Having just finished installing the diff, moved on to the upper and lower control arms. Yes, the flanges are a bit narrower but they were eased apart with a piece of pipe- took about 30 secs. each. Because the kit came from a gentleman who had passed away, not sure we’ve got the latest assy. Manual. Some shots I’ve seen on the forum appear to be cad created. All the instructions in our book are photos and not very clear.

[P100DHG]

Just starting on assembling the coupe. Having just finished installing the diff, moved on to the upper and lower control arms. Yes, the flanges are a bit narrower but they were eased apart with a piece of pipe- took about 30 secs. each. Because the kit came from a gentleman who had passed away, not sure we’ve got the latest assy. Manual. Some shots I’ve seen on the forum appear to be cad created. All the instructions in our book are photos and not very clear.

Just for others to reference I think you’re referring to post #39. You’re right those flanges are tight. Factory Five probably should have mentioned a solution to a common issue. Also I’ll add a separate but equally common issue of the front spindles and the hubs misfitting and solved by lightly sanding the front spindles with emory paper so the hubs go on easily. I think of the manual as a guide and this forum fills in the blanks. Once you get past a certain point in this build (just about when you install the engine) you’ll find the step by step directions more vague. It does pick back up again in the step by step fashion after this though. When it came to wiring the car I am just using the schematic and ditched the step by step directions. The manual I am using is revision 4f. I think Factory Five has some improvement to do on the manual but what they lack in the manual they make up for 10 fold on support. I wouldn’t hesitate to call them. With the change in circumstances surrounding the pandemic, when I run into an issue Or need advice, like I did with the exhaust, I’ll email them and within a couples hours my phone is ringing and it’s Dave from FFR to the rescue. Keep it up keep and stay resourceful.

[P100DHG]

So I am on my way to designing my dash. One would think after 2 years I'd have made a decision, and about 6 months ago I had. My idea was to follow the original Daytona gauge layout I posted in my 1 year anniversary post. I was going to do a traditional Daytona dash, no frills and similar gauge placement to the original. Custom real analog Smith's gauges with brown dials to match the seats would be what set it apart. A few well placed polished screws to hold the dash on would tie in the look to the engine panels. The rivets on the car inspired me to think of airplanes. Traditional automobile style air vents wouldn't do, I needed something more unique. So I acquired 5 Wemac AC vents from a Cessna. Then polish the eyeball and powder coat the housing.

They were incredibly difficult thing to find and it took 6 months to get them at a reasonable price of $20 each. Most suppliers want $120 each. Because of how they can be positioned my idea was to hide 4 of them in areas of the car so they would be easily positionable but out of sight.

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The other element is rather than extending a small panel down to the transmission tunnel my idea was to make a secondary panel to mimic the transmission tunnel and bring the transmission tunnel to the dash. Taking inspiration from the original trapezoidal switch panel of the original Daytona.

But then the tale of the second dash came about when Gbeck had to go and screw it up with his awesome dash and make me second guess myself. Hey, he inspired me and really it looks super awesome. The GT40 was a super cool car and the dash is one of the best ever designed. I am torn on this one because one day I want a proper GT40 or 2006 Ford GT and I may get that look I love so much or I may never be able to rationalize spending that type of money on a car ever so this might be my opportunity to introduce some of the flavor of the GT40 into my car.

So one can only decide by making two models. One of the Daytona dash and one that’s inspired by the GT40.

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As the ideas developed my thoughts about the AC aircraft vents changed and were edited out. Conventional vents were still out but I don’t think those Cessna vents are right for the car either. So I redesigned the AC vents which is one theme that both dash designs share. See them? No? That’s because I decided to make an Airbar (that’s the name I’m giving it, and I am happy to license that name to Apple when they come knocking asking to use it). The opening between the dash pad and dash face is 3/4" and extends the entire length of the dash, distributing air evenly across the whole dash. Also the eyebrow continues all the way across the dash to compliment the continuity of the Airbar.

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After giving both models a lot of consideration I decided to go with the more traditional Daytona style dash. I feel like if I take it too far out of the box with custom gauges, an atypical interior design, the GT40 or Gbeck style dash will just be too much for my build. So I am editing down ideas.

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I got working on the dash pad and Airbar. I had the metal supply cut 3 times the amount of material I need because I am anticipating mistakes but my first attempt or Version 1.0 might be a keeper. Here is what it looks like right now. The Airbar will get narrowed and further concealed when the leather on the dash pad is wrapped over the eyebrow top and onto the underside of the dash pad. Also the dash face will get a bend in it that goes into the the Airbar making it have a nicer edge (hard to explain but as I progress I’ll capture it in pictures.) Also with this design having the dash pad and dash face separate is I can always alter my dash face design mid stream.

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I should be able to test the concept this weekend and see if my idea works. I suspect it will though. Other details to note is that the dash pad wraps around the roll bars eliminating the gaps in the corners. Everything is made from 16ga cold rolled steel. It’s probably overkill but it’s easy to weld, rigid and easy to work with. Another thing to note is that the 3/4” bar intended to hold the Stock dash needs to get cut out of the car and this dash will get secured in place (somehow). Also my fuse panel is now in the way of the Airbar and will need some minor adjusting.

I still need to do a video on the exhaust and an electrical writeup (I am reserving it till the dash is done) stay tuned.

[Straversi]

Well, there you go charging ahead without giving it any thought. Just kidding. When it’s done, no one will know the time and effort that went into agonizing over every detail. Keep it up.
-Steve

[P100DHG]

So after completing version 1.0 I tested it and it delivers even airflow.*

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But even airflow isn’t really what I thought it would be. I was thinking of a strong laminar stream of air. It’s laminar but just not enough CFMs to be strong. Really directed airflow is better in my opinion and so Version 1.5. I tried installing a dividing bar that would direct the air and it worked fairly well. But in the process of welding it in, I put too much heat into the metal and it warped like a potato chip. I worked for 2.5 hours trying to straighten it by heating and cooling areas of the metal and I got it 95% but I realized if I had it powder coated, it would have warped badly in the oven. The metal was just too far gone.

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So on to Version 2.0. Instead of building it from the perimeter in, I worked inside out out toward the edges and used less heat welding. The result is a nice flat product. Rather than trapping expansion I allowed it to travel to areas I would later cutoff. It did take some tweaking but it’s 100%. I also tried to address the issue of getting a more directed airflow and less center support. The result is better. I tried a different angle than version 1.5 (opposite in fact, which gave me more center support) but sacrificed some of Version 1.5’s directed airflow. Now this is where I can obsess about it or leave and let be. Version 2.0 is 95% of what I had hoped it would be.

My obsessing is leading me to build Version 3.0 with bent or curved center support which might give me better or more directed airflow. Or this path is leading me to want to 3D print inserts to direct the airflow exactly where I need it. I can make, tweak and remake them with the click of a mouse rather than metal. Version 2.0 lends itself much better to this new idea because of how the directional center support pieces are placed. Laser cutting something might also be cool but far more expensive. As far as the software I need it idiot proof because CAD is something I don’t know how to do. I also could try for Version 3.0, build an advanced air directing system in but there are pitfalls with this (more welding, more heat, more chances of things warping). Also I used a welding technique on the bottom side I would replicate on the top side by drilling a hole and filling it to tack the center support/ air directors called Plug Welding which would lend itself to invisible welds. But it’s a black hold in there and you can’t see my welds on the topside because I ground them down anyway but it’s just a point of improvement. Homebrew engineering and fabricating isn’t easy.

My sensible side says unless there is another bigger issue (like an installation issue I overlooked) Version 2.0 is here to stay and it looks awesome and is completely functional and if I want to keep tinkering with it later I can get a 3D printer down the road. Or someone along the way will want to get involved and help me out. Also my sensible side says. Try it with the system charged with freon instead of just with the fan cause it could be perfect.

So I’m going to go with my sensible side and save my energy cause if for some reason there is an installation issue I still have enough material to do Version 3.0. Version 2.0 is 100% of the look and 95% of the airflow I imagined. But overall I’m very pleased with the finished result.

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Now to install it I have to take the body off... Hope it fits perfectly, build the dash face, then powder coat then reinstall for a final time. Argh.

*Disclaimer: the uneven hose length will cause one side to be favored over the other but we are just testing here, not final product and by shortening the hose you get even airflow.

[David Ferguson]

It is so difficult to keep a largish flat piece of thin sheetmetal looking good. (especially when you view it from the side). Consider covering the dash top with a felt, or other carpet-type fabric -- it will keep the reflections down in the windshield (if you use a dark color), and can hide any slight imperfections in the sheetmetal.

[P100DHG]

It is so difficult to keep a largish flat piece of thin sheetmetal looking good. (especially when you view it from the side). Consider covering the dash top with a felt, or other carpet-type fabric -- it will keep the reflections down in the windshield (if you use a dark color), and can hide any slight imperfections in the sheetmetal.

So true. Cause I don't do it everyday I forgot how difficult it can be. I learned it well when I built my smoker. If anyone is into BBQ I am a huge fan of gravity fed smokers and when I built mine I had to do a lot of heat management when welding. I built mine for $1300 because buying them can be between $5-7K. That was 2015 so I was a little rusty when I took a stab at Version 1.0 but 2.0 turned out beautifully. Update coming soon on dash.

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[P100DHG]

Work has progressed well. My upper dash is done. Airflow is sufficient and actually once installed and located correctly doesn't need any modification I did however press ahead and I played around with Microsoft's 3D modeler a free tool. I combined an already produced design with my own to get this insert. I did research in to 3D printers and it just doesn't sing to me as something I want to spend my time on right now and since it doesn't require modification I can move on.

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I made a custom dash support with a section cutout for my gauges. Not only does this provide the correct position for the Airbar but also it allows the dash face to be secured from the front. I can do a hidden mount from the rear but I think a couple very well placed polished screws will add to the aesthetic. Verdict on this is still out.

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But what I can say is I have my dash shape worked out. And I have the center panel done.

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I am hesitant to start on the dash face until I have my gauges which I am hoping to have in the next week, but while I was on sheet metal and there was metal shards all over my garage floor floor, I decided to fabricate the brackets for the A pillar wind deflectors. Russ Thompson sent me the templates and the plexiglass. He doesn't have the original brackets anymore but he made his out of stainless. I did mine out of aluminum. They will get body worked and painted.

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Update on the reverse light I ordered from ebay, they arrived and I tested them, they do light up white. The have two wires like a standard tail light. One wire delivers insanely bright light and one delivers just bright light. But they don't look right on the car.

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Plan B was to insert them into United Pacifics FTL3701C-R light which matches the tail lights on the car but have a clear lens but red light. I couldn't find them anywhere, I spoke to United Pacific this morning to see if in fact they ever produced part # FTL3701C-R Red LED/Clear Lens, but they never produced it, in fact they don't even have the part number in their system despite being on the back of the packaging that came with the FFR kit. A mystery. So I am going with the Watsons Streetworks L96WCL White LED backup lights. Same one's used on Paul's build. I think back up lights are just a fundamental safety item on a car like this so I am going for it. I think if it where the roadster I'd do without them but I doubt the visibility on this car is that great so better people know which direction I am going.

So while I wait for my gauges I am going to finish up the front end wiring for the headlights and when the gauges come in I'll fab the dash and finish the interior wiring. Then as promised I'll do my full electrical post.

The list is getting shorter till I am ready for body work, paint and interior, so here is what's left.

• Front End wiring
• Dash fabrication
• Dash wiring
• Aluminum sheet metal in trunk area and couple other stops (just needs to be installed , Jeff wants it installed before I bring the car to him)
• Powdercoat the dash and a few other items

Jeff Miller my painter is going to do all the trimming and fitting. Once that's done (10 days or so), he keeps the body for paint for 12 weeks, that's when I'll have the car aligned, install my seats and get the first go kart going and get any details sorted. Then off to upholstery. Then back to Jeff and I'll be cruising toward completion. I don't have an anticipated completion date but my hope is to be at Huntington Beach next year taking first place.

[P100DHG]

So unfortunately I'm away from the build temporarily as I self-isolate. I mentioned in post #141 that the street I live on is a favorite of cyclists. We likely get more road bikes then we do cars. Well, on Tuesday, I was driving up the hill to my house and a cyclist coming down the hill hit a bump and fell, slid across the lane and into mine (on coming traffic). I was able to come to a complete stop and he stopped sliding about 50 feet from the front of my truck but it was close. Too close for my comfort. The gentleman had horrible road rash and was banged up, but he was okay. He wasn't in any condition to ride home but not so bad he needed an ambulance. He lives about 30 miles from my house and he looked like he was over 70 years old so my gut felt like he was low risk for covid so I drove him home. As a precaution I am self isolating at my parent's home while they are out of town so my wife and son can continue to go see her parents. I should have self isolated in the garage, but I just thought of that as I type this LOL. But Monday I'll get a test, hopefully get cleared and get back to it.

Monday I finished the front end electrical, so my list is now shorter. I only had to extend the drivers side about 8-10" and the passenger side lined up perfectly. I terminated my ends just before the end of the frame tube with Deutsch DT 6-pin Pigtail Kit 14AWG.

I used 6 Pin terminals so I could get:
1. High Beam
2. Low Beam
3. Running/Parking Light
4. Turn Signal
5. Ground/Negative
6. Fog light

Looks clean. Everything just looks perfect to me. Tight to the frame and gets lost in the bigger picture. I'll pick it up on the other side and make a harness for each side of the hood so everything is clean and serviceable.

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I also received my reverse lights from Watson Street Works they look great, I give them my seal of approval. (Rings might need some polishing but that's a snap). So I have to install those, adds an item on the things to do but shouldn't take long.

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So after 7+ months of waiting I got my gauges! and they are wrong... They are suppose to be brown with the exception of a blue clock... His artist screwed up (sounds like he is an independent contractor and works off site) and did it reversed, also botched the color, the blue is wildly inconsistent. The brown is the correct color. The blue color on the Volts and Fuel is the correct color blue but the rest isn't. Doesn't matter because they all have to get redone, the color scheme is reversed. People screw up, we are human, nobody's perfect and what's important is that Nisonger Instruments was no BS about it. Pete didn't make any excuses, he said send them back and he's going to redo them. 2.5 week turn around. Not bad! The quality of the gauges, the bezel I picked, the whole thing is just high quality looking and feeling. I'm very happy with the decision.

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Another item is the wipers which I really don't want. So I am vacillating on that. They might be required to get dmv certification I'm not sure... If some knows in CA that would be helpful. The wipers on my VW bug were a joke. Rain-X seems like a better solution. Are the wipers effective or do they just smear the water around?