Is a Coyote install really all that complicated?

[Scotty's65]

I have been researching and there are a few excellent build blogs for MKIV Coyote builds but they do seem complicated.
I'm looking to build a MKIV street look car using a coyote and MT82 6 speed. Is this a tough deal? Can I use a standalone wiring set up for the car and Fords engine harness? Thanks in advance

Scott

[wareaglescott]

I wouldn't say it is overly complicated but it is not easy either. This was my first project of this magnitude and I had very minimal previous automotive experience. I had a lot of questions but every one went answered on this forum and I was able to accomplish it without to much hassle.
The common transmission choice is a TKO-600. I am not sure about the size and fit of the MT82. I will say that with my gearing and the light weight of the finished car I believe a 6 speed to be unneeded. Also that would complicate things with the driveshaft as I believe you need a custom solution. I think Duke used one so check his build thread out.
As far as wiring the kit comes with the Ron Francis harness and the coyote comes with its own harness. For me as a beginner the wiring was the most intimidating part. Again I got a lot of forum help and it worked out just fine. The integration of the two harnesses together for the common purposes works out nicely as well. EdwardB did an amazing job in his build thread of explaining all that so if you are considering a coyote build I would recommend his thread as a must read.

[michael everson]

Factory five has the Coyote down to a science. Any install issues are usually caused by straying from the normal install or installing the engine in a kit that was not specifically designed for it. I just did one in a Gen 3 Daytona and it was simple. Did another one last week in a Roadster and the same result.
Mike

[FFinisher]

No, not that complicated, With the Ford Control pack and the harness that comes with the kits it is pretty straight forward. everyone knows I am a huge fan of the Coyote.


the only drawback is they are HUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEE. But they fit.


I have no idea about the trans you mention. I would stick with the package that works. Coyote and tko 500/600.

With this, you will have a rock solid Rocket.

[edwardb]

I'm a huge convert to the Coyote setup. The way it starts, runs, drives, etc. is just flawless and makes these car especially fun to own and drive. The power and easy revs is outstanding. I say that after doing two traditional SBF carb'd builds. I had those two dialed in well and they ran great. But the Coyote takes it to another level. Complicated? Maybe a little but it's a one time thing. Once it's in and running you're all set. Fitment used to be a challenge, but that's been worked out so no worries there. Tight? Yes, but it does fit. Many find wiring to be the most difficult part of these builds, and with the Coyote there is definitely more wiring. But take it a step at a time and it's all very logical. Basically the car itself is it's own standalone wiring harness, e.g. lights, gauges, accessories, etc. And the Coyote has it's own standalone wiring harness. There are just a few wires connecting the two, e.g. start, run, fuel pump, power. If you want to keep it as simple as possible, stay on script and use the Ron Francis chassis harness and the Ford Performance controls pack. Lots of successful builds out there and the final result is amazing. One other point. The Coyote will run great on the stock tune. But it runs even better with a custom tune. Nothing you need to decide about up front. You can address is later like I did.

My #8674 Roadster build used the Gen 2 2015 Coyote crate setup and the Ford Performance controls pack. Build thread is linked in my sig line below. There have been some minor changes made to subsequent years, but the general layout is still the same. Factory Five has updated instructions on their website that show the installation. Everyone has their own personal take on the installation, but this should give you some information and pictures.

Regarding the MT82, two points. If you do use one, most recommend a later version. The early versions had some issues that apparently Ford has addressed. Lots about this on the Mustang forums. But the big issue with the MT82 is the shifter location. It's extended far to the back and takes some custom work to get the shifter into the proper location for these builds. Guys have fabbed their own setup. Also I believe Formacars in Columbus, OH is working on a shifter solution for the MT82. Maybe it's already done. I don't know anything about it other than seeing it discussed in their forum posts. As already mentioned though, the TKO600 is by far the most common choice and is a great setup for these cars. Fits and works great, and is what I'd recommend. If you're determined to have 6 speeds, a T56 is another option and used by some builders.

Good luck

[Jdav]

I second (or third or fourth) what everyone else is saying. This is my first build, so I don't have a base of comparison, but i found the install to be pretty straight forward. Granted, that was following EdwardB's wiring spreadsheet - so if you were the first person to tackle this it would be much more challenging, but as long as the control pack doesn't change its as simple as following instructions to connect wire A to wire B.

[Scotty's65]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the advice. The MKII I built back in 03 (4332K) was an easy build, I used a fox 5.0 and 5 spd. My current hot rod is a 2014 GT "Track Pack" Mustang and I too have fallen for the Coyote.

The research continues!!

[Scotty's65]

How good will a MKIV look next to this?

[Jazzman]

How good will a MKIV look next to this?

It will look fantastic!!

There is not much I can add to the Coyote discussion other than to agree with all the others. This was my first build, and I felt that overall the engine install was easier than I expected. It was so very satisfying to turn the key and have the engine fire right up the very first time! No setting of carburetors or distributors or anything. Just add electrical and fuel, it starts. Since you already have a mustang GT and already like the performance of the Coyote, this decision sounds like a no-brainer. Any tools you have to buy will work on both vehicles. You have a reference tool right in your driveway. Unless you are trying to create an exact visual replica of the original, go with the coyote. Can you imagine how great all those horses will be in a vehicle half the weight of your current GT?

[Jeff Kleiner]

No, not that complicated, With the Ford Control pack and the harness that comes with the kits it is pretty straight forward. everyone knows I am a huge fan of the Coyote.


the only drawback is they are HUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEE. But they fit.


I have no idea about the trans you mention. I would stick with the package that works. Coyote and tko 500/600.

With this, you will have a rock solid Rocket.

Right there is all the endorsement that you need! Ron has done more Coyote builds and repowers than anyone

Jeff

[frd2]

And if cost enters the discussion then get a salvage F150 version w 50,xxx + miles for a fraction of the cost. Only a few insignificant difference vs mustang or crate motor for the early version.

Greg

[MisterAdam]

I built mine in '14 with the only electrical knowledge of "up is on and down is off". between the ffr, ron francis, ford instructions and of course the forum it started up on first crank. the electrical was indeed the most intimidating but go slow and take it a page at a time. you won't regret it.

[Doug @ Forma]

We have a largely stock 2015+ Coyote & MT82 in our Mark IV and we are putting a twin turbo 2015+ Coyote & MT82 in our Gen 3 Type 65. We love them too and believe it's a great way to go, if you're not a purist looking for a period correct build.

The challenges in using the MT82 are the shifter, transmission mount and driveshaft. As mentioned above, we have developed a combination shifter & transmission mount for the MT82 and have it in both cars. It feels great and it puts the shifter in a great spot. We still have final testing to do, but plan on having it available in the first quarter of next year.

The drive shaft was a bit more challenging. You can have a driveshaft shop make one or assemble it from off the shelf components. We used off the shelf components in our Mark IV. We are looking at developing our own solution here as well.

[Packer fan]

I have a question for the guys with the coyote tko600 combo?

I have heard that the tko doesn't like to shift above 6000rpms and the coyote loves it above 6000.
How well is that working?

Jim

[grluisi150]

The other issues related to the 6 speed is the distance between the end of the trans and the rear end. The 6 speed dictates an IRS to eliminate binding problems. I have the older style IRS and theirs no space issue for the driveshaft. The 2015 mustang IRS has different dimensions so you need to look into that.

[edwardb]

I have a question for the guys with the coyote tko600 combo?

I have heard that the tko doesn't like to shift above 6000rpms and the coyote loves it above 6000.
How well is that working?

Jim

My response would be: How do you plan to use the car? My 99% street driving it isn't an issue. I don't hit 6,000 rpm all that much. Might spike up there (or more) occasionally, but things start happening real fast. Don't get me wrong. The Coyote loves it and it sounds great. But trying to keep it legal here. At 6,000 RPM, TKO600 and 3.55 diff (my setup): 1st = 43.8 mph, 2nd = 66.51, 3rd = 98.21, 4th = 125.7, 5th = 196.41. The 4th and 5th especially are just calculated. Quite certain it wouldn't go 196, but never going to remotely try. Recalc all the above at the redline of 7,200, and it's already going 80 in second. So, like I said, if 6,000 is an issue, I wouldn't know it for street driving. For track and strip, obviously it could be a different story. But I'm not the right guy for that.

One aside comment. I did several passes in #8674 at the London Cobra Show this year for the charity rides. It's as hard as I've pushed the car. Found the bottom of the accelerator on each pass for the first time and only time so far. I was too busy to watch the tach, but shifted at pretty high RPM. I was just into 3rd when passing the 1/8 mile cones where you're supposed to lift, which I did. GPS showed I peaked in the high 80's MPH. Never had an issue shifting.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Was a somewhat early install. Was not really that hard just follow the instructions & use common sense. If something seems wrong it most likely is, just back up & relook the install instructions.

Kits are much easier now with preformed sheet metal included that we had to fab up. Think lots of the "its hard" stories are from very early installs.

Would also recommend you go with a packaged Coyote & TKO from one of the vendors here. Prices are good & they are basically turn key with all the parts you don't think about included.

[Dave Howard]

Hi Scott,

Coyote installed in my MkIV project 2012. LIke Mike Everson and others have said, the Coyote install is pretty straight forward. FFR have excellent install instructions. And the BEST source of information comes from the supplier. FFR have done all the hard work. THEY have done all the engineering. Many of the elaborate Coyote build threads are a pictorial recount of the FFR instructions. In 2012, no one had a build thread detailjng the install. Follow the instructions. Its straight forward.
The engine is a wide as a big block FE. Fills the engine bay nicely. It's the best bang for your engine $. And they are bullet proof. 6 bolt mains will run high revs all day, so for your street application you'll NEVER have an issue.
I'm another 5 speed TKO user. 5 gears is lots. 1st through 4th are close and 5th is a nice tall OD.

What else can be said. I believe those folks who say the Coyote is a difficult install...never installed one. Tends to be a bit of hearsay forum talk at times.
Remember. If it's good enough to be in Dave Smiths car, it's good enough for mine too.

[edwardb]

...FFR have excellent install instructions. And the BEST source of information comes from the supplier. FFR have done all the hard work. THEY have done all the engineering. Many of the elaborate Coyote build threads are a pictorial recount of the FFR instructions...

I'm tempted to respond point by point and give multiple examples. But I'm not going to. Only say that those of us sharing details that go deeper into details are valuable to some builders. We're not just adding pictures to Factory Five's instructions.

[Dave Howard]

Scott,

I hope your question has been answered. Don't be frightened off from taking on this project. Easy peazy if you follow the instructions. Good luck buddy.

[Scotty's65]

As I said I love the Coyote so it is going in no question, I asked about the MT82 because I can easily source a used engine/trans combo out of a wreck though I agree 6th is probably not an issue especially with how they wind. My 14 pulls and pulls right up to 7750 with the Cobra intake and tune. I had not taken into account the length of the trans however, as much as I liked the 3 link on my MK11 this will definitely be an IRS car.
I was studying Jazzman's flip top build - beautiful craftsmanship Jazz - I am happy to hear that I can just use the Ford Perf standalone harness.
Doug I installed the Blowfish Racing bracket on my Mustang to correct the shifting issues with the semi-remote stock shifter body mount, would that work in the MKIV?
Dave one of my close friends -Rob Harrison - is from Espo, born and raised!

Scott

[2bking]

I have a question for the guys with the coyote tko600 combo?

I have heard that the tko doesn't like to shift above 6000rpms and the coyote loves it above 6000.
How well is that working?

Jim

I could side with the "hard to shift above 6000" when the TKO 600 transmission was new. I regeared it for the .64 fifth and while I was at it, I replaced the brass synchros with the carbon fiber ones. My high RPM shift experience is in the 1st to 2nd shifting because there are very few legal places to hit 7100 on the streets in second gear. I couldn't tell much difference after the rebuild but the synchros seated and I never think about it being hard to shift above the 6000 level. I'm not sure whether it's the carbon fiber synchros or just being broken-in. I hit the rev limiter sometimes in 1st because I'm too busy watching the road to keep an eye on the tach so I shift mainly by exhaust sound. The 7100 rpms comes up fast in 1st so for me its not easy to tell the difference between 6500 and 7000 by ear.

[Packer fan]

My response would be: How do you plan to use the car? My 99% street driving it isn't an issue. I don't hit 6,000 rpm all that much. Might spike up there (or more) occasionally, but things start happening real fast. Don't get me wrong. The Coyote loves it and it sounds great. But trying to keep it legal here. At 6,000 RPM, TKO600 and 3.55 diff (my setup): 1st = 43.8 mph, 2nd = 66.51, 3rd = 98.21, 4th = 125.7, 5th = 196.41. The 4th and 5th especially are just calculated. Quite certain it wouldn't go 196, but never going to remotely try. Recalc all the above at the redline of 7,200, and it's already going 80 in second. So, like I said, if 6,000 is an issue, I wouldn't know it for street driving. For track and strip, obviously it could be a different story. But I'm not the right guy for that.

One aside comment. I did several passes in #8674 at the London Cobra Show this year for the charity rides. It's as hard as I've pushed the car. Found the bottom of the accelerator on each pass for the first time and only time so far. I was too busy to watch the tach, but shifted at pretty high RPM. I was just into 3rd when passing the 1/8 mile cones where you're supposed to lift, which I did. GPS showed I peaked in the high 80's MPH. Never had an issue shifting.

Thanks for the response.
I was just wondering how it was working for people because it seems to be a popular combination.
I know that many in the mustang community rev them to 7500rpm or more and that the power really comes on above 5k. It kind of sux when you try to shift and it sticks. I have had that happin in a previous car ( non tko600) and you look like an idiot. You are right, normally you would not be in that situation.
I was hoping that someone would come out and say that, that only happens if "blank" isn't set up right, or that was with older ones before something was changed. I will probably be looking at the FormaCars shifter for the mt82 pretty hard because that is a great transmission for the Coyote.

Thanks,
Jim

[Packer fan]

I could side with the "hard to shift above 6000" when the TKO 600 transmission was new. I regeared it for the .64 fifth and while I was at it, I replaced the brass synchros with the carbon fiber ones. My high RPM shift experience is in the 1st to 2nd shifting because there are very few legal places to hit 7100 on the streets in second gear. I couldn't tell much difference after the rebuild but the synchros seated and I never think about it being hard to shift above the 6000 level. I'm not sure whether it's the carbon fiber synchros or just being broken-in. I hit the rev limiter sometimes in 1st because I'm too busy watching the road to keep an eye on the tach so I shift mainly by exhaust sound. The 7100 rpms comes up fast in 1st so for me its not easy to tell the difference between 6500 and 7000 by ear.

Thanks,
That might be the answer.

Jim

[Dave Howard]

I was studying Jazzman's flip top build - beautiful craftsmanship Jazz -

Dave one of my close friends -Rob Harrison - is from Espo, born and raised!

Scott

Crazy small world moment. Espo is all of 5,000 people. Ask Rob if his fathers name is Dave. I haven’t lived there in 10+ years. I’m a North Bay resident and commute to Alberta for work. Where are you located.

I’m with you Scott on the Jazzman build. Now that’s CUSTOM work worth blogging about.

My Coyote has a BOSS intake more for show. But with a mild tune the dyno said 488 HP. It rev limits out at about 7,000 rpm. Crazy power from 3,000 to rev limit. I find my TKO 600 is a great strong 5 speed. When street cruising, I usual blow 3rd and go into 4th from 2nd. Never had a shift issue and no issues at high revs. Lots of of wheel spin in this lite car and gobbs of power.
Sounds like you have lots of experience. You’ll like the Coyote Cobra.
Cheers

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Agree with Dave.

Have the BOSS intake & a dyno tune at 477 on 93 octane. On a full run the car shifts at 7100 with the RPM limiter at 7400. You get a nice push in the back when you cross 3000/3500 at WOT.

Engine revs very quickly & will most likely put in a shift light.

Don't like looking down at the tach. One thing I do not do is shift under full power.

[Scotty's65]

I know his Father was the Stats Guy for the Sudbury Wolves for years, I'm in Ottawa and need to figure out how to update my sig line I guess.
I think ultimately the Boss intake is a better fit for the Roadster as it does give up a little low end torque to both the stock intake and the CJ but at 2300 odd lbs of Roadster low end torque equates to massive wheel spin. I raced my MKII extensively and even the old tired 5.0 h.o. I used initially spun hard through 1st and 2nd at the strip and the 'Yote makes a ton more trq so.....plus the top end charge of the Boss intake is breathtaking.

Scott

[Scotty's65]

An old pic of my MKII, sold the car a couple years ago:

[Dave Howard]

Stats guy....Dave Harrison. Know him well.

I’ve had my roadster in Ottawa. First road trip (2014) from Alberta to visit my brother is in Navan , towards Orleans. Not a touring car, but SO much fun to tour in.

I agree with everything said about the BOSS. I didn’t care about the low end torque loss. Still outrageous power, and besides, the look is a little different from all the other stock Coyotes out there.

[Misterfubar]

I got to the point in mine where I just need to hook up a few wires and start it for the first time when I had to take a hiatus from my build. It's a 2nd Gen Coyote that I put a TK600 behind and it's going in a MKIV with the new IRS. I'd read all little blips about it being a difficult install but I thought it was really smooth and easy. It is a tight fit, but I was able to get it installed by myself with just an engine hoist and the roadster on wheel dollies without taking any paint off my panels. Read the manual, but honestly I thought edwardb's build thread(and a few others) were more helpful. The manual is good and you can use only it and get the job done, but some of the build threads here really show in detail all the little nuances of installing it and make it easy.

[mike223]

One T56 issue I didn't see mentioned:

The passenger side transmission tunnel is "very" tight with the T56 - the diagonal tube where the handbrake mount is.

I did a cut + weld job on that tube for T56.

I don't think I could get the engine / transmission in straight with that tube intact (from FFR) in the Mk4.

I have no fitment info on the MT82, but I suspect similar or worse (maybe larger transmission housing).

[Erik W. Treves]

THe actual fit of the coyote is fine since FFR did a nice job in packaging... The MT82 will fit in the coupe with IRS... not so sure in the cobra.

I have installed both the 2014 and 2015+ Coyote packs... they are definitely different. Granted the application I recently did was a little outside the lines...

THe main issue with the MT82 is the shifter. It is possible but it is a lot of work for most. IF you are looking for plug a play don't do the MT82.

[Scotty's65]

https://www.blowfishracing.com/drive...t-bracket.html

This is the link for the piece that fixed my shift issue in my Mustang, for the uninitiated the problem is Ford uses a "semi-remote" shifter so the front of the shifter goes into the trans but the back is mounted to the body, in the tran tunnel. We all know engines torque when they rev and that causes mis alignment in the shift forks. The result is when you go hammer down the 1st to 2nd shift would "chunk" big time and then going across the gate from 2nd to 3rd would result in the shifter going into neutral and then getting locked out of everything - wouldn't give you any gears until you got out of the throttle, the engine straightened out and the forks realigned - not one of Ford's better ideas.

This bracket eliminates the rear shifter to body mount and hard mounts it to the transmission just like the good Lord intended. Not sure about fitment in the IV but it does keep the shifter in the stock location in my Mustang and it creates a drive shaft loop as part of the design.
Then again when a builder with Erik's experience says it's not a good trans to use due to complexity it's probably a good idea to take his advice....Erik do you have any pics of the MT82 in a coupe?

Scott

[Scotty's65]

This is what I'm looking to replicate with this build:

[mike223]

I was doing a little research on the MT82, since I hadn't heard of it.

Apparently it's got kind of a bad rep for breaking parts, for one thing.


But what really surprises me is that instead of 5th + 6th being overdrives (as in the T56 family) - 5th is actually the 1:1 "gear" in the MT82.

What you're really doing there is adding another gear before you get to 1:1 - what is 4th in the T56 / T5 / TKO families is actually 5th in the MT82.

So while you might make up most of that with an unconventional final rear end gear (maybe 2.73, is there something lower yet???), I'm not sure why anyone would do that.


My Mk4 / 393w / T56 goes through the first 3 gears as fast as I can shift it (boom, boom, boom) with a 3.15 rear gear...

The challenge is getting the shifts done (precisely) on time as not to short shift or bump the rev limiter.


So I'm not sure making putting another shift in the mix before you hit 1:1 is especially practical in this sort of a car.


Reference on MT82 gear ratios (yes, I realize they're selling T56s):

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...-56-magnum-xl/

[Scotty's65]

Hi Mike, I've been beating the MT82 in my 14 Track Pack for 60K with no issues once the blowfish bracket was installed. 450hp and 396lbs ft in a 3650 lb Mustang means no worrying about installing one in a 2400 lb Roadster.
I was simply looking at the trans since it is easy to source as part of a Coyote engine trans combination from local wreckers. Thanks for posting that excellent reference link for the ratios, my car has the optional torsen diff with a 3.73 and I can tell you that the Mustang hauls down the highway at 60-65 mph in 6th @ 2,000 delivering 30+ mpg.
I seem to recall while building my MKII that there were issues with the old T-5 but a lot of us used them with no issues.

[mike223]

450hp and 396lbs ft in a 3650 lb Mustang means no worrying about installing one in a 2400 lb Roadster.

I agree completely.



I did a little more gear calculating - a 2.73 rear gear would actually make the MT82 gear very similar to mine 1st through 5th, depending on what rev limit you want to use.


The V-8 MT82 "jump" from 5th to 6th is pretty tall.


As for fitment - to me it "eyeballs" a little plump sitting next to a T56 magnum (and I think the T56 magnum is a little "plumper" than my T56)...

[Doug @ Forma]

https://www.blowfishracing.com/drive...t-bracket.html

This is the link for the piece that fixed my shift issue in my Mustang, for the uninitiated the problem is Ford uses a "semi-remote" shifter so the front of the shifter goes into the trans but the back is mounted to the body, in the tran tunnel. We all know engines torque when they rev and that causes mis alignment in the shift forks. The result is when you go hammer down the 1st to 2nd shift would "chunk" big time and then going across the gate from 2nd to 3rd would result in the shifter going into neutral and then getting locked out of everything - wouldn't give you any gears until you got out of the throttle, the engine straightened out and the forks realigned - not one of Ford's better ideas.

This bracket eliminates the rear shifter to body mount and hard mounts it to the transmission just like the good Lord intended. Not sure about fitment in the IV but it does keep the shifter in the stock location in my Mustang and it creates a drive shaft loop as part of the design.
Then again when a builder with Erik's experience says it's not a good trans to use due to complexity it's probably a good idea to take his advice....Erik do you have any pics of the MT82 in a coupe?

Scott

Not applicable to the Mark IV. The shifter has to move to up on top of the transmission. If left in the Mustang location it's directly under your right elbow. Not really convenient.

Regarding the issues with the MT82, there are two versions. Our understanding is that the pre-2015 version has a bad reputation but the 2015 and up is much improved.

[Packer fan]

Doug,
Thanks for the tour of your place last month.
I am waiting until this summer to start my build, in part due to waiting for some of the things
you have in the works. I must say that I was very impressed with what you have done
in such a short time.

Jim

[MickHope]

Can someone point me to EdwardB post on the Coyote with the wiring diagram.

Thanks

Mick