460.465USMC's MK4 Build #9890 - V.I.N. for the Win and Spring Rumble

[460.465USMC]

Head rest extensions
After reading Fman's suggestion of adding spacers to the headrests to extend them forward, it was a no-brainer for me to do the same. Without the spacers (extensions) there were several inches my head (and passenger's) would travel backward in the unwelcome event of a collision. I went to McMaster and ordered 2.5" aluminum spacers (92510A479) and 3.75" socket head bolts (91251A639).

Here are the head rests with the new 2.5" extensions. The distance between my head and the headrest is now similar to a couple daily drivers I compared.




Side view. I powder coated the spacers black, so they would blend.




Breeze seat brackets
As anyone knows who orders stuff from Breeze the quality and instructions are consistently excellent. I don't have much to add, because the install is pretty straight forward. Here are a few pictures of my install.

The bases and brackets from Mark are supplied in raw steel. So, I scuffed and cleaned them, then coated with black spray paint so they don't rust. The bases are pre-drilled with 1/8" holes (total of 20), and he provides an assortment of 1/8" and 3/16" SS rivets. Since I'm installing mine over carpet with Thermotec underneath, I decided instead to use 5/16" button head SS fasteners, six total.




Here's a view from underneath so you can see there's opportunity to run the screws into some meat, i.e. not just the flimsy 0.040" aluminum floor panel. For two of the six screws I tapped 1/4-20 holes into the 4" chassis tube (about where the blue arrows point). I fastened the four other 5/16" screws (red arrows) with nylon lock nuts. Only two of the 5/16" screws didn't catch good meat, so I used large fender washes to spread the clamping force. Since I had my powder coating stuff out already for the head rest spacers, I powder coated the fender washers so they blend better.




One of the reasons I chose to go with the Breeze seat brackets is they provide about 1.75" of up-tilt at the front. This is designed for leg/thigh support/comfort on the longer drives. The brackets have four positions, for a total of 2.25" of forward/aft adjustment. My seats sit as far back as possible (just shy of touching the rear cockpit wall), and are roughly parallel to the transmission tunnel (not quite touching the tunnel walls).




The bases also come with 3/16" hardboard, which is also supposed to provide better support by not allowing the seat cushion to push down between the seat frame cross bars. At Mark's recommendation, I will treat them with Thompson's water seal before final installation. They are fastened to the cross bar with self-tapping screws.



It's a good feeling to have the seats secured and set. This Roadster is starting to come together. Still plenty left to do, but me thinks there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe have it licensed and on the road for next summer's driving season? Oh, that would be fun!

11/21/22 update: I swapped out the hardboard and installed ABS sheeting instead. Scroll down for discussion/input from those who've installed the hardboard only to find it break once they are licensed and driving. Added picture of ABS installed below.

[Papa]

Chris,

Don't be surprised if that hardboard breaks not long after you start using the car. I left it out when I installed those same mounts. I've seen others use acrylic or plywood in place of the hardboard.

Dave

[RJD]

ABS works great for a seat support replacement - has some spring to it. No regrets after 2100 miles.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...Bottom-Support

[460.465USMC]

Chris,

Don't be surprised if that hardboard breaks not long after you start using the car. I left it out when I installed those same mounts. I've seen others use acrylic or plywood in place of the hardboard.

Dave

Thanks for the heads-up, Dave. I'm a little surprised Mark hasn't gone with ABS or other like material in his seat base kit by now given the number of builders experiencing this issue.

ABS works great for a seat support replacement - has some spring to it. No regrets after 2100 miles.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...Bottom-Support

Thanks for the tip, RJD. Another benefit of the ABS is no worries about it getting a wet. Just ordered from Amazon. Appreciate you dropping in with the suggestion.

[Fman]

Chris, If you end up keeping that area accessible you get some extra storage space. I keep my registration/insurance docs/spare fuses under the seat. In this little car every inch of storage is a premium! FWIW I have not noticed any issues with just putting the seat directly on the steel base, seems fine to me. You could probably just use some velcro to keep the hardboard secure and easily remove it when needed.

[RJD]

Chris, If you end up keeping that area accessible you get some extra storage space. I keep my registration/insurance docs/spare fuses under the seat. In this little car every inch of storage is a premium! FWIW I have not noticed any issues with just putting the seat directly on the steel base, seems fine to me. You could probably just use some velcro to keep the hardboard secure and easily remove it when needed.

You can cut a hole in the ABS to keep the area below the seats accessible - it's pretty resilient.

[460.465USMC]

Thanks to the tipoff from Papa and RJD I ordered some ABS sheets (12" x 16") from Amazon and cut to size to match the hardboard Breeze supplies in his seat base kit. I drilled a 3/4" hole to allow the wire to drop down through. The thickness of the ABS sheets is 3/16", same as the hardboard.

ABS installed in place of the hardboard




I'm whittling down the list of things I want to do before installing the body for the first time. (Interpret that last sentence as procrastination: I feel like I will be getting in over my head tackling the body alignment/fitment). So, I knocked out the e-brake boot, riv nuts on the F-panel, and seat heaters.

E-brake boot Install
I saw Papa's approach to attaching the e-brake boot with snaps and I liked it: Papa's e-brake boot with snaps. I ordered a kit of black snaps, but couldn't figure out how to get the base (female end with screw) side of the snap to sit flush against the trans tunnel wall. So, I went to Plan B and installed it with the trim screws F5 supplies with the kit. I used six of the eight supplied screws. It turned out fine, and is still removable if I need to get at the handle assembly. By the way, I am pleasantly surprised with the quality of the boot. Either I'm fooled by vinyl made to look (and feel) like leather, or it's really leather. Good quality, F5.




Riv nuts in F-panel
Next up was installing riv nuts in the F-panels, so the splash guards are removable (Edwardb). Back when I started my build a couple years ago, I was excited to learn about this cool invention and try my hand. To make a long story short I installed two, and was 0 for 2. You mean a 10-32 riv nut won't install with a 10-24 thread? Yep, that's what I did. I've been staring at these failed riv nuts for almost two years. It was time to fix them. Nothing fancy or new here, but glad to drill out the failed installs and replace with new. I put in six per F-panel.




CobraHeat Warm Seats
From there I moved on to the CobraHeat seat warmers. Before removing the cover, I traced around the edge of the vinyl so I knew what it should look like when reattaching it. Another forum idea. It also provides a convenient boundary marker to lay down the DAP Weldwood contact cement.

The vinyl covering was difficult to separate from the seat cushion foam. Unfortunately, some chunks of foam came off as I removed the cover. Not all of it was this bad. The factory did a thorough job with the glue. Wow. I used my fingernail to remove as much of the foam from the cover as I could.




The kit comes with foil tape. I guess it's supposed to be used to secure the warming pad to the seat foam? I tried to install it on the vertical seatback, but the tape doesn't stick well to the foam. Not to mention it's quite difficult to apply the sticky tape underneath by feel. There's just enough room to reach in with your hand. I didn't even bother trying to use it on the other seat, and removed it from the first. I think (hope) the pad will stay put as the seat cover conforms fairly tightly to the foam, plus the foam tends to grab. Curious if anyone else has had this issue, and whether they used the foil tape?

The foil tape comes in a square sheet with precut lines to pull off in strips.




For the wire routing, on the vertical pad I brought it out at the bottom where it will snake through the Breeze seat bracket and connect. For the seat cushion, I cut a slit 3/4" deep and drilled a matching hole in the ABS support. I previously ran the wires from the relays (mounted behind the dash) inside the cockpit, parallel to the trans tunnel (under the carpet). Here's the bottom of the PS seat cushion, showing the slit and where the wire comes out.




Here's the top side of the seat warming pad. I glued the ends (areas inside the blue rectangles) to keep the pad secure, especially as it wraps around the front. I didn't need to trim the seat cushion pad nor the vertical pad in the seat back.

[460.465USMC]

The seat back was easy compared to the seat cushion. No need to remove the cover. Just remove the two plastic channels that clip on the metal bars--seen at the bottom of the picture. With the clips off you can reach in with your hand. The warming pad will reach to the top of the seat. No need to trim it. Just straighten it out flat with your hand, and snake the cord out the bottom in such a way so it won't be pinched when the seat is installed.




I used DAP Weldwood contact cement to reattach the seat cover to the seat cushion. I made two mistakes here: (1) I should have used DAP Weldwood Landau, which is specifically formulated for vinyl, and (2) I bought it twice. I picked up the smallest size (3 oz; $10). Way too small. Went back and picked up a quart size ($20). I didn't realize I bought the wrong stuff until I was done. D'oh! Oh well, the contact cement got the job done! Apply it, let it set for a few minutes, then carefully push the vinyl cover back in place. Instant grab. It's not going anywhere. Note of caution: the contact cement puts off strong odor. Recommend using it outdoors, or with garage/shop doors open.




I shudder to think if I have to replace the warming pad some day. I tested them back when I was doing electrical, so I know they put out the heat. Hopefully, they'll function for a good, long time. If my memory serves, I think I bought the water resistant version.

Well, now it's back to more study for body fitment/alignment.

[mmklaxer]

I went the same route and scrapped those tape strips. I assumed zero chance that'll hold up over time, unless the intent is just to tack in place during installation, and friction keeps it there. glued it to the seats using weldwood landau.

[egchewy79]

I thought the foil tape was to seam together the heater pads itself if you wanted to do that, not to adhere it to the foam. Or maybe to seal off a cut edge if you decided to trim it.
I didn't bother gluing my heaters to the foam. it lays flat and will likely not slide anywhere. 1000mi later and it's still where I placed it.
I need to look into the ABS board. I'll worry about it when the hardboard breaks/deteriorates.

[460.465USMC]

Hi Chewy. Your guess is probably better than mine. The instructions are pretty generic as these are universal fit seat pads. Good to know yours have 1,000 miles and haven't shifted around. I hope my vertical pads will stay put as well. Thanks for checking in.

[460.465USMC]

I went the same route and scrapped those tape strips. I assumed zero chance that'll hold up over time, unless the intent is just to tack in place during installation, and friction keeps it there. glued it to the seats using weldwood landau.

Hello. Is the Weldwood landau different than what I show above?

Edit: just answered my own question. Boy, I hope I didn't make a big mistake using the contact cement. Just plain ignorance in not knowing there is a DAP Weldwood product designed for vinyl (Landau). Oops! The contact cement is certainly holding well. I hope it doesn't cause an issue with the seat cover material.

[toadster]

great job Chris!

has anyone used the 3M Super77 or 90 spray adhesive on the seat upholstery? or is it recommended to use the Weldwood stuff?

also - are you doing the ABS upgrade instead of the fiber boards for the Breeze Seat mounts?

[Papa]

great job Chris!

has anyone used the 3M Super77 or 90 spray adhesive on the seat upholstery? or is it recommended to use the Weldwood stuff?

also - are you doing the ABS upgrade instead of the fiber boards for the Breeze Seat mounts?

I used 3M 77 spray on the seats when I installed the heaters and I use the same to install my carpet. So far, so good on both.

Dave

[460.465USMC]

great job Chris!

has anyone used the 3M Super77 or 90 spray adhesive on the seat upholstery? or is it recommended to use the Weldwood stuff?

also - are you doing the ABS upgrade instead of the fiber boards for the Breeze Seat mounts?

Thanks, Todd. Scroll up a few and you'll see I posted a picture of the ABS in place of the Breeze hardboard. Cheap enough to swap, and was really easy for me to do now. Of course, easy enough to do later too.

I don't have any experience with the 3M spray adhesives. I've read a number of builders (like Papa above) who've used them successfully. However, I like the ease of control with the glue. Just my preference.

[460.465USMC]

I haven't had much garage time over the last couple of weeks what with Thanksgiving, and continuing to research and hatch my plan for body fitting. That makes it sound as if my plan will be something special, or maybe elaborate. Nope. Just takes me a while (long while) to figure out new stuff. In the meantime, my Metco driveshaft safety loop arrived: MDL2500.

Here are the parts that come with the kit (gloss black powder coat). The bolts are grade 8.




When I installed the drivetrain, I used three of the Forte 1/4" transmission spacers, which put my pinion/operating angles in spec. However, it raised the driveshaft up 3/4". As I mocked up the safety loop, I was not comfortable with the amount of clearance between the top of the loop and the driveshaft. So, in order to raise the loop and add clearance, I made a spacer out of 2 inch flat bar steel I had on hand. (I'm one of those guys who hangs on to metal odds and ends. They come in handy). Drilled out slightly larger holes (7/16") to give me a little wiggle room. Prepped the metal and then powder coated it in my oven.

Here's the 0.2" thick spacer ready to install:




The ripple effect of adding the spacer meant the supplied 3/8" bolts (4 each) for the safety loop were no longer long enough. The 7/16" bolts at the forward part of the longitudinal bracket were also too short. They were designed just long enough for the transmission mount. Not the transmission mount plus the safety loop bracket. Off to the hardware store for longer grade 8 bolts.

Here you can see the spacer I made between the longitudinal bracket and the loop.




With those items taken care of, I was able to finalize the install. Added some blue Loctite to the fasteners that don't have locknuts. Here's the view from below.




Sideview




The longitudinal bracket extends about 7/16" below the 4" chassis cross tube.




In a recent post, I mentioned my concern about clearance between the top of the hoop and the bottom of my cupholders. The 0.2" spacer ate away some of the clearance, but it still clears by a whisker. Here you can also see driveshaft clearance.



The hoop can be inserted from below. But be prepared with something like Gorilla tape on the corners of the hoop to help ease it past the driveshaft to minimize scraping.

[Ted G]

Hi Chris,

Things are looking great! I also had this same problem and will have to seek a solution like you did; my hoop is actually rubbing on the driveshaft after install. I also used the three spacers from Forte. I will attempt this too, but I have an issue with my e-brake cables coming in contact (especially if I move the hoop up by 1/4"). May have to adjust the brake cables.

[John Ibele]

Nice progress Chris! FWIW, I also head clearance issues which required use of a spacer. And, would have gone for more clearance but ran into the same problem Ted mentioned. I’ll live with 1/8” clearance and a bit of rubbing of the ebrake cables on the top of the loop. Not ideal but I can live with it. Seems like you have exactly the space you needed for everything including the cup holders - you can just say you planned it that way

[RR20AC]

I put a jack on the metco hoop to bend it upward and ran my brake cable through the hoop. Simple and cheap.

[egchewy79]

I also ended up running my cables through my loop. I figured that if my driveshaft exploded, I'd have bigger issues to deal with.

[JohnK]

Nice work Chris! One thought - the lower piece of the Metco safety loop isn't perfectly rigid because it cantilevers off the a-frame. If you bump it with your hand you can see that it will move a little bit. Perhaps it's just the angle in the photo, but the upper part of the safety loop looks like it's within a few millimeters of your cup holder. I think that when you're driving you may end up with an annoying buzz where the safety loop is vibrating enough to be touching the bottom of the cup holder. If you've already set pinion angle, from your photos it looks like you'd have plenty of clearance to the drive shaft even without the spacer you fabricated. With an IRS nothing is going to move. Not anything you necessarily need to do anything about right away, as you could always pull the spacer out later if you do have an issue with vibration.

[toadster]

awesome job as usual Chris! you also sanity checked my a-frame install... the FFR instructions show to put it on upside down, but that's just not going to fit right! maybe my "5" plate was installed upside down

[460.465USMC]

Hi Chris,

Things are looking great! I also had this same problem and will have to seek a solution like you did; my hoop is actually rubbing on the driveshaft after install. I also used the three spacers from Forte. I will attempt this too, but I have an issue with my e-brake cables coming in contact (especially if I move the hoop up by 1/4"). May have to adjust the brake cables.

Hi Ted. On the PS I had less than a finger's width between the upper portion of the loop and the driveshaft. With the spacer I have at least a finger's width of clearance. I have a similar situation with my e-brake cable proximity to the loop. If you come up with a solution, please post. Thanks for putting eyes on this.

Nice progress Chris! FWIW, I also head clearance issues which required use of a spacer. And, would have gone for more clearance but ran into the same problem Ted mentioned. I’ll live with 1/8” clearance and a bit of rubbing of the ebrake cables on the top of the loop. Not ideal but I can live with it. Seems like you have exactly the space you needed for everything including the cup holders - you can just say you planned it that way

Well, I could say that, but....wouldn't be able to pass the red face test. I'm going to monitor my e-brake cable clearance once I'm on the road and put down a few miles. If it becomes an issue, I'll look at options.

I put a jack on the metco hoop to bend it upward and ran my brake cable through the hoop. Simple and cheap.

Hi Jim. Long time no talk. Hope all is well. Your plane project is really taking off (sorry, couldn't help myself ). How does it compare to building your Roadster? Looks like quite a challenging endeavor.

Thanks for checking in. That's a clever idea. If I have an issue, I will keep this in mind. I like simple. I like cheap. Even better when they come together in the same solution.

I also ended up running my cables through my loop. I figured that if my driveshaft exploded, I'd have bigger issues to deal with.

Right. Seems like that's an option a number of builders have used. Thanks for your valuable input. Always good to hear solutions from builders who have been there, done that.

Nice work Chris! One thought - the lower piece of the Metco safety loop isn't perfectly rigid because it cantilevers off the a-frame. If you bump it with your hand you can see that it will move a little bit. Perhaps it's just the angle in the photo, but the upper part of the safety loop looks like it's within a few millimeters of your cup holder. I think that when you're driving you may end up with an annoying buzz where the safety loop is vibrating enough to be touching the bottom of the cup holder. If you've already set pinion angle, from your photos it looks like you'd have plenty of clearance to the drive shaft even without the spacer you fabricated. With an IRS nothing is going to move. Not anything you necessarily need to do anything about right away, as you could always pull the spacer out later if you do have an issue with vibration.

Thanks, John. Yeah, I was surprised about the amount of "springyness" in the longitudinal bracket. It's 1/4" steel afterall. Wow.

You're right on the money regarding the clearance between the cupholder and safety loop. I added a couple layers of Gorilla tape in case there's contact. It clears by a whisker. If there is consistent contact between the loop and the cupholder, I'll have to take a step back and consider options. The closest dimension between the hoop and the driveshaft isn't visible in the pictures, as it's on the PS side. I could probably pull the spacer and survive, but just didn't feel comfortable with the narrow clearance between the spinning driveshaft and hoop. Like you said, it can be removed easily enough if it's an issue. Appreciate you weighing in.

awesome job as usual Chris! you also sanity checked my a-frame install... the FFR instructions show to put it on upside down, but that's just not going to fit right! maybe my "5" plate was installed upside down

Thanks, Todd. I've found useful aspects in pictures a number of times I don't think the builder was necessarily trying to show. Glad it provided some value.

[460.465USMC]

I was gut-punched by a nasty crud (flu), which had me out of commission for a week. So, no garage time, but over the last few days was able to get back at it a bit. Thankful to have a heat source in the garage: makes a big difference on days like today with the temp. reaching lower teens and headed toward low single digits.

I ventured off the trail again and decided to add the NRG steering wheel quick release (SRK400 in black). Although this is not an extensive mod, it does require precision in drilling holes right where you want them. Precision is clearly in the "Needs Improvement" section of my shop report card. Despite the fact I'm still quite challenged to place a center punch exactly where it needs to go, it turned out okay. Phew.

This mod has been well-documented. No need for me to try to reinvent the wheel, so I'll mainly stick to pictures of my install. If you're interested, here are some threads on how to do it:

• Quick Release / Russ Thompson turn signal I believe G-Pete and frd2 were the first to alert the forum to this excellent mod. Thanks, guys!
• Edwardb installs in Type 65 Coupe
• dbo_texas I relied most heavily on dbo's write-up: excellent pictures and step-by-step description. Thanks, dbo!

Here are the two halves that come with the adapter kit. The socket head screws are M5-0.8 and will be used in the mod. The centers with the wires attached will be removed via the two outer Philips head screws.




Yes, this is another mod that requires cutting away at new parts. I used a Dremel with a metal cutoff wheel. It made pretty quick work of cutting through the aluminum. There's a similar cut on the other half of the adapter (not shown)--also used a Dremel. Hand-filed surfaces to get them smooth and flat.




Not much going on in this picture other than to indicate the clocking of the holes. Aligning the hole pattern for drilling/tapping the six new M5-0.8 holes directly above the Russ Thompson "T" will maximize clearance from the existing 1/4-20 holes as shown in later pictures below.




Similarly, six M5 sized holes will be drilled in the steering wheel (yes, drilling holes in a brand-new steering wheel...shudder). One of the black plastic centering pieces is in the center of the wheel--more on that later.




This is one of those times a drill press is indispensable (IMHO). (Thanks, Dad, for giving this to me when you could no longer use it). I held the two halves of the Russ Thompson hub together while drilling/tapping the M5-0.8 holes. By the way, I really like the ratcheting driver holding the tap bit. Since I didn't have one when I started this project, I added it to one of my earliest McMaster-Carr orders. German made and decent quality for around $30 IIRC. Not an issue with this mod, but the ratcheting aspect allows for tapping in tight spots where handle clearance is an issue.




As I mentioned, the spacing for these M5-0.8 flathead screws really turns out nice if you follow the guidance. The original holes won't be used.




Here's a view of the rear face of the steering wheel. I added the yellow dots to keep me on track given the extra holes in the NRG adapter. The dimple I mentioned above is visible here above the twelve o'clock screw. It's the marker to ensure everything is clocked in the same orientation.

[460.465USMC]

To help keep the NRG halves aligned to mark and drill the holes, dbo_texas sent me these plastic jigs. They worked great, and really made it easy to keep the parts concentric with each other. Many thanks, dbo! If anyone is interested in using these jigs, I'm happy to pass them along.




I think this thin version of the NRG blends in pretty well. It can be seen, but I don't think it becomes a major focal point to the cockpit. Had to break out my first F5 badge and put it on.




Here's a 35 second video of the NRG in action: NRG installed in Factory Five Racing Roadster

Everything came out well. Well, there is one thing: the center cover that pops into the steering wheel is pretty loose. Almost like the amount of difference you'd expect between a metric and SAE sizing. It won't quite fall out, but spins easily, and you can actually hear it rattle a bit when I remove/replace the steering wheel in the video above. Though I haven't specifically searched yet, I don't recall reading about this sloppiness in how the center cap fits. Any ideas?

[edwardb]

...the center cover that pops into the steering wheel is pretty loose. Almost like the amount of difference you'd expect between a metric and SAE sizing. It won't quite fall out, but spins easily, and you can actually hear it rattle a bit when I remove/replace the steering wheel in the video above. Though I haven't specifically searched yet, I don't recall reading about this sloppiness in how the center cap fits. Any ideas?

Since the center cover no longer needs to be easily removable, I glued mine in with a bead of clear RTV around the inside. Still could get off if necessary.

[egchewy79]

nice work. I don't recall my center cap being loose at all. do you have that little O ring on there?

[460.465USMC]

nice work. I don't recall my center cap being loose at all. do you have that little O ring on there?

Hi Chewy. Yes, the black O-ring is in place, but thanks for checking.

The amount of play caught me off guard. The manual says you may need to lube the O-ring because the fit can be tight. I was expecting to have to apply some pressure to get it to pop-in. Not so in my case.

[Railroad]

Thicker O-ring?
Nice work!

[460.465USMC]

I hope everyone had a good Christmas. Wishing you all the best in 2023.

When I'm in the middle of a build task, things get pretty messy. Tools and parts get strewn about. My mess perimeter seems to grow and grow. One idea I've had in mind to help contain the mess plus give me some elbow room is a freestanding work bench/work surface. One that I can roll around the garage as needed. Christmas vacation provided a great opportunity to pick up the materials and build one.

I wanted a work surface big enough so I can spread out and not trip over stuff. I found a good example (3'x8') on YouTube. I was looking for simple, sturdy, pretty easy to build, and easy on the budget. The example I found satisfies all four. As a bonus, it has a functional shelf. The cost was about $200 for all the wood, $15 for the 5/16" lag screws, and $100 for the 1/8" ABS I'm using as the finished worksurface.

Here's the frame: 4"x4" posts for extra strength and rigidity.




Here, I'm gluing the 1/8" ABS to the 1 1/8" OSB. I went with the OSB and ABS combo because I wanted a perfectly flat surface, able to take some weight, and easily wipe clean. Yes, I used everything but the kitchen sink as weights while the glue cured.




Here's the finished workbench. I ripped down a piece of hemlock to rim the edge of the work surface for a more finished look. The shelf below is built using 1"x6", and will be handy to store frequenty used tools. Thanks to some gift cards for Christmas, I ordered and installed a 6" Wilton vise. My 4.5" red Craftsman (visible in the background) just doesn't have the girth for certain tasks (e.g. driving out the wheel studs).





It was a fun project, and will immediately become my go-to. I'll have to be careful with heat on the ABS, as well as drilling. Otherwise, I think it will pretty much take anything else I throw at it. I put the textured side of the ABS up to provide a small degree of non-skid.

Since I want to be able to move it around the garage easily, I have step-down coasters on order. I also ordered some leg levelers to compensate for the sloping garage floor.

Happy New Year and happy building!

[Papa]

Nice work, Chris. I have a smaller rolling work bench that I use for many of the same reasons you mentioned. It is very handy for keeping the tools off the floor and close by when working on a project.

[460.465USMC]

Now that I've ran out of ways to procrastinate further, it's time to get serious about body fitment. For me, this is yet another intimidating task. So, I've been researching the forum and trying to digest the steps one at a time. And, trying to get them in the right sequence, as there are important dependencies. As the info. piled higher and higher, it became clear I needed to document them into steps to help with brain overload.

The following is a collection of steps for MK4 body fitment I found on the forum. I plan to drive in gelcoat for at least one season, so it's up to yours truly to get the body fitment done, or at least close. As you would expect, so much great help from Mr. Kleiner, and other seasoned builders--plenty of copy-and-pasting from their advice below. For a guy who knows nothing about body work (this knuckle-dragger), I stand half a chance of getting through it thanks to their contributions.

See anything missing, out of sequence, etc.? Your feedback is very much welcomed. Here goes:

1. Before fitting the body (with bulb seal in place), sand a radius along bottom edges that will pass over the bulb seal. This will minimize damage to bulb seal.

A. Use towels, heavy mil plastic, or other material to protect bulb seal when putting body on. Once the body is on it can be lifted slightly with ease to remove.

B. Example picture from Edwardb

2. Trim the underside return of the cowl roll ~¼”- ⅜” for clearance to the dash, and do the same for the rolled lip against the rear cockpit wall.

A. If not trimmed, the front lip could restrict forward body movement, preventing it from getting to the desired position

3. Drop the body over the chassis and send it forward so that the body's door flange is just ahead of the chassis' striker tab, about ¼”.

A. Example picture from Kleiner

4. Check the rearmost lip of the trunk floor aluminum to see if it comes in hard contact with the body below the trunk opening.

A. I've been finding that a bit of trimming (1/4"-3/8") on that piece as well and the corresponding vertical edges of the trunk side panels is helpful with body positioning and lower valance panel adjustment.

5. Run all-thread through the body and into the rear couplers [mine are 7/16”-14 couplers].

A. Do not tighten yet. They are only there at this point to hold the tail up.

B. I’m using Kleiner’s coupler mod at the rear with threaded rod and nuts on the inside.

* Link to Kleiner's rear quick jack mod

6. Center the front of the body

A. Measure from the front top shock mount (or chassis point) to the edge of the fender flare and get these as close L and R as possible.

* Don’t measure from the ¾” tubing

7. Nose spacing above ¾” tubes

A. Use ½” - ⅝” rubber spacers on top of the ¾” tube just next to the hood hinge bracket.

* Example picture from Kleiner

B. This takes the weight off the QJ tubes and holds the nose at a good height

8. Locate the nose

A. Install the front QJ bolts and spacers and button them down to locate the nose.

* Neither Kleiner or Miller use the horseshoe (AKA C bracket) between the chassis and turn signal lights.

9. Install windshield

A. Tap ½”-13 holes in the windshield brackets to ease windshield install. If tapped, no nuts are required. **Note: this recommendation is not universally accepted on the forum, but is the way I'm going to do it.**

* Description and photo from Edwardb--scroll down

B. Alternate method from CraigS: If you don't want to buy a ½”-13 thread tap, use 8 standard nuts. This way, while you do your trial fitting, you can thread 4 of them on by hand and use a wrench for just the last turn or two. Once you have the w/s installed for the last time thread the other 4 nuts on as jam nuts.

10. Doors

A. Don’t yet lock down the body on the underside along the rocker panels.

i. This is where lots of give & take comes into play because you are trying to strike a balance at 4 different places

* The upper front of the door where it meets the cowl

* The upper rear where it meets the rear cockpit opening

* The lower front

* The lower rear

ii. To further complicate things we're dealing with both horizontal as well as vertical interfaces along the upper part of the doors. Adjusting for one invariably affects at least one other.

iii. I've had the best luck adjusting for the door tops first

* While dealing with the top area of the doors, do not completely ignore the lower door edge's intersection with the main body but keep in mind that the lower body can be moved in/out independently with little to no effect to the upper cockpit openings.

* I've found that the passenger door has been easier than the driver's side; once the adjustments were made to get the tops in order it just took a bit of outward movement to the lower body to have it meet the bottom edge of the door.

* On the other hand, with the drivers side once the tops were fitting, the bodies had to go in at the lower front corner of the doors and move out a great deal at the rear. I've found that these cars and bodies are quite consistent and one of those constants is that you'll need to push the rocker panel in as far as possible in front of the driver's door and pull it out at the rear.

* I can assure you that you aren't going to get all 4 corners to meet perfectly but your goal is to get them as close as possible so that they operate without interference, and to minimize the bodywork necessary to match contours between the main body and moveable panels. Once you've accomplished that you lock down the body along the rocker panels.

B. Kleiner: You can greatly improve the driver’s door fit by placing a thick washer on the lower forward stud between the door and hinge. When you crank down on the 4 hinge bolts that will force a nice spring into the door which will help with the contours.

11. Hood

A. For the hood, I leave the hinges just loose enough to allow them to move somewhat freely. Then close and position it in the hole and get underneath and tighten the nuts.

B. Hood scoop:

* This F5 video looks interesting

12. Trunk lid

A. The Mk4 trunk hinges allow movement in all axis, so it's pretty straightforward to get it adjusted on the top. By using the coupler method for the bumper/QJ attachments along with nuts rather than spacers on the backside of the body, you can move the valance in or out as necessary to match the bottom edge of the lid by adjusting the nuts on the inside in conjunction with spacer tubes outside.

13. Tip from CraigS for final locking down of the body

A. To add strength, slot the holes in the underside of the rocker panels (slot oriented left to right) where FFR has two screws per side. Then ditch the screws and use bolts w/ nice wide fender washers. As you get into aligning the doors you will find that pulling the rocker area in/out (especially driver side) will be a huge help. And once that adjustment is done and the bolts tightened, these 4 bolts really help lock the body into position.

* Additional advice from Kleiner: slot the rockers so that you can move the lower body in or out as needed in conjunction with the door hinge adjustment. Generally you push both sides in all the way below the front edge of the doors. Passenger side will push in at the rear, maybe bring it out just a bit to meet the bottom rear of the door. Driver’s side you’ll have to pull the rear lower body out around 3/4”.

B. Kleiner does not recommend to install screws around the perimeter of the engine compartment opening. The body is reportedly very secure without them.

14. Install front splash panels

A. Install after the body is locked down with the doors fitted

Here is a sequence thread I found from Kleiner that was especially helpful, and a key source for the above: Kleiner sequence

Time for me to pick up some plastic sheeting to tack to my ceiling for a DIY dust containment room, and finally get started on body fitment!

[Jeff Kleiner]

You’re on a good track Chris, except for #10. Splash panels don’t go in until much later—-after the body is locked down with the doors fitted. I don’t think you have it in there (maybe it’s in one of the threads you linked) but as Craig said slot the rockers so that you can move the lower body in or out as needed in conjunction with the door hinge adjustment. Generally you push both sides in all the way below the front edge of the doors. Passenger side will push in at the rear, maybe bring it out just a bit to meet the bottom rear of the door. Driver’s side you’ll have to pull the rear lower body out around 3/4”. Also, you can greatly improve the driver’s door fit by placing a thick washer on the lower forward stud between the door and hinge. When you crank down on the 4 hinge bolts that will force a nice spring into the door which will help with the contours.

Shoot me a message or give me a call if you hit a rough patch!

Jefg

[460.465USMC]

Thanks for reading through my approach, Jeff. I edited it, moving the splash panels to the end, and adding your comments about slotting the rockers, and the thick washer for the DS door hinge. Again, very much appreciate your input. Wish we lived closer together, so I could get on your list for body and paint work.

[Jim Frahm]

Chris,

Let me know if you need any help with the body install? I'm sure I can learn a thing or two by giving you a hand… Plus, I’m getting hungry for a Five Guys burger!

Jim

[Nigel Allen]

Jim, I wished you lived local to me when I was putting my roadster together!

[460.465USMC]

Chris,

Let me know if you need any help with the body install? I'm sure I can learn a thing or two by giving you a hand… Plus, I’m getting hungry for a Five Guys burger!

Jim

Jim,

Come on over and drive that Vette of yours. Looking forward to seeing it in person. You know the deal: you come over and lend your expertise and I buy the Five Guys.

[Jim Frahm]

Jim, I wished you lived local to me when I was putting my roadster together!

I would’ve been happy to help but one of us is living in the wrong country..

[Jim Frahm]

Jim,

Come on over and drive that Vette of yours. Looking forward to seeing it in person. You know the deal: you come over and lend your expertise and I buy the Five Guys.

The Vette is hibernating for the winter but I will come over and lend a hand or just check out the progress.

[JB in NOVA]

Chris, love the workbench! Now that I'm "done" (not really, though) with the Roadster project, I'm finding the need to build more stuff. Just now finishing up a deluxe garbage can enclosure, complete with hand-made clapboard siding, dual gas-strut-assisted lids, magnetic door latches, and motion-sensing interior lights. My wife just shakes her head every time I head out the to the garage. My response: "Hey, it's either this, or I'm gonna build another car."