Ebay Listing

[jdavis500]

I found this today on Ebay today. $120K sure is a strong asking price. I am surprised that the majority of the pics are exterior. Does anyone have the back story?


s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Factor...4AAOSwU4hd0vKO

[wareaglescott]

Seems like that same car was posted on the forum for sale recently. I commented the asking price seemed pretty strong also.

[GoDadGo]

The asking price seemed pretty strong also.

Pretty Strong Is An Understatement On That Price!
I also think that the wheels aren't helping it either.

[edwardb]

I don't have a problem with the asking price. Maybe a little too low IMO... Seriously, a Coupe build can add up in a hurry. Especially with all the goodies like this one. Just happen to know that. I personally am not a fan of the wheels either. But they no doubt were pricey. Recall there was a SEMA built Coupe sold at Barrett Jackson last year in the $80K range (don't remember exactly) and actually was purchased by a classic car dealer here in SE Michigan. They had it in their place for $119K. Sold pretty quickly although of course I don't know how much it went for. That one, pretty sure by the same builder as this one, wasn't as well equipped. I expect we really don't know the market value of these Gen 3 Coupes. But maybe a little higher than we are used to.

[John Dol]

I told him that if he gets his asking price to please refer all other interested parties to me. That was tongue in cheeck but I think everyone has to set their own price. The more sales like these do happen the better it is for all of us that at some point would like to sell our car.

John

[Hoschton Hotrod Haus]

No doubt a very high quality built car, however It can be replicated by several “Professional Builders” on this forum for way less (tens of thousands) than he is asking for it!

Mine is not for sale but if I could get that price it would be and the buyer could choose the paint and interior!

[edwardb]

No doubt a very high quality built car, however It can be replicated by several “Professional Builders” on this forum for way less (tens of thousands) than he is asking for it!

Mine is not for sale but if I could get that price it would be and the buyer could choose the paint and interior!

Might want to reconsider some of this post. (1) Built by a well known builder who has done a bunch of these. Of course I have no idea what he charged, but it's perhaps a bit presumptuous to assume how much he charged has anything to do with the asking price. I'm guessing he may not agree with your "tens of thousands" less though. If you load one of these builds up with all the options, material costs alone add up in a hurry. (2) Not sure why anyone would downplay the selling price of these cars. As owners, it's in our interest for resale to be as positive as possible. The market will decide.

[rdcyclist]

My back of the napkin calculation... By my dreaming on the FFR kit configuration thing, my kit is going to run well over 40k without wheels and tires. The donor '18-up Mustang chassis is probably going to run another 10k (buying it is probably closer to 15k but I should be able to sell about 5k of parts). Wheels and tires probably 4k. I'm totally guessing at paint: 4k. And all the ancillary and nickel/dime stuff: 10k.

That's a total of 78 large and we haven't popped a single rivet or turned a single wrench. I am reasonably certain that nobody is going to do the 200 hours or so of assembly labor for 10 bucks/hour. I have no idea what builders are charging but it's at least an order of magnitude more than that. 120k is not unreasonable for a new Type 65, just more than most of us can spend on one.

[edwardb]

My back of the napkin calculation... By my dreaming on the FFR kit configuration thing, my kit is going to run well over 40k without wheels and tires. The donor '18-up Mustang chassis is probably going to run another 10k (buying it is probably closer to 15k but I should be able to sell about 5k of parts). Wheels and tires probably 4k. I'm totally guessing at paint: 4k. And all the ancillary and nickel/dime stuff: 10k.

That's a total of 78 large and we haven't popped a single rivet or turned a single wrench. I am reasonably certain that nobody is going to do the 200 hours or so of assembly labor for 10 bucks/hour. I have no idea what builders are charging but it's at least an order of magnitude more than that. 120k is not unreasonable for a new Type 65, just more than most of us can spend on one.

4k may not even be enough for paint materials, depending on brand, color, etc. Whole other discussion, but not going to happen for that unless DIY. Off topic, but netting 10K for an '18-up Mustang? What would you use from it? I agree with your conclusion though. It adds up in a hurry. Especially the Coupe.

[rdcyclist]

4k may not even be enough for paint materials, depending on brand, color, etc. Whole other discussion, but not going to happen for that unless DIY. Off topic, but netting 10K for an '18-up Mustang? What would you use from it? I agree with your conclusion though. It adds up in a hurry. Especially the Coupe.

I would paint mine and I think 4k would cover it. How much was the amazing show paint on your car, if I may ask?

I'm thinking a wrecked GT from Copart or Craigs will run about 15k. I only want the drivetrain so in my perfect world, I'd be able to sell the rest of the car parts for 5k. Like my FFR Type 65, I'm still in the dreaming phase.

I've spent enough time with the yellow pad and 80k is not an unreasonable cost for the parts to build a strong running Type 65. I can easily see another 30-40k in labor if you have an expert do the assembly.

[edwardb]

I would paint mine and I think 4k would cover it. How much was the amazing show paint on your car, if I may ask?

As I said, depending on materials and color that might be enough for DIY. Just so happens my go-to candy red colors are among the most expensive. How much? A lot. High end shop and Coupes cost more to paint than the Roadsters I had there before. Lots of threads on Roadster paint costs. Some are realistic about it. Others in denial. Add another 50% for a Coupe and that's a starting point.

[Hoschton Hotrod Haus]

Might want to reconsider some of this post. (1) Built by a well known builder who has done a bunch of these. Of course I have no idea what he charged, but it's perhaps a bit presumptuous to assume how much he charged has anything to do with the asking price. I'm guessing he may not agree with your "tens of thousands" less though. If you load one of these builds up with all the options, material costs alone add up in a hurry. (2) Not sure why anyone would downplay the selling price of these cars. As owners, it's in our interest for resale to be as positive as possible. The market will decide.

Edward,
This is not my “First Rodeo” or my first FFR build... I have been building and racing cars for over 45 years. I know exactly what the low and high costs of various builds can run including restorations. However, you might consider there are lots of people out there that want one of these cars and based on some of the comments made might think they will have to spend way more than is truly required to build or have built a FFR type 65 coupe.
I will have less than $50K in mine and that at includes Complete Kit + $9,000 in options (Including IRS) Wheels, Tires, Ford Racing Crate 5.0 Coyote, New Tremec TKO 600, and yes the paint and body (which I will “farm out”)
I know 2 Pro Builders that would have built the car for $15,000 (one is an long time advertiser on the FFR forum) so that’s $65,000 for a ProBuilt Turn Key High Option Type 65 Coupe.
My profession is buying and selling vehicles and I travel and track most of the auctions. There will always be that “lucky guy” who manages to sell a vehicle at a “ringer”of a price... As we say in our business there is no substitute for being in front of a potential buyer when you have exactly what he wants and money is no object. These are not limited production collector vehicles we are talking about so....
I caution raising the expectations of potential resale value while possibly squelching the aspirations of potential new comers to FFR.

[edwardb]

Edward,
This is not my “First Rodeo” or my first FFR build... I have been building and racing cars for over 45 years. I know exactly what the low and high costs of various builds can run including restorations. However, you might consider there are lots of people out there that want one of these cars and based on some of the comments made might think they will have to spend way more than is truly required to build or have built a FFR type 65 coupe.
I will have less than $50K in mine and that at includes Complete Kit + $9,000 in options (Including IRS) Wheels, Tires, Ford Racing Crate 5.0 Coyote, New Tremec TKO 600, and yes the paint and body (which I will “farm out”)
I know 2 Pro Builders that would have built the car for $15,000 (one is an long time advertiser on the FFR forum) so that’s $65,000 for a ProBuilt Turn Key High Option Type 65 Coupe.
My profession is buying and selling vehicles and I travel and track most of the auctions. There will always be that “lucky guy” who manages to sell a vehicle at a “ringer”of a price... As we say in our business there is no substitute for being in front of a potential buyer when you have exactly what he wants and money is no object. These are not limited production collector vehicles we are talking about so....
I caution raising the expectations of potential resale value while possibly squelching the aspirations of potential new comers to FFR.

Not going to question your credentials and experience, and also not going to get into a back and forth. You made multiple good points, although your math doesn't quite add up on your build. Whatever. But I stick 100% with both statements I made. You basically inferred the high asking price for that Coupe was because the builder charged "thousands" more than maybe should have. Without knowing anything about it. (Which I happen to, but that's beside the point). Not cool. Period. While I agree we shouldn't scare prospective builders or owners with inflated prices, I also have a particular sensitive spot for comments that disparage other people's asking prices. As I said (and obviously you've experienced) the market will decide the value. I'm out.

[Hoschton Hotrod Haus]

although your math doesn't quite add up on your build..

It’s simple math... I just add up the receipts!

fyi ... I built a Fully Optioned FFR MK3 Roadster in 2005 for under $18,000 including outsourced paint. This was before “Complete” kits were offered by FFR and the Base Kit was $10,990 with “Winter Sale” $3000 options @ No Charge. A 1999 Mustang SVT Cobra (4.6 DOHC) with 25,000 miles was used as a donor. Complete power train, abs brakes, cruise control, traction control, and IRS were used from the wrecked donor (a $4500 purchase from Copart). The “remains” were parted out and sold for over $2500net and the scrap body sold for $350net.
Maybe the Hoschton Hotrod Haus just knows how to stretch a dollar when building cars!
Affordable High Quality Cars the average Joe can afford to build ... Dave and Mark Smiths’ original idea for starting their company 25 years ago.

That said I have all the respect in the world for artisans like you who take pride in the painstaking details they build into their cars. But like many restoration projects I have seen over the years, the amount of time and craftsmanship that goes into a lot of projects will rarely reward the builder for all his time and sweat invested. Unless his name happens to be Shelby, Foose, Cottingham, etc.

Now I am out too ... Life is to tough to be taken too seriously ... say cool!

[NAZ]

I've never built the Coupe, but sure like the looks of them. However, the price listed could seem reasonable to me depending on the build. And I'm also sure one could be built for much less but would the two cars be comparable?

High quality performance parts are expensive even at wholesale prices. I've spent six-figures in parts and materials on my build and ~4000-hrs of my labor which I'm sure is worth less than all the beer I consumed building that thing. Costs add up fast on a high quality total performance build -- no compromise race parts are expensive. But I also know there are ways to cut corners and save a bundle and a street car doesn't need all the expensive wiz-bank race parts. However, a high quality top shelf performance build cannot be compared to a standard economy build assembled for street duty. So is the example car a top-level performance build or a standard street build? And what will the market value the car at?

[Jeff Kleiner]

I know the car and story. It's really quite simple...the seller's asking price (note "asking") includes a healthy profit.

Jeff

[lance corsi]

$50K and over 3,000 hrs labor on my 818. Tell me what it’s worth. It’s not your typical 818.

[NAZ]

I know the car and story. It's really quite simple...the seller's asking price (note "asking") includes a healthy profit.

Jeff

Well, there you have it. Good luck to the owner and if he gets close to what he's asking that will be of interest to us all. I've never made a profit on anything I've built and usually loose my a$$. Kudos to those that build these cars and make a living at it.

[Straversi]

There's a company called ICON that takes old Broncos, freshens the body, drops in a Coyote, modern suspension, interior, paint and a few machined billet details. They sell for $120K+.. What's the difference between that and a well built MK-IV or Coupe....Great marketing! If this guy can make a profit for his efforts, more power to him. Spending $70K on a build only to sell for $45K is time-tested hot rod economics but its still a waste.
-Steve

[sread]

there is a huge difference between doing a build wholesale and retail also

[Hoschton Hotrod Haus]

Looks like a new seller and a new … higher asking price!
Wow!

https://www.vanguardmotorsales.com/i...e-factory-five

[iowa]

interesting discussion
the same thing happens in the WWII jeep world
only most of the parts are not original
and are a mixture of post WWII jeeps
so...'salad' jeeps
and these are offered at huge prices
to unsuspecting buyers
who are desperate to own an 'authentic' WWII jeep
having s.o. who knows the vehicle
look at it and appraise is always the best
but...you guy (or gals) probably know this already!!
iowa

[P100DHG]

I love to see a Daytona go for $120,000+ and now its at $140,000. I most definitely will be into mine for $100k. I had a spreadsheet and then I realized it was taking the fun out of it so I stopped. I’d value a build more if it is well built, documented, optioned correctly and has a story. The car was clearly at SEMA it gives it an added value. If it won some thing adds some credibility.

All of these things are on my list of goals to make my car worth more. SEMA is a tall order but maybe FFR would consider it if it turns out like I hope it will.

I don't see much special about the build except gold wheels... it literally is a bone stock complete kit, but not too many well built Daytona’s out there for sale so maybe this is one of them... If this is worth $140,000 then mine will be worth $200,000 when finished for sure . I gladly accept cash or cashiers check. LOL

Very happy to see a strong value in the Daytona, it's the main reason I built one instead of a roadster, that and the dual side pipes, I just love em.

[Traveller]

Let's not confuse asking price with the sale price.

[Wolffbone]

seems high