Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report

[edwardb]

April 2020: The build is completed! Table of Contents posted on last page. Link


Time to start another build! This will be my fourth FF build, and the first one that doesn't look like a Roadster. I’ve always had my eye on the Type 65 Coupe. When Factory Five announced the Gen 3 Coupe, I started considering it more seriously. I saw it in person for the first time at the 2017 Open House in Wareham. Then again at the 2017 London Cobra Show. I like what they've done with it, and am excited to start this all over again. I really enjoy the build process and this looks like an interesting challenge. This will be a 99% street cruiser. Of course performance is important. But also want it to be streetable and relatively comfortable. With a top and HVAC, maybe some added comfort compared to the Roadster. Still a fair weather car though and will spend Michigan winters in hibernation. I'm planning to take my time with the build. Probably in the 2 year range. The 20th Anniversary Roadster isn't going anywhere though! It's staying right here. So, something to build and something to drive. Doesn’t get better than that.

I had the first week of September circled on my calendar as the right time to order my Coupe. That fit with some other stuff going on including getting my garage and workshop rehab completed. When the time came, thank you Factory Five for announcing the first sale on the Gen 3 Coupe! I placed my order and received a November 18 completion date. I ordered the following:

Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe Complete Kit
Gloss black powder coated chassis
Body cutouts and Nose Scoops
GPS Gauge Set
31 Spline Coyote T-56 Magnum w/IRS driveshaft
5.0L Coyote Install Kit
Vinyl Roadster Seats. Will replace with high backs. TBD
2015+ Mustang based IRS
Double Adjustable Koni shocks
Black Carpet Package
Leather Steering Wheel
Front and rear swaybar
18-inch wheels (free with Fall Sale!!)
Wilwood 12.88-inch brakes front and rear, black calipers
Stewart Delivery

This is the first time I haven't picked up my kit in person. Not sure how well it would fit into my 14-foot SE plus I really don't need the long drive and mess around with sales tax which wasn't the case before. I'm still working on the details of the actual build plan. Lots of TBD's that I'll decide about as I go and start mocking things up, plus watch and learn from other builds.

Like my Anniversary Roadster build, this will be a Coyote build. Just can’t say enough good things about that engine in these cars. The Roadster is just awesome with the Gen 2 Coyote it has. With the 2018 Mustang, now in production, Ford introduced the Gen 3 Coyote. More power (of course!) and some interesting new features. Somehow Gen 3 Coupe and Gen 3 Coyote has a nice ring to it and I enjoy trying new stuff. Ford is saying they will have a crate version of the Gen 3 Coyote “sometime” in 2018. I will stay on top of it and hopefully that will work out.

I've also decided to go with a T56 Magnum to get 6 speeds plus supposedly it shifts nice. The price is only slightly more than the Liberty modified TKO's I've used on my last two builds. A little bit bigger and heavier, but looks like it fits into the Gen 3 Coupe OK.

The IRS, sway bars, shocks and brakes are all the same as on my current 20th Anniversary Roadster. Everything about that car is absolutely perfect, so I'm not changing anything there. I'll be doing heat and A/C for the first time. Still looking at options for the PS and A/C pumps on the Coyote. There are several. I'm not going to go crazy, but I want the interior to be nicely finished and detailed. Carpet, headliner, nice dash, etc. I'm going to decide about seats later as well. We'll see how that all works out.

I'm also pretty certain I'm going to try a hydraulic throw-out bearing setup. I've done a hydraulic clutch on my last two Roadster builds, and love how well it works. Plus with the Wilwood pedal box it's easy at that end. But I'm leaning towards not doing the external slave and instead doing an internal hydraulic TOB. That's what the newer Mustangs use. I've heard nothing but good things about the Tilton 6000 TOB, so that's what I'm considering. Yes, it's risky because of major tear-down in case of issues. We'll see.

So, these are the details of my build plan so far:

2018+ Gen 3 Coyote Crate Engine and Controls Pack
4 into 4 straight tube headers (TBD)
QuickTime bell housing (only option with the T56)
Ford Racing billet steel flywheel
Ford Racing / Centerforce dual friction clutch
Tilton 6000 hydraulic throw-out bearing
Tremec Magnum T-56 6-speed transmission (2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, .80, .63)
3.73 Torsen 2015+ IRS center section. Interested to try the Torsen version, plus the 3.73 ratio matches up with the T56 perfectly
Heater, defroster, and A/C (details TBD)
Heated seats if possible (orders from the boss)
Hydraulic power steering (likely Breeze rack and KRC pump)
Manual brakes (kit supplied Wilwood pedal box)
Full aluminum panel powder coat and Lizard Skin insulation
Mustang style coolant routing and aftermarket expansion tank
High finish interior including dash, gauges/switches, carpet, headliner, etc.
Cruise control (maybe)
Aftermarket wipers and washers (not Lucas)
All LED lighting, footwell lights, trunk light, backup light, center brake light in spoiler
Breeze locking cap under LeMans cap
Rigid stainless fuel and brake lines, Pro-M 3/8-inch fuel pump hangar
Floor mod above trunk (like in the Roadsters) to claim unused space above the tank, with a hinged cover
Color and stripe (if used) TBD. Thinking about blue, but I’ve said that before. Kind of stuck on candy red. We’ll see.

Received word and a picture from Factory Five that my Coupe was finished on the promised date and ready for pickup. Lost a few days due to the Thanksgiving weekend, but Stewart picked it up earlier this week and today was delivery day. Driver arrived just before lunchtime as promised, and everything is in my garage now. The backorder list is about one page long. Shorter than my Anniversary Roadster, but missing some key parts. Front LCA’s, all four IRS control arms, and toe arms. Once I complete the inventory I’ll talk to Factory Five and hopefully get some updates about the backorders. In general, the chassis and body look great. No obvious defects with the body that I can see. As noted in the title, my Coupe has serial number 59.

I’m doing this build thread with the pictures hosted on the forum. I’ve used Photobucket for some years. But because of changes they made regarding third party hosting and costs, going another direction. First pic is in the rack at Factory Five. Balance are from the delivery completed today.















Away we go!

[Vette1972]

Edwardb,

Really looking forward to your build! Your 20th Anniversary was just a super job. I like the options you have listed for the build. I'm sure you will keep us posted. Congrats on delivery!

Len

[mcduke3]

Just as many others are, I am very much looking forward to following this build. I'm sure I am going to learn a lot! Congrats on the delivery and good luck on the build!

[GT Trooper]

Very nice sir - I'll be tuned in as well.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Now the fun starts Paul! Gonna' enjoy following along

Jeff

[JRL16]

Congrats Paul. Looking forward to keeping up with your build. Enjoy!

[GoDadGo]

Paul,

I Can't Wait For You To Show Us All How A Type-65 Should Be Done!

Steve

[Mark Eaton]

Paul,

This is awesome! I'm a little surprised with the choice of T-56 magnum but will watch with interest. Maybe I'll use one on my next build What about ABS?? I am planning to forge ahead with a 2015 ABS system on my MK4 build, maybe you can demonstrate the proper way to do it while I blunder along...

[Paul2STL]

Paul,

Congratulations I will be following as well. If this build thread is anything like the 20th anniversary build thread, this will become a Gen3 coupe build manual. I am building a roadster with a coyote and your build has been my manual. You have done top notch builds in the past and this one I bet will be no different. Look forward to following.

[edwardb]

Thanks for the positive feedback and encouragement. Looking forward to getting started.

I'm a little surprised with the choice of T-56 magnum but will watch with interest. Maybe I'll use one on my next build What about ABS?? I am planning to forge ahead with a 2015 ABS system on my MK4 build, maybe you can demonstrate the proper way to do it while I blunder along...

The T56 decision was based on several factors. I've been happy with my modded TKO's. They shift fine. Maybe no better than a stock TKO. That's been discussed a lot. But by all accounts the T56 shifts better than TKO, so that was one thing. Also the six speeds basically mean a second overdrive compared to the TKO, meaning you have an overdrive that can be used at less than highway cruise speed. But also I want to try the Torsen setup, available only in the 3.73 ratio without custom assembly. The T56 ratios work better with the 3.73, as I mentioned in the first post. All led to the T56 decision. Not going to pursue ABS. You're on your own there. Sorry.

[wareaglescott]

Look forward to following along.
I have never even heard of a hydraulic TOB. Look forward to learning about that and I'm sure many other topics. Thanks for documenting this all again. Spectacular resource for the rest of us!

[edwardb]

Look forward to following along.
I have never even heard of a hydraulic TOB. Look forward to learning about that and I'm sure many other topics. Thanks for documenting this all again. Spectacular resource for the rest of us!

The video from Tilton shows the hydraulic TOB I'm considering. Interestingly, the installation is an FF Roadster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2JAoHhy0A

[Dlirium]

The 50/50 Sale for ALL FF cars was just announced, so I'm putting in my order for my first FF, the Type 65. REALLY looking forward to your thread!

[Al_C]

Best wishes on the new build!

[Shawn818c]

Awesome Paul! I love the 65 coupe as well, would love to check it out sometime

[edwardb]

Awesome Paul! I love the 65 coupe as well, would love to check it out sometime

Give me shout. I'm about 30 minutes away.

[edwardb]

Today I completed a detailed inventory of everything received. 30 boxes and piles of packing paper later, pretty good results. I had two parts missing and one damaged. That’s it. Significantly better than my last Roadster build. I have 24 parts on my backorder list (POL). Most are minor and whenever they come is OK. But I am missing all the IRS control arms plus the front lower control arms. So I’m obviously anxious to get those so I can starting hanging the suspensions. I’ve got follow-up underway with Factory Five and hopefully they will have some good news for me. Once again I was reminded how important the inventory step is. Not only to make sure you have everything you paid for, but just to see and handle the parts, gain familiarity, etc. I open every bag, count very nut and bolt, measure everything, test the electrical parts, etc. There are a number of parts I’ve seen before. But also quite a few different ones with the Coupe. I was digging through the manual more than once figuring things out. As I’ve done in the past, generally left everything in the boxes they came in, and will use the box by box listing to retrieve things when needed. Marking them off as I go. Same with the backorder items. I’ll add them to the boxes they were supposed to be in when they arrive. Staying organized is important with these builds IMO.

I received what appears to be the newer version of the Ron Francis harness. The wiring manual is revision S, dated February 2017. I didn't go through every detail, but appears one of the big changes is the dash harness. Given the struggles some have had with the Speedhut gauges, this will be a nice improvement. Harness is different plus even explained in the manual. I'll probably see some other differences once I get to actual wiring.

Also like how the new Coupe comes with LED lights for the front and rear running lights, turn signals, brake lights. Nice touch. Still the old style halogen headlights though. I'll be changing those to LED as well.

It’s still early, so no assembly progress to report. But some impressions after having the new Coupe in my garage for a few days. The body is clean, in good shape, with little/no repair needed. I was a little nervous because some earlier builds showed some pictures of some not very nice defects. But nothing like that from what I’ve seen so far and I looked it over very closely. Both the windshield and rear glass appear to fit well. There is a little bit of the usual weld splatter on the chassis, but not too bad. The powder coat looks nice. The space frame chassis is just so different from the Roadsters I’ve built. Here’s a picture from underneath while up on my new lift. (Love it.) You can just see the motor mounts in the foreground. Looks nice and wide for engine and transmission options. This chassis doesn’t use a transmission frame like the Roadsters. There’s a bracket that goes across the back for the rear mount. Also visible in this picture is the sheet steel welded in where your feet are in the footboxes.



The front and rear IRS suspensions appear identical to what I had with Roadster #8674. The front swaybar attachment is slightly different. Rear swaybar is the same. One interesting difference is two sets of holes for the control arms. One for normal height, and a lower set for a race/competition setup. Several of the build threads have commented about the width of the Coupe body compared to the standard suspension setup. I measured 72-5/8 inches body width at the top of the rear wheel lips. #8674 with the same 2015+ IRS suspension measures 70-3/8 inches wide at the top of the rear tires. That explains why several have suggested using 1 or 1-1/8 inch hubcentric wheel spacers on the Coupe. I’ll be doing the same. There are a number of nicely fabricated laser cut/welded parts. The very substantial door hinges, door frames, hatch hinges, body mounts are all examples. Nice work Factory Five. The bearclaw door latches will be a nice upgrade from the vintage Roadster latches.

Onward!

[dnew]

Paul,

And you have started! I too will follow, and if I build another FF it will probably be the coupe and as with the roadster this will be my go-to thread. I appreciate your details and it looks like you have a great setup and along with all your experience to make this your best build yet. I think the HRB/TOB is the way to go. They are used on modern muscle and with your attention to detail and setup, I think it will be fine.

[M3ichael]

Looking forward to this build. Congrats Paul.

[Jazzman]

A bit late to the party, but congrats from sunny Arizona! I have already subscribed to this thread. I am sure it will be required reading just as your other builds have been. Thank you for taking us with you on the journey. Merry Christmas!

[Garry Bopp]

Paul,

I will definitely enjoy following your build, Paul. My Gen 3 coupe is on "delayed delivery" due to family issues but I will look forward to using your build as a great resource!

Garry

[edwardb]

It’s been over a week since my last update. The fast builders might have a roller by now (!). Not me. Still thinking, planning, shopping, some minor work and assembly, lots of reading, tinkering, and just staring at the thing.

I have a line by line response from Factory Five regarding my 20+ backorder items and couple of parts issues. Most were supposed to be available in a week or two. Haven’t seen any shipments or notifications yet, but hopefully soon. Not holding me up but will be happy mainly when I can get enough parts to put the suspensions together.

I’ve spent quite a lot of time going through the manual reviewing the major assembly steps, very roughly mocking up or visualizing a number of things, and trying to familiarize myself with the Coupe build. This is just something I do, and actually really enjoy it. While there are a number of similarities to the previous Roadster builds, there are also a number of significant differences. Some because of the very different frame design. Also obviously the body with the tip-up nose is very different. The newly released Gen 3 build manual is a huge help (kudos to guys who did early builds without manuals!) but is still a work in process IMO. A lot of the pictures are stock pictures (Roadster, previous Coupes versions, etc.) or of parts that have since changed. Like the front body hinges. Some details are a little sketchy though, mainly for me anyway there just isn’t much detail on electrical or wiring. Donor Mustang harness wiring has some pages, but little on the RF harness. The RF harness manual only shows the Roadster. I’m not even sure where to mount the RF fuse panel since that area of the DS footbox is very different. But wiring doesn’t bother me and I’ll figure it all out. Also I'll be watching other build threads plus probably see other Gen 3's in person during my build. Everything helps. Note these comments aren’t meant to be critical. Just where the kit is at right now.

My build plan is for power steering. No debate there at all. I have done builds with and without, and there’s no comparison. As I say whenever this comes up on the forum (a lot…) not just for reduced effort mainly at slow speeds, but for the increased caster and how it makes the car drive. I was a little on the bubble about how to do the power steering on this build. Looked at a couple of the electric options, did some research, read lots of posts and reviews, looked at costs, etc. After all was said and done, going to stay traditional with a hydraulic steering rack and engine driven pump. Ordered the Unisteer 3-turn rack from Mark at Breeze. I’ve used this rack twice before and it’s excellent. Not the cheapest or the most expensive, but for me hits the sweet spot of quality and good performance. Not sure which Coyote PS pump setup I’ll use yet. There are several options that also work together with A/C. But won’t make any decisions or spend $ until the engine decision is final. The KRC pump along with the Breeze rack on #8674 is perfect, so will try to duplicate that as much as possible. That theme will repeat itself a lot. For now, I’m waiting for the rack to be delivered. Typically takes a week or two to drop ship from the vendor. I’ll be using Moog ES2150RL tie rod ends and Energy Suspension 9.13101G tie rod dust boots also as before. Already received from Summit. Their shipping speed continues to amaze.

I found the supplied Mevotech upper ball joints don’t fit the upper control arms. Again. This is an often discussed issue. I know there are ways to probably get them to fit. But I’m going to use the same Howe Racing 22320S upper ball joints as #8674. They’re super high quality parts and go in perfectly. Goes along with my ongoing theme of staying with what worked so well on the last build. This was discussed quite a bit in another thread. No need to duplicate here. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...oints-ugh.html. Also using the Energy Suspension 5.13102G boots on the upper ball joints.

I’ve probably spent the most time going through all the boxes and retrieving bare metal parts that I will take for powder coat. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are a number of fabricated parts for this build. Mainly steel and are unfinished. Things like front body hinges, rear body mounts, door hinges, door frames, transmission mount, hatch hinges, sway bar mounts, etc. I went through all of them cleaning them up a bit. Taking off rough edges, the little “nibs” left over from laser cutting, minor weld splatter, etc. I have a couple more on my backorder list. When those are received will take the parts to be coated. These will all be gloss black to match the frame powder coat. I’ll be powder coating all the aluminum panels as well. Still undecided about the color for those. This isn’t much of a picture, but box of goodies so far.



The big issue I’ve been dealing with though is obtaining the IRS differential and knuckles/hubs. For #8674, it was early in the game and the parts weren’t available for purchase separately. I was very fortunate to obtain a zero mile takeout IRS complete assembly. It was big, heavy, and some work to disassemble and rehab the parts. But it was the only choice at the time and I thought I could recoup some of the cost by selling the leftover parts. Wasn’t the case. Made about $60 total and still ended up putting some out for recycle. Just no market for OE parts. At least at that time. For this build, I decided early on I wanted to do a 6-speed T-56 Magnum transmission. With the T-56 ratios available, the 3.73 diff ratio is spot on. In stock form, that meant the Torsen version diff. But that was OK since I was interested in trying that too. Since making these decisions some months ago, I’ve been watching for a deal on a 3.73 Torsen diff. They rarely came up. When they did, weren’t particularly cheap (typically twice the non-Torsen versions) and nothing like the zero miles diff I obtained before. Were off wrecked/salvage cars, and in a couple cases, meant taking the whole IRS pallet again. Plus once those have been on the road, the iron case (the only version for the 3.73 as best I can tell) looks like it has barnacles it’s so rusty. Now it’s decision time with no prospects, plus at this point I want to stay with all new parts. So I decided to bite the bullet and order a brand new diff. (What budget???) Placed the order for the 3.73 IRS Torsen diff and knuckles/hubs from the place that had the best price, which turned out was the same place I bought the Coyote and related for #8674. They contacted me almost immediately and told me that Ford Performance has discontinued the M-4001-88373T diff and they couldn’t get one for me since they drop ship from Ford Performance directly. Good grief! I started shopping around, and found the same story from multiple suppliers. But I did end up finding a new one sitting on the shelf so I grabbed it. Was a little more expensive still (never ends I guess) and is on a truck and should be here later this week. My knuckles and hubs are supposed to be delivered today. I ordered the vent plug and tube from Tasca Parts and they should be here in a few days as well. I’ll get the diff painted and prepped and hung in the chassis soon I hope. Our youngest son and wife will be here for the holidays. Maybe I can get him to help add some muscle to get it in. But this all is a bit of a mystery to me. Looks to me like Ford is still offering the 3.73 Torsen option on the 2018 Mustang as part of their Performance Pack. Maybe it’s something different now. Or maybe they’re no longer offering them through Ford Performance. Doesn’t matter now because it looks like I’m all set. But might be something for other builds to watch out for if you want to go this way.

Still on track hopefully to do the 2018 Gen 3 Coyote crate with this build. I have a couple sources, inside and outside of Ford Performance, who are saying "second quarter 2018." Appears they have it in their lab and in work at this time. I do want the complete drivetrain fairly early in the build so I can mock up everything that goes around it. Just so many differences compared to previous Roadster builds that I'm not comfortable forging ahead too far without the engine and trans sitting there. That timing should work but we'll see. If it gets delayed and I'm ready, I wouldn't have a problem changing to the Gen 2 Coyote. But I'd really like to try the new one if possible. We'll see.

One final thing. These past weeks have been dominated mainly by my wife undergoing left hip replacement surgery. This has been brewing for a long time. Thanks to family genes and the nasty arthritis she inherited. She’s 4 weeks in as of today, and is doing fantastic. Down to just a couple Tylenol a day and mobility already way better than before. She has a ways to go yet, but so thankful for modern medicine and what they can do. I’ve had to do most of the shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc. but no big deal. Don’t know how we could have done it if I wasn’t retired though.

Enough rambling. Probably won’t be another update for a while. Until then, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.

[Vette1972]

Nice detailed update on your process. For those of us still planning, this is such a great resource as to why you build the way you do. It helps with the decision on which parts will offer the best bang for the buck. Thanks and will follow along as you work on the Coupe.

Merry Christmas!
Len

[Boydster]

Just like everyone else, I'm looking forward to seeing this machine come together. Really look forward to seeing what you do with the interior.

Glad your wife is doing better. That hip arthritis can be unreal...

[carlewms]

Paul,

Thanks for the detailed update and best wishes for your wife's continued speedy recovery.

Merry Christmand and Happy New Year,

Carl

[JRL16]

Nice update Paul. It seems like money fixes just about everything on these cars. At least that’s the way my roadster build works. Give my best to your wife. Glad she’s doing well. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

[qwezxc12]

...Placed the order for the 3.73 IRS Torsen diff and knuckles/hubs from the place that had the best price, which turned out was the same place I bought the Coyote and related for #8674. They contacted me almost immediately and told me that Ford Performance has discontinued the M-4001-88373T diff and they couldn’t get one for me since they drop ship from Ford Performance directly. Good grief! I started shopping around, and found the same story from multiple suppliers..

I had the same situation for my Coupe parts. I ordered the 3.73 T-2R Torsen IRS center section and knuckles/hubs from Don Wood Ford Racing Parts in Nov. I got the knuckles, but kept getting strung along on the center section. Got a call Monday that Ford discontinued it, followed my a flurry of calls made to find anyone who actually had one on the shelf. Got one from Summit for a little more $$ and it arrived this morning (free freight!)

FYI to anyone else wanting a new Torsen center section: Summit had three on the shelf Monday when I ordered mine.... two (or less) left now.

I'm also using the close-ratio T-56 Magnum, but I'm swapping the rear gears from 3.73 to 3.31 - in my heavier 1987 mustang, 1st and 2nd had to be used very gently to have any traction with 490rwhp, even with a Griggs rear torque-arm suspension. I'm expecting even with the lower ratio 3.31 ring (12.7% reduction), the difference in the weight of the car (~2500lbs vs. 3300lbs, ~32% reduction) will make for ludicrous acceleration.

[edwardb]

I had the same situation for my Coupe parts. I ordered the 3.73 T-2R Torsen IRS center section and knuckles/hubs from Don Wood Ford Racing Parts in Nov. I got the knuckles, but kept getting strung along on the center section. Got a call Monday that Ford discontinued it, followed my a flurry of calls made to find anyone who actually had one on the shelf. Got one from Summit for a little more $$ and it arrived this morning (free freight!)

FYI to anyone else wanting a new Torsen center section: Summit had three on the shelf Monday when I ordered mine.... two (or less) left now.

I'm also using the close-ratio T-56 Magnum, but I'm swapping the rear gears from 3.73 to 3.31 - in my heavier 1987 mustang, 1st and 2nd had to be used very gently to have any traction with 490rwhp, even with a Griggs rear torque-arm suspension. I'm expecting even with the lower ratio 3.31 ring (12.7% reduction), the difference in the weight of the car (~2500lbs vs. 3300lbs, ~32% reduction) will make for ludicrous acceleration.

Nearly exact same story as mine. Summit has one less now. It's supposed to be here tomorrow.

For my setup, I'm expecting the 3.73 gearing to be OK with the planned Coyote engine. I've driven Roadster #8674 with a TKO and 3.55 gearing with the Coyote for a season, and find the gearing nearly ideal and I'm really happy with it. Yes, with street performance tires, traction can be challenging in the lower gears. But I'm not going to change anything. At least not initially. The planned T-56 and 3.73 gearing I'm planning for this build should be very similar to the Roadster. What's especially nice is the closer ratios in the upper gears. These are calculations at 6,000 for reference.

Calculations for TKO-600 and 3.55 diff in Roadster #8674
Engine RPM = 6000, Tire diameter = 25.5
2.87 1st 44.68
1.89 2nd 67.84
1.28 3rd 100.17
1.00 4th 128.22
.64 5th 200.34
RPM @ 70 mph in 5th 2100

Calculations for T-56 Magnum TUET11010 and 3.73 diff in Coupe #59
Engine RPM = 6000, Tire diameter = 25.5
2.66 1st 45.88
1.78 2nd 68.56
1.30 3rd 93.87
1.00 4th 122.03
.80 5th 152.54
.63 6th 193.7
RPM @ 70 mph in 6th 2150

[Dlirium]

I had the same situation for my Coupe parts. I ordered the 3.73 T-2R Torsen IRS center section and knuckles/hubs from Don Wood Ford Racing Parts in Nov. I got the knuckles, but kept getting strung along on the center section. Got a call Monday that Ford discontinued it, followed my a flurry of calls made to find anyone who actually had one on the shelf. Got one from Summit for a little more $$ and it arrived this morning (free freight!)

FYI to anyone else wanting a new Torsen center section: Summit had three on the shelf Monday when I ordered mine.... two (or less) left now.

I'm also using the close-ratio T-56 Magnum, but I'm swapping the rear gears from 3.73 to 3.31 - in my heavier 1987 mustang, 1st and 2nd had to be used very gently to have any traction with 490rwhp, even with a Griggs rear torque-arm suspension. I'm expecting even with the lower ratio 3.31 ring (12.7% reduction), the difference in the weight of the car (~2500lbs vs. 3300lbs, ~32% reduction) will make for ludicrous acceleration.

So I'm planning on the same T-56 / Coyote combo and ordered this:

16126 - 2015 Mustang IRS Center Section, Spindles, and Hubs +$1,400.00

I had *assumed* that included everything i needed - is there a reason this won't work and folks are using the Torsen? Do i need to jump on this Summit deal right away??

Appreciate any help!!

[edwardb]

So I'm planning on the same T-56 / Coyote combo and ordered this:

16126 - 2015 Mustang IRS Center Section, Spindles, and Hubs +$1,400.00

I had *assumed* that included everything i needed - is there a reason this won't work and folks are using the Torsen? Do i need to jump on this Summit deal right away??

Appreciate any help!!

Yes, that's everything you need. Lots of people get the whole package from Factory Five like you did. With the IRS rear suspension option plus the 2015 Mustang IRS center section, spindles, and hubs, that's technically everything for the IRS. All you need to add is brakes, which you would have to anyway.

The rest of the story is the center section comes in a number of versions. Some are iron case. Some aluminum. There are multiple ratios. 3.15, 3.31, 3.55 and 3.73. All but the 3.73 are a clutch type limited slip. The Torsen uses gears instead of clutch plates. They're roughly twice the price. The 3.73 Torsen setup is considered a higher performance option for the Mustang as part of one of their Performance Packs. How much it helps in these builds is open to some debate, how the car is used, etc. I wouldn't panic if I were you. Nearly every build (including mine to date) use the Ford traction lock clutch setup and it works fine. I would want to know which diff Factory Five is providing to you and then you need to make sure that's OK for your build. My guess is they're providing the 3.55. It's probably the most common. Run the numbers in a calculator (like this one http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php) and confirm you're OK with it.

Like I said, I want to use 3.73 gearing for my build so ended up with the Torsen setup by default. Which is OK since I've wanted to try it. I could have bought a lower priced non-Torsen setup and changed to 3.73 gears. But really didn't want to open and change a brand new diff. I've done it before. Not terrible, but prefer not to.

[GoDadGo]

This is exactly why I love 6-speed transmissions with at least a 3.73 out back.
With that being said; You are going to love having that extra overdrive.

Calculations for T-56 Magnum TUET11010 and 3.73 diff in Coupe #59
Engine RPM = 6000, Tire diameter = 25.5
2.66 1st 45.88
1.78 2nd 68.56
1.30 3rd 93.87
1.00 4th 122.03
.80 5th 152.54
.63 6th 193.7
RPM @ 70 mph in 6th 2150

GoDadGo ZF-Trans Ratios:
ZF S6-40 General Specifications:
Gear ratios - 1st-2.68, 2nd-1.80, 3rd-1.29, 4th-1.0, 5th-0.75, 6th-0.50, Reverse-2.50
Description - 6 Speed 95 mm Fully Synchronized
Weight (w/shifter) 145 lbs

[Wylie Coyote]

GoDadGo ZF-Trans Ratios:
ZF S6-40 General Specifications:
Gear ratios - 1st-2.68, 2nd-1.80, 3rd-1.29, 4th-1.0, 5th-0.75, 6th-0.50, Reverse-2.50
Description - 6 Speed 95 mm Fully Synchronized
Weight (w/shifter) 145 lbs

The proof is in the track times. It'll never go that fast in the trailer. Sonrie mi amigo

[Jonince1960]

EdwardB...AKA Paul............Having read both your other build threads and been consumed by your attention to detail in your 20th Anniversary build #8674 i am delighted to be in at the beginning for your Type 65 build thread ! Armchair, slippers and Notebook at the ready. Hoping you are going OLED all the way on this one.

[edwardb]

EdwardB...AKA Paul............Having read both your other build threads and been consumed by your attention to detail in your 20th Anniversary build #8674 i am delighted to be in at the beginning for your Type 65 build thread ! Armchair, slippers and Notebook at the ready. Hoping you are going OLED all the way on this one.

Thanks. Yes, the plan is for this build to be all LED as well. Factory Five gives a nice head start with the Gen 3 Coupe by providing LED fixtures for the front running and turn signal lights (the two lights in the headlight area) and the four rear running/turn/stop lights.

[GoDadGo]

The proof is in the track times. It'll never go that fast in the trailer. Sonrie mi amigo

The point that you are missing is having real efficiency and drivability with no bogging or lugging between 4th and 5th like most experience with the TKO street units.

[GoDadGo]

Steve's Two Stupid Questions For This Evening:

1. How long is the driveshaft for the T-56 Transmission with IRS setup?
2. Would it be possible to set up the new couple with the T-56 transmission and the solid 3 link axle?

[edwardb]

Steve's Two Stupid Questions For This Evening:

1. How long is the driveshaft for the T-56 Transmission with IRS setup?
2. Would it be possible to set up the new couple with the T-56 transmission and the solid 3 link axle?

1. This is what FF lists on my sales order, specific to my planned Coyote, T56 and 2015+ IRS: 60375 - 31 SPLINE 2015 IRS 9.75" DRIVESHAFT, 3" CHROMOLY TUBE, COYOTE w/6spd MAGNUM, GEN 3 COUPE, BLACK, 1330 U-JOINTS, 2-3-6041X YOKE, 2-2-489. Of course I'm hoping it will fit properly. It will be quite a while before I know for sure.

2. Short answer is I don't know. The Coupe has a 5-inch longer wheelbase than the Roadster. But the engine is set back some compared to the Roadster. There isn't 5-inches more room available. As a comparison, my #8674 Anniversary Roadster has a Coyote, TKO600, and 2015+ IRS. It uses a 10.625" driveshaft. So comparing the two: TKO600 = 31 inches long. T56 = 33.6 inches long. 2.6 inches longer. Based on the different driveshaft lengths, that would suggest there's about 1-3/4 inches of additional length available in the Coupe. Note that's completely unverified. Just backing into the numbers based on data I could find. Is that enough to get a T56 in with a 3-link? I don't know.

[GoDadGo]

Thanks for the reply and I'll be looking and lurking at your latest build thread as it progresses.
If I do anything, meaning building a Type-65, it will likely be in about 5 years when I turn the Big-60.

[Jim1855]

A friend that is building a coupe had to change a few things.

IRS, 351 Windsor @ 427, T56 Magnum (not XL), Quicktime bellhousing. He's moving the engine forward about 2 inches and down about an inch. The T56 hit chassis steel and the transmission mount didn't fit as described in the manual. The shift tower hit trans tunnel steel. The end result is a complete new engine mount system and modified trans mount. Will also need to modify diagonal bracing in front of the oil pan for clearance even when using a rear sump pan but this is due to the engine position change.

We fit my spare block and his driveline components using the Energy engine & trans mounts. This provided a real installation test. The combination actually fits well once moved forward. Custom headers will be fabricated.

There was also a pinion angle issue that was mostly corrected with the changes. As installed the diff center section was slightly rotated down at the input shaft. This was probably due to the diff support structure locations not being correct and 1 of the 4 diff bolts not in-line, a modified off-set bushing was machined.

If the project includes a T56 I'd do whatever engine & trans test fitting you can once the diff assembly is installed. It will be a lot easier to correct early. The Coyote installation may be different enough that there isn't any interference.

On gearing: There is NO correct answer, only a solution that works with your selected engine power curve and then meets your needs, expectations and driving style.
On wheelbase: It's actually 95" according to FFR specs, not 96". Sorry not trying to be a PITA, that just happens naturally.

Jim

[cgundermann]

The video from Tilton shows the hydraulic TOB I'm considering. Interestingly, the installation is an FF Roadster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2JAoHhy0A

Very, very cool and appears nicely well engineered.

Just got caught up in your build Paul, really look forward to seeing you perfect this...

Chris